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Addiction 2021.4

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Addiction 2021.4

Old 11-03-21, 09:36 PM
  #5101  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
No offense, but that's too high.

If you're going to do some workouts on Zwift, do an FTP test first, you can start with the Ramp Test, and then don't go jumping in to the deep end. Maybe try some of the base-building plans until you get a better feel for things.

not offended. I know when I saw the 258 setting it didn’t look right but I just went with it.
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Old 11-03-21, 11:27 PM
  #5102  
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
Also, How the hell do you do just a flat course? I picked watopia, and a route that said very little elevation change. I spent 30 mins climbing.
In Watopia, both Tick Tock and Tempus Fugit are really flat. Like, 2% maximum. Mostly between + and - 1%.

If you want to look at route profiles, check out Zwiftinsider.com 's "Route Maps And Details", which provides a profile and a description of each.
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Old 11-03-21, 11:34 PM
  #5103  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Some of them have "Flat" or "Hilly" or similar in the name, but you can always look at the course info - they all have distance and elevation gain.

Oh, and maybe it was just me, but I feel like the boardwalk planks and the gravel roads also slow you down quite a bit (too much, maybe), at least on a road bike.
Yeah, that's how it's set up. Some of the routes are largely "dirt" and benefit from at least a gravel bike, if not a mountain bike. It's a little silly, I think, but it does provide some variety. But if you try a mountain bike on the road, you'll be slow as hell. Also slow - the Zwift Steel bike and the Classic Wheels. Zwift Insider and others have periodic reviews of the fastest bikes available on Zwift, which the test by feeding Zwift a constant power and time the bike over a segment.

Of course the one thing they DON'T have in Zwift is real cornering, which means you can descend as fast as your weight and aerodynamic profile can go, without worrying about braking. And if you get up over 36mph and stop pedaling, you'll go into Supertuck, and you can go refill a bottle or grab a snack. Hell, on a long descent, maybe go for a leak!
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Old 11-03-21, 11:36 PM
  #5104  
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
yea, that is dumb. I experienced that too, and I even tried to dial it up a little bit to get my speed going and accelerate was dismal, so I stopped trying.

I think I’ve been getting bummed about my mileage but the important thing is I am on the bike and moving. I don’t agree with all the metrics from wahoo. It’s interesting If I run my wahoo through my head unit the data seems to be closer to what I am used to seeing on the road vs the make believe of zwift.

ERG is brutal. I had toto turn it off today half through the first interval session. It got to the point out of the saddle I could not pedal. Was suppose to maintain 765 for 20 seconds. I got to like 712 and all of a sudden I couldn’t pedal. Weird. Or I am just weak, prefer weird.
Death spiral. In Erg mode, it tries to keep the power constant, so if you slow your cadence down, it increases the resistance, and if you're unable to put out that power at that cadence and slow down some more, it will keep increasing the resistance till you grind to a halt.

What the hell kind of workout are you doing, anyhow?
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Old 11-03-21, 11:53 PM
  #5105  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Question for the Zwifters: do you get the same experience points for these big group training rides as you do for regular solo rides (30XP/mile, IIRC)?

I was just looking through Strava and saw some rides with 100+ people and average speeds in the region of 25mph. Seems like a flat course in a big ol' peloton would be a good way to rack up miles and XP.
AFAIK, you get 30 XP/mile automatically. Under some circumstances you get more, like if you got a 'Ride On' or such.

You also accumulate 'Drops' which is the currency of Zwift. Ride with one of the Pace Partners and the longer your ride with them, the higher the ratio of drops/mile gets, up to like 1.6.
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Old 11-03-21, 11:59 PM
  #5106  
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Also, whatsonzwift.com has descriptions of each of the workouts on Zwift.

Oh! And trying to do a 10 second, 700+W segment on Erg mode is a problem. It usually takes about 3 seconds for the resistance to come all the way up, which means if you suddenly try to hit 700+ when you get to the gate, you'll spin like a crazed weasel for a couple seconds before you bog down, then if you manage to get to the end gate, it takes 3 seconds for resistance to come back down, so you can't just stop pedaling no matter how gassed you are.

The Companion App allows you to turn Erg mode on and off within a workout, as well as to reduce your FTP bias, and skip to the next section of the workout.
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Old 11-04-21, 12:07 AM
  #5107  
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ATTN: Velo Vol

Ibrahim Maalouf was sitting in with the band on Stephen Colbert, I dunno if they'll put anything up on YouTube but the bumpers are pretty hot.
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Old 11-04-21, 12:37 AM
  #5108  
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And Thundercat killed it, unfortunately Ibrahim didn't sit in on that song.
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Old 11-04-21, 04:19 AM
  #5109  
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
My headset feels loose when I am on the trainer but when I take it off and do the break test I don’t feel anything.

Only feels loose when I am cranking out massive amount of Watts. MASSIVE.
My trainer bike does that too. It actually knocks if I'm out of the saddle climbing. I went as far as to assemble the entire bike. Check the headset, take it outside and ride it. Then pull the wheel put it on the trainer....still knocks when climbing.
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Old 11-04-21, 04:25 AM
  #5110  
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Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
Now here’s a typical example of undernourishment. For lunch today I had a sausage sandwich. Im topping that off with some yogurt followed by some pear sauce. Normally that would hold me till dinner. But if I want to gain a little weight maybe I should make it two sausage sandwiches, or maybe a half a chicken.
Beer, beer is the answer.
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Old 11-04-21, 05:02 AM
  #5111  
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
So if I wanted to do intervals, using a power and time should I keep under 400? 500?

example 3 mins at 150 followed by 30 seconds of 350?

Im new to the interval thing. Obviously I have no idea what I am doing.
Get on a prescribed, multi-week, off-season program, of which Zwift has many, and avoid the heroic workouts.
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Old 11-04-21, 05:07 AM
  #5112  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Not in my experience.
Compare the power/time plots in Intervals.com. If they’re nearly identical, you’re right and very good.

Last edited by MoAlpha; 11-04-21 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 11-04-21, 05:40 AM
  #5113  
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Good morning everyone, including rjones28 and Gravelrider.
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol View Post
People here don't get it.
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Old 11-04-21, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
ATTN: Velo Vol

Ibrahim Maalouf was sitting in with the band on Stephen Colbert, I dunno if they'll put anything up on YouTube but the bumpers are pretty hot.
The bumpers usually only last a few seconds.
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol View Post
People here don't get it.
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Old 11-04-21, 05:52 AM
  #5115  
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
not offended. I know when I saw the 258 setting it didn’t look right but I just went with it.
I would be super pleased with an FTP of 258. Last time I checked mine it was about 180. Sad.
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Old 11-04-21, 06:04 AM
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In other words, you need to ramp up to stress like that.
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Old 11-04-21, 06:20 AM
  #5117  
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
So if I wanted to do intervals, using a power and time should I keep under 400? 500?

example 3 mins at 150 followed by 30 seconds of 350?

Im new to the interval thing. Obviously I have no idea what I am doing.

Seems you're new to intervals and Zwift....

Get to know Zwift a little before diving into the structured stuff. Some of the easy ways to do this are to join a few variable w/Kg group rides or join the 2.5W/Kg pace partner. You'll get a sense of the terrain and the dynamics.

You can certainly do a ramp test for FTP, but personally, I've never liked those. I prefer doing the Innsbruck Climb or a Crit City race. Zwift will compute your FTP from your best 20 Min effort. So then just lower your Zwift FTP and go ride a bunch.

Zwift also has training plans that you can follow. But you need to know what you want to accomplish with the training. Better sprint? Ability to ride 3 hrs, Just push up FTP a little. That will influence what intervals and when. But as Laj has mentioned, this time of year is not really the best time for intensity. Get some hours at Z2 for now. Figure out what your goals are. Add intensity as the new year rolls around.

Last edited by mvnsnd; 11-04-21 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 11-04-21, 06:41 AM
  #5118  
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so I did do the ramp test, the first day. I had it connected to both my garmin head unit and zwift. What I didn’t know is that the garmin head unit took charge of the wahoo and zwift was in standby.

So what I mean by that, my rider moved in zwift but the resistance stayed the same on hills and flat ground.

The garmin unit had it set to 1 percent resistance.

Anyways at the end of the ramp test it bumped my ftp to 230.
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Old 11-04-21, 06:53 AM
  #5119  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Death spiral. In Erg mode, it tries to keep the power constant, so if you slow your cadence down, it increases the resistance, and if you're unable to put out that power at that cadence and slow down some more, it will keep increasing the resistance till you grind to a halt.

What the hell kind of workout are you doing, anyhow?
This. Keep cadence up in ERG mode as best you can or at least constant. ( remember power is essentially force * Cadence ) One thing to try to see how it works with your trainer is to keep a constant cadence and let the system adapt power for you. It take a second or two, but may help. For big power swings like Z1 or Z2 to Z4, it helps to change a gear or change cadence in the first few seconds of the interval on the way up and the way down.

But also Zwift will disengage ERG if you just stop pedaling. It will resume ERG mode shortly after you start pedaling again and should tell you so.
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Old 11-04-21, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
so I did do the ramp test, the first day. I had it connected to both my garmin head unit and zwift. What I didn’t know is that the garmin head unit took charge of the wahoo and zwift was in standby.

So what I mean by that, my rider moved in zwift but the resistance stayed the same on hills and flat ground.

The garmin unit had it set to 1 percent resistance.

Anyways at the end of the ramp test it bumped my ftp to 230.
Your first few tests on the trainer are going to provide underestimates because you're not used to the mechanics and sensory feedback. Ride for a few weeks and try again. You may be pleased...or not, because all your workouts will get harder.
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Old 11-04-21, 06:58 AM
  #5121  
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Someone just liked a 5+ year old post of mine in the touring photos thread. Amazed when I think of people scrolling that far back in threads.
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Old 11-04-21, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bampilot06 View Post
so I did do the ramp test, the first day. I had it connected to both my garmin head unit and zwift. What I didn’t know is that the garmin head unit took charge of the wahoo and zwift was in standby.

So what I mean by that, my rider moved in zwift but the resistance stayed the same on hills and flat ground.

The garmin unit had it set to 1 percent resistance.

Anyways at the end of the ramp test it bumped my ftp to 230.

If Garmin kept your trainer at 1%, did you go through the steps at 1 minute increasing intervals of the ramp test? Have a link to the ramp test session?

A 230W ftp from a ramp test indicates you ramped up to about 310 Watts for 1 min. Does that sound right?
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Old 11-04-21, 07:07 AM
  #5123  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
In Watopia, both Tick Tock and Tempus Fugit are really flat. Like, 2% maximum. Mostly between + and - 1%.

If you want to look at route profiles, check out Zwiftinsider.com 's "Route Maps And Details", which provides a profile and a description of each.

thank you this is what I have been looking for. I kept trying to do zone 2 rides and ended up climbing. I was looking at distance and elevation. And all of the longer routes have elevation, so I was trying to pick the one with the most distance and least elevation.

As soon as I would start on elevation my heart rate would spike.
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Old 11-04-21, 07:09 AM
  #5124  
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Originally Posted by mvnsnd View Post
If Garmin kept your trainer at 1%, did you go through the steps at 1 minute increasing intervals of the ramp test? Have a link to the ramp test session?

A 230W ftp from a ramp test indicates you ramped up to about 310 Watts for 1 min. Does that sound right?




I kept the power where it told me too.
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Old 11-04-21, 07:10 AM
  #5125  
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Originally Posted by mvnsnd View Post
But also Zwift will disengage ERG if you just stop pedaling. It will resume ERG mode shortly after you start pedaling again and should tell you so.
Huh, that's helpful. I haven't seen this happen - I assume that it takes the time for your average cadence to zero out?
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