cxwrench

I can barely get the packing material off a new bike in 15mins.

Sy Reene

Not sure. How does the distributor determine pecking order on which shop(s) to ship product to first?

urbanknight

I guess my point was that the mechanics are rarely just sitting around with nothing to do, so any extra assignments has to be covered by either pushing the waitlist back or giving out extra hours.

livedarklions

Disagreement is fine as long as we keep it mutually respectful.

​​​​​​He's actually saying that there's actually adding more hours of labor needed when you take on more low-margin work. I haven't seen any of the pros on this thread state that they would turn away the installation job, just that they're not going to source the parts themselves from other retailers. This makes a bit of sense from the labor end of things as it's clearly something that would take them more time than just having you find and bring in the part yourself, and the employee who would actually be spending that time will either be drawn away from some other tasks that would likely be more lucrative, or putting in more hours that will have to be compensated by the employer. This online shopping is essentially a new function that hasn't been figured into the "fixed" labor costs.

Different reason that's not labor-related--as pointed out above, from a legal standpoint, reselling
the part obtained from the retailer to a consumer makes the lbs a link in the chain of distribution. Any link can be held liable for damages caused by a defective product. Generally, if the shop is installing a part the consumer brought in, it can disclaim any warranty of the integrity of the part, only certifying the quality of their own labor. I've had both bike and car mechanics make this disclaimer explicit when I've sourced my own parts.

urbanknight

When you do it over and over again day in/day out for a job, you get really fast at it, and that's about the average time my boss expected me to take (a little less for single speed/kids bikes, sometimes a little more if a bike had a major issue, which was rare). Remember the bikes come mostly assembled, and getting it onto the showroom floor doesn't include adjusting seat height, stem height, cleat position, etc. which are much more meticulous.

Koyote

Labor, esp if paid by the hour, is virtually always a variable cost. If it takes your mechanic two hours to build a new bike at $20/hour, that adds $40 to the bike's marginal cost. That's how paid labor works.

I'm not sure why, since you're the person who doesn't understand that the selling price of something minus the cost of acquiring it equals marginal profit.

cxwrench

After nearly 30 years I'm reasonably quick. That said I don't build many Rockhoppers or kids bikes. Most of my builds are upper end mountain bikes, Specialized and Santa Cruz, and custom stuff. Not happening in 15mins.

urbanknight

Don't know what to say. Funny though, TPC used to advertise that any rider could assemble their bike in "15 minutes or less" but they now just say "in minutes". I bought a bike from TPC last year and did indeed assemble it in about 20 minutes (I'm a little rusty and no longer have a shop owner breathing down my neck). Now the time I spent meticulously swapping the saddle, setting up the saddle angle and position, adjusting the stem height, swapping the handlebar, and rewrapping the handlebar went way beyond that, but those things are not required to get a bike on the showroom floor.

Here's a source that still mentions their time quote.
https://www.endurancesportswire.com/...owned-for-all/

unterhausen

TPC takes apart pre-owned bikes, probably working fine, and ships them. A new bike is nothing like that.

The thing that all the people who insist that "profit is profit" don't seem to understand is that retail margins have a long history. People think they can discount from them and still stay in business at their peril. Virtually everything you buy at a retail store has the same margins. It doesn't matter if it's at Walmart or Target or the local mom and pop store. I imagine Amazon has similar or better margins when they sell their own stock, although a lot of their business is logistics.

Koyote

I hope that you're not referring to me and my posts...Because if you are, then you have completely misunderstood them -- as has wheelreason , and I will ask you to re-read posts 50 and 54. All I have ever said about it, in this thread, is that profit comes from selling an object (like a bike) at any price greater than its marginal cost. I have specifically stated that this doesn't mean it is sensible to always do so, especially at a small margin or if one wants to avoid becoming a known discount seller.

If you're not referring to me, then never mind.

cxwrench

Those TPC bikes have already been assembled, the disassembly done to ship them is very minor. That's not even close to building a new bike, especially a Santa Cruz. What you're doing with a TPC bike is not even close to 'assembly'. Wheels, bars, post, pedals. Done. A new SC full suspension bike comes out of the box with the bb and crank installed...that's it. Not even the derailleur hanger or shock are installed on the majority of them.

urbanknight

I have been out of the game for quite a while now (about 25 years), so maybe they have changed how bikes are pre-assembled and shipped (I doubt it), but that's exactly how they came to the shop I worked at. The frame has the rear wheel and drivetrain already on with the handlebar assembly, seatpost & saddle, and front wheel zip tied to it with some foam in between. I opened the top of the box, lifted the whole thing out, put the seatpost/saddle in, clamped it to the work stand, put the handlebar assembly on (most of the bikes back then had quill stems, but I would adjust if threadless), put the front wheel on, adjusted the shifting and brakes if needed, checked the fasteners and wheels, and hung a price tag on it. Cables were left full length until it was sold and then cut only if the customer required it. These were generally low to mid level offerings (mostly MTB, hybrid, and BMX) from Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, and GT.

Perhaps cxwrench goes a bit further with his high end bikes like checks the lube on the bearings or trues the wheels more precisely (my manager wanted them safe for a test ride and that was about it), or maybe can tell us if new bikes are shipped less assembled than they used to be.

FWIW not only is that how my TPC bike was shipped to me, but it's also how my friend's department store bike was shipped to her a few years ago.

urbanknight

Maybe high end bikes come less pre-assembled or things have just changed drastically since about 25 years ago, because "wheels, bars, post, pedals. Done" was exactly how the bikes I assembled came. Most of them were low to mid range MTBs and hybrids with Altus and Alivio components, Tourney for road bikes. I would occasionally get assigned to build a MTB with Deore or XT/XTR, but those also came shipped the same way. Full suspension was somewhat of a novelty back then, so I never touched them as the head mechanic insisted on handling the rare delivery of those.

edit: And it was funny that you mentioned Rockhoppers, because I did indeed build a ton of those back then.

urbanknight

These basically show how bikes came in the shop I worked at. I really think many people on this forum forget that the typical bike shop isn't selling high end Santa Cruz and custom bikes, but rather mostly entry and mid level bikes that the average consumer will ride mostly stock for as long as they own it.

Trek

Cannondale

Specialized

prj71

Funny how all of these online retailers have parts but the bike shops can't get them from their distributors. Why is that?

If I buy the parts online and bring them to the bike shop for installation. It's cheaper that way.

The bike shop markup on parts is ALWAYS higher than what I can buy them for online so I never get parts through the bike shop.

Koyote

That's only because your LBS doesn't bother selling the $20 dick-pouch jerseys:



But for the same items, I typically find that my LBS charges lower prices, and always provides better service, than online sellers.

bblair

My parts are expected to arrive today or tomorrow.

I have no idea what the shop's hourly rate is, nor how long install should take. Given that, why don't they just order from Performance/Excelsports/Jenson/Colorado Cyclist et al and make up the difference with labor charges? Anyone can check online prices of pieces in a minute, but no one can lookup skill or expertise or shop rates.

I can check what store might charge for an alternator or water pump, but I only care what my car mechanic charges me in total. I have never asked what their rates are because I can't do that stuff myself. Maybe they have a supplier, or maybe they drive down the street to AutoZone. The owner just bought a house in my neighborhood and it's much bigger than mine, so he must have something figured out. Good for him.

Koyote

I think the lesson here is that different bikes (types and mfrs) come in different states of assembly, and some bikes (e.g., full suspension MTBs) involve inherently more assembly work.

Another factor is the shop's ethos: at my fave LBS, even the fairly low-end (e.g., $1,000) bikes are examined and adjusted in far more depth than at most other shops. For instance, they will closely examine wheels (true-ness and spoke tensions) on every bike, check derailleur hanger alignment, etc.

urbanknight

I will admit that my boss was only concerned with the bike being safe to test ride and shift into all gears, but it certainly seems like different brands have different levels of preassembly.

prj71

I have 4 local bike shops...Trek, Specialized, Giant and Pivot.

If I price a cassette, chain, brake pads, chain rings or other parts from them, they are always $5-$20 more than I can buy online from Amazon, Jenson, Universal Cycle, E-bay or many other sources. So I buy online and bring them in when I don't have the time to work on the bike.

mstateglfr 

Wow, even rocking some Rapha socks.

Koyote

I can handle cassettes and brake pads and such myself -- but if I couldn't, I wouldn't waste my time with all that just to save $5-$20. I'd just drop off the bike and have the shop handle it all. But then, I'm a spendthrift -- I just got a couple new Rapha jerseys.

Which means the socks probably cost more than the jersey...And they fit better, too. No sixth toe. (Note: that's not me in the pic. I think it's WhyFi , who actually bought that monstrosity just as an experiment.)

dedhed

What I found is the waste of my time is the drop bike at LBS and return at a later time to pick it up, I can order and install something myself and save both time and money doing it that way.


Any auto mechanic comparisons are really apples & oranges as auto shops generally bill you according to "book time" for a given normal task and all shops use the same book.I don;t know that there is such a thing for bicycles.

urbanknight

I tried to mention that but didn't know the term "book time". When I worked in a shop, regular things like tube changes, cable changes, brake pad replacements, "tune ups", etc. had a fixed labor price. Anything custom was done at an hourly rate, though those jobs were rare at that shop.

big john

Retired auto mechanic here. Last 30 years of my career were at new car dealerships. Labor charges are really random, depending on how hungry the tech is or how greedy the advisor is. Some of the service advisors overcharge customers so much it's embarrassing to even be involved with them.

Techs in my area get between 15 and 25% of the labor charged and the advisors get a smaller percentage. My old shop was at $228 per hour last time I went by.