t2p

Shimano 11 speed chain is more durable than Shimano 9 speed chain

Racing Dan

All Im saying is, CUES does not solve any existing problems with cross compatibility. Its an entirely new line up that is, apparently, only compatible with itself (CUES / linkglide) and doesn't have Any road components. Thus roadies or "gravelers" cant access the (claimed) more durable chain and cassettes or the expanded gear range. You may think of this as a "problem" or not, but from a road/gravel perspective nothing has changed thus far.

icemilkcoffee 

The chain itself is strong enough. The weakest link is the re-useable link. It loosens the more you use it. And the 11 speed links, due to the thin plates, apparently loosen sooner.

sjanzeir

What Shimano are saying is that CUES is for the everyday/lifestyle rider - i. e. the "lesser" beings who just want to enjoy riding their bikes with the least amount of trouble and don't take their cycling seriously enough to think of distinct disciplines and the finer points of gravel vs. MTB. What they're saying is, you want dedicated gravel, here's GRX. You want dedicated road, here's 105<Ultegra<Dura-Ace. You want dedicated MTB, here's LX/XT/XTR. Just do your thing and let everybody else enjoy their CUES.

sjanzeir

Strikes me as more of a First-world problem than an actual cycling issue. With all due respect, if you're hinging your entire cycling experience on a chain quick link, then I wonder how a flat tire makes you feel!

PeteHski

Yep, as shown in these test results

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/chaintesting/

PeteHski

That's never been an issue for me. Also note that the Shimano quick-links are not designed to be re-usable. So yes they loosen the more you split the chain. There are aftermarket links that are designed to be re-usable. I carry a couple of those in my pocket, which I've never had to use in anger.

Maelochs

It makes all MTB drive train parts compatible with each other which previously (since whenever I thhnk Shadow derailleurs came in for ten and eleven? Brain small, history big.)

Still Could include road parts ... I have to think Shimano might consider a similar revision there, but I don't know, of course.

Maelochs

This makes sense. Shimano now dumps Altus/ Acero/ Whatever into Cues and can sell it at every price point .... and can still keep a "super-secret, ultra-special" high-end line or two to soak the racers.

Cues is now a single assembly/manufacture process instead of several, and and copy can now say "Cues 8" or "Cues 10" instead of using a meaningless name.

Or ... maybe something else.

PeteHski

Considering these are all low-end groupsets, I'm surprised anyone really cares about their cross-compatibility. It must be a relatively small market for mixing and matching this kind of stuff anyway. CUES sounds like a logical step to simplify their product range while bringing it more up to date. Most of this stuff will be sold on OEM bikes and never be modified.

sjanzeir

There. You've already cleared your own bewilderment. What this all means is that it makes cycling simpler and more approachable to Joe and Jane Average by removing a big chunk of the guesswork, research, and confusion, making it less costly and intimidating, while also giving the Averages something to aspire to in whichever discipline they choose to take as they progress. The wealthy superhumans and zero-body-fat racers already have their own, higher-tier product lines to play with. Everybody wins.

PeteHski

I doubt Joe Average buying a bike from the shop to ride casually cares about the groupset tier or its compatibility, as long as it functions as sold. I was thinking it was more of an issue for Shimano and bike shops in having so many differing low-end group sets.

sjanzeir

Well, obviously that, too, but there's a good chance that Jane and Joe might become more interested in upgrading as soon as they learn more about the sport and start finding out just how easy and affordable it is to upgrade from nine- to 10- and 11-speed. And you can imagine what they might move on to from there. Even if this whole CUES thing gets less than one percent of the population interested in the sport, it's still a good thing.

Maelochs

I am thinking of the folks who cvome here asking "What bike should I buy?" Trying to recall (or learn) which made-up Shimano name indicates which level of refinement must make it hard for salesmen, as well, to push a product: "This model has Acero, but this one has Alivio!" "Can't modern medicine cure those conditions?"

Racing Dan

Adding one more line of unicorn products is reducing, not adding to, the confusion? Im not buying it. That's like claiming one more proprietary bottom bracket standard would do the same. Rather/Probably its a dick move to lock in OEMs and consumers to complete Shimano drive trains that isn't compatible with any 3rd party shifter, RD or cassette.
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sjanzeir

Not sure how a product line that'll likely cover at least 50 percent of the market could possibly be a unicorn but here's a question - what is it that makes you think that third-party manufacturers won't get the chance to license the living daylights out of this? Do you realistically see the possibility of not being able to buy a KMC chain or a Sunrace cassette for your future CUES-equipped touring bike?

Maelochs

Pretty sure they cannot license cog spacing .... so anyone could make cassettes. As for derailleurs they are controlled by the shifters. I also don't see how Shimano could trademark cable pull ratios, so anyone who wanted (Microshift, etc) Could make compatible systems.

I am not sure Microshift would try to move in ... They already have complete lines of 8-11 speed road and MTB gruppos, and I am pretty sure these are cheaper options for companies who want to offer budget builds (I think someone above mentioned that Cannondale's Topstone, at its lower level, came with Microshift---the stuff is good quality.) Microshift is already successfully competing as an alternative to Shimano at the levels CUES will cover---off-road at least.

As far as trying to produce products which give your company an edge on the competition being a "dick" move ... again, it is clear which people have never run a business,.

"Man, the people who own that restaurant are complete dicks. They hired better cooks and updated the menu, and now serve better food than the competition, so everyone who wants really good food has to eat there. What total dicks."

sjanzeir

To a (thankfully and hopefully) small minority of people, being in business at all is a dick move, but that's a topic for the P&R section.

Jughed

Not to go to far off topic...

I'm looking at hardtail MTB's for my son, not wanting to spend a ton as he will quickly outgrow it. Many of the bikes in the 5-700 range come with Microshift stuff. I have zero experience with these things. Are they at least 1/2 way decent?

Maelochs

In my mostly ignorant opinion .... yes. Microshift has been around for a good while and has never releases a bad product. I bought their cheapest 7-speed brifters for a vintage Cannondale and I find them to be every bit as good as the Shimano Claris they replaced. The throw is a little longer but they also have a button shifter so the brake lever only shifts one way---how they beat Shimano's patent. I got their worst, and and old model at that, and find it on par with Shimano. Lots of people have a lot more experience and I have yet to hear a bad review (having posted this, we will hear thousands.)

I am not sure about weight compared to Shimano, because I don't race, but as far as function goes, I trust Microshift. I have never used their 11-speed stuff either, and I don't know how it compares to say, 105 (which I love ... .) but their lower end stuff is, for me, a direct replacement option for Shimano.

Same old story. A bunch of very talented Chinese engineers, unable to get hired at any big firms, started their own company. They bought Shimano derailleurs, tore them apart, reverse-engineered them, figured out how to dodge trademarks, and brought to market a decent alternative. Lots of Chinese engineers do this ... most fold the companies every couple years and restart, but any company which lasts five years or so, is generally pretty reliable.

Bikes aren't rocket science ... but even so China can build rockets. I despise the ruling regime but I have met a whole lot of ingenious Chinese multiple-degree post-grads ... "Made in China" includes a lot of Ali-Express "Chinarello" crap but it also includes some solid merchandise.

I think you would be taking good care of your son if you bought him Microshift-equipped bikes. We might disagree on Bike Forum occasionally, but I would never try to poison your relationship with your son ... I am very petty, but even I have limits. I don't think you would be doing him wrong.

smd4

I thank God every day for my Dura Ace 7700 groupset.

The only fault I see here is the stupid name Shimano came up with. "CUES?" Really? Makes me hungry for some reason. You guys used to be so much better at naming things.

sjanzeir

They should've named them 101 through 104. That would've made things easier to follow.

Jughed

Thanks!!

Weight isn't an issue - just general durability & repairability. I am constantly fixing his current MTB that has cheap Shimano stuff - he is brutal on his bikes/dirtbikes... I just didn't want anything worse than the stuff he already has.

mstateglfr 

I have yet to experience a weak 11sp chain. All my 11sp chains on all my 11sp bikes have lasted long enough for me to not have any idea when I even put them on...which is plenty long enough for me to feel I got my value out of them.
You do you and all, but why is chain durability the line in the sand? An 11sp chain is like $35 and lasts thousands and thousands of miles. It seems like such a minor thing to base a decision on, especially when you consider the 11sp chain isnt weak to begin with.

mstateglfr 

Microshift Advent and Advent X are both really good quality 1x shifting systems that are Microshift specific. Good value there and these are used on some OEM bikes now too.

If your kid is brutal on his bikes, nothing is going to last/perform well. Thats just the reality of how things are used.