nutpowder

for some reason i'm unable to upload images now... bikeforums seems to be not allowing me to post pics anymore? is that possible? i will log out and try again tomorrow, i have a bunch of pics to show everybody...
thanks again!

rhenning

You only have 8 posts and need 10 for posting pictures. Roger

merziac

He has pics in his very first post, so probably something to do with the "new and improved" BF.

Salamandrine 

OK, so what's the story on this bike? It's a Paramount with a special dealer head badge sticker instead of a Paramount badge.

https://bikeville.com/2011/11/28/sch...-junior-racer/

Bike racing was very big in the 30s (in the USA), and then cycling began another boom starting in the late 60s. I'm thinking that in the years from 1946 through the late 50s, Paramounts would have been produced sporadically in relatively small numbers, and it follows there may have been more production variation.

cyclotoine

Although I can't provide any help on the frame, I will point out that that is a pretty early, but not that early, record headset. You can tell by the rounded profile of the bottom of the crown race. But the upper cup having text indicated it probably dates to the late 1960s. The Cinelli stem is a 1A and possibly the first generation. if it is, it will require a 7mm hex key for the cinder bolt and have a nut for clamping the bars, small grooves in the handlebar clamp surface and a Patent number on the underside (opposite the Cinelli oval logo). If it is, it's worth a surprisingly handsome sum also, as are the earlier headsets in good shape, though this one appears to have been damaged by improper tools.

it's a nice looking frame and an interesting thread.

bnewberry

machinist42

Interesting.

(Posting one of the photos you found for all to easily see.)

bikingshearer 

FWIW, according to Velo Retro's Cinelli timeline, Cinelli stopped having the little spring hole in the right rear dropout (above the hangar, below where the axle goes) in the mid-1960s - not more specific than that. (They call it a "Campagnolo Sport derailleur spring anchor-hole.") That does provide at least an order of magnitude for a "not later than" date.

rccardr 

Well, maybe.
I just shipped a bike off for paint that had that same spring hole in a Campagnolo dropout. Estimated date of manufacture is 1982 or early 1983.

FBOATSB

2.6" or 66 mm is the hole spacing I measure on a badge similar to the one on post #13. Don't know if that dimension is the same throughout the decades.

nutpowder

the stamp on the underside of the cinelli stem says "REG N. 935126(? or 8 or 0)" i'll have to find a 7mm hex and see if that fits. what's a "record headset" - sorry for my ignorance!

i'll upload more pics as soon as bike forums lets me. for some reason i was able to post a bunch of pics but now i can't...

nutpowder

here's all the info on the bikes origins that i could find out: my uncle said he got it all together and he took it apart to restore it in the early to mid 70's but never got around to finishing the project. it has been sitting in a workshop ever since, hence the heavy amount of dust and grime and rust that has settled on it. i have a box with a bunch of parts that i'll post pics of (as soon as bike forum lets me, for some reason i was allowed to upload pics in the original post and a follow up one but now every time i try i'm told i can't post pics until i have 10 posts! this post here being my 10th will hopefully change this situation...) sadly, there was no derailer in the box but i'll keep looking for it!
thanks again for all the info, this has been an entertaining adventure for me, i had no idea what i was getting into!!!

nutpowder

lets try this again, here's a pic of the underside stamp on the cinelli.

nutpowder

i couldn't retrieve PM's until now!! i haven't been hassled too much...

nutpowder

chain says "brampton france"






finally found some time to post the pics of everything else that came with the frame so here you go:

nutpowder

and here's some more!

nutpowder

and my favorite item, the helmet...
i'm looking for the derailer but i don't think it's around anymore.
don't know if any of these additional pics help date or id the frame but it's all i've got.
thanks again!

trainman999

nutpowder Those pictures help a lot we now know it is not a Paramount or a Wastyn, BB would be 1.370 x 24. Your BB 35 x 1 is either French or Swiss ( see if the fixed cup will thread into the left side of the bottom bracket, yes French threads, no Swiss) 26.6 seat post, it is probably made of metric tubing if you have a set of calipers you can measure the OD of the seat tube, 28.0 metric, 28.6 Imperial. Also take a lock nut off the front wheel there is a date stamped in the inner face. You just eliminated most Us and British makers. You are getting closer to knowing who made it.

cyclotoine

Wow, 3/16" ball BB and "no record" hubs = list of older parts builds up. Glad to see you have the lower headset cup too. Nice kit.

pastorbobnlnh 

+1 I spotted the sizes on the BB cup and the seat post and we can now say with 100% certainty, not a Paramount.

Needless to say the mystery deepens on this fine frame and the Campy components which accompanied it! We'll probably never be able to determine why it was decaled as a Schwinn Paramount. It might be the time to start a new thread titled something like "I.D. this Mystery French Frameset which has Schwinn Decals." I'm guessing many folks who know a great deal about French and Swiss frames see "Paramount" in the current title and have no interest, and therefore, haven't taken a look.

Salamandrine 

Yep. That BB cup does indicate a great deal. Next question: Is the fixed cup left hand or right hand threads?

It would seem to be narrowed down to a French, Swiss, or possibly Belgian frame. (edit: or Swedish?) That's a lot of bikes to consider. As the most unusual feature is the rather striking fork crown, that is probably the key to identifying it. The rest of the bike has relatively common features.

I suppose if it turns out to be left/Swiss, there is at least a very small possibility that the BB could have been re-tapped from BSC at some point. It does happen, though it is rare. Perhaps we can now say with only 99.936% certainty. Hmm, wait, Wastyn was Belgian right? Maybe his second cousin Eddy back in Bruges or somewhere built it?

Salamandrine 

RH threads look like this: outside of cup---> [\\\\

LH threads look like this: outside of cup---> [////

Salamandrine 

PS

Why is there a Stronglight adjustable cup in the background? Are we sure that this BB goes with this frame? Or are these just a bunch of parts that came with it? Could have been a few parts from another bike that the original owner wanted to swap over, but never got around to it because the BB didn't fit. Which would bring the identity question back to the start.

machinist42

And does that seatpost fit the frame's seattube?

seedsbelize 

Great thread