Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

1981 Nishiki International frame geometry?

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

1981 Nishiki International frame geometry?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-12-18, 03:51 PM
  #1  
TallRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
1981 Nishiki International frame geometry?

I have a 1981 Nishiki International (dated by @T-Mar method), and am curious of the geometry. Based on the 1981 Nishiki catalog, this was when the International name was applied to a budget light-touring model. Double-butted tubing, though not particularly light. The 25" frame size weighs 7.6 pounds for frame+fork+headset. I have the "Lake Blue" color.
I'd love to find geometry listing for the bike, particularly the tube angles, fork rake and trail (I can measure everything else easily). The catalog that someone posted on Flickr doesn't have geometry. Curious if anyone knows for this bike, or for another touring-focused International in a nearby year. Here are the dimensions that I measured:

* chainstay and wheelbase measured with rear axle positioned by spacer in the horizontal dropout




Last edited by TallRider; 05-12-18 at 04:21 PM. Reason: add frame measurements
TallRider is offline  
Old 05-12-18, 04:27 PM
  #2  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times in 1,874 Posts
Since you have the frame, why not just measure it? Even if it was available, company supplied figures for this era would often be for only a single, mid-sized frame and would not necessarily be representative of larger and smaller frames.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 05-12-18, 04:38 PM
  #3  
TallRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
Since you have the frame, why not just measure it? Even if it was available, company supplied figures for this era would often be for only a single, mid-sized frame and would not necessarily be representative of larger and smaller frames.
True. I guess with this frame I can assume horizontal top tube and just measure the angle between top tube and seat tube, and top tube with head tube.
Or put on wheels with same tire size, and buy a digital angle finder (not much more expensive than a protractor).
Thanks for pointing this out - I should have thought of it.
TallRider is offline  
Old 05-12-18, 04:39 PM
  #4  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,280

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Measuring from the photo using an app, I get 72º for the seat tube and 73º head tube angle. Perfect for an audax bike with a Brooks saddle.

You should be able to measure the rake yourself, since you have the frame in front of you. If you can get a broomstick or something through the steer tube, measure the offset from the center of that to the center of where the front axle would be. Or carefully align a yardstick to the center of the head tube / steer tube steering axis, and measure from that. Use an online app to calculate the trail.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 05-12-18, 04:42 PM
  #5  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,280

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
If you have a smart phone, there are apps to turn it into a protractor or angle finder.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 05-12-18, 05:52 PM
  #6  
TallRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Measuring from the photo using an app, I get 72º for the seat tube and 73º head tube angle. Perfect for an audax bike with a Brooks saddle.
You should be able to measure the rake yourself, since you have the frame in front of you. If you can get a broomstick or something through the steer tube, measure the offset from the center of that to the center of where the front axle would be. Or carefully align a yardstick to the center of the head tube / steer tube steering axis, and measure from that. Use an online app to calculate the trail.
If you have a smart phone, there are apps to turn it into a protractor or angle finder.
I had bought an angle measure on Amazon, then canceled the order when I realized I could do it (repeatably) with a smartphone app.
I got 73.0 degrees for the seat angle, and 73.7 degrees for the head angle. A bit more aggressive than I expected, and doesn't fit with the "touring" designation where they classified the bike at the time.
(Note that this is in the large frame size with 61cm top tube, so I'm still not worried about toe overlap)

I'll see about measuring the rake tomorrow.
TallRider is offline  
Old 05-13-18, 03:06 PM
  #7  
TallRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
In addition to the 73.7 degree head angle, the fork rake is about 6.2 cm. When combined with 33mm tires, this produces a trail figure of 37mm. So fairly low-trail. Maybe the bike is well-suited for a front rack and randonneur handlebar bag.
TallRider is offline  
Old 05-13-18, 04:40 PM
  #8  
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,759
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 14 Posts
I have a hard time believing your tt measurement as I’ve owned numerous 25” nishikis including an ‘81 comp II and 2 ~83_84 international and have handled dozens more and the tt is always 58 +/-1cm
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline  
Old 07-24-18, 01:39 PM
  #9  
TallRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclotoine
I have a hard time believing your tt measurement as I’ve owned numerous 25” nishikis including an ‘81 comp II and 2 ~83_84 international and have handled dozens more and the tt is always 58 +/-1cm
The top tube is definitely between 60.5 and 61 cm. I also measured an older (around 1973) Nishiki in a local guy's garage, which had a similarly long head tube. Maybe they had some continuity in the International model having a longer head tube.
TallRider is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 09:49 AM
  #10  
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,759
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by TallRider
The top tube is definitely between 60.5 and 61 cm. I also measured an older (around 1973) Nishiki in a local guy's garage, which had a similarly long head tube. Maybe they had some continuity in the International model having a longer head tube.
Top tube measurement is from the center of the seat-tube to the center of the head tube. Are you measuring the full width of the head and seat tubes in your measurement?
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 03:09 PM
  #11  
TallRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclotoine
Top tube measurement is from the center of the seat-tube to the center of the head tube. Are you measuring the full width of the head and seat tubes in your measurement?
Center to center, like any top tube measurement. And this is a large frame from 1981, so it's a horizontal top tube (so no mucking around with measuring effective top tube).
The longish top tube was why I bought the frame. I wouldn't have bought a 59, and wouldn't have even considered a 58.
TallRider is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
antontoni
Framebuilders
8
10-24-17 05:32 AM
Stickney
Road Cycling
5
07-30-10 08:35 PM
Stickney
Framebuilders
2
07-30-10 07:48 AM
sprocket47
Bicycle Mechanics
11
05-22-10 06:57 AM
big_heineken
Classic & Vintage
25
12-30-09 02:51 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.