thook

my black B17 is looking dull and kinda faded. i've used some kiwi polish here and there, but it always looks dull/matte pretty quick afterward. so, i started looking into redyeing it and read somewhere painting it was a better, more durable approach. i'm kinda reluctant towards that. don't want to damage the leather. what would you leather saddle pro's recommended to get it nicely black and shiny, again?

thanks!

Bad Lag

Black dye, but I am not a pro just a Joe.

thook

lol...well, you don't have to be a pro to share experience. so, have you had good results dyeing leather without it also staining your pants?

merziac

Go talk to the shoe repair guys, see if they will share any pro tips. I talked to a couple quite a while back just in general and they were open to help but I never got back to them, just put some more polish on them and called it good. They were up for looking at the saddles though, should have got back to them.

thook

understand, i'm asking here/you guys specifically in regards to saddles where, as you know, leather tension is important. i've done some reading about painting leather, but much of it seems relative to apparel...not tensioned bike saddles. not sure how much a shoe guy/gal could say about that issue. the paints i've looked at are acrylic/water based, so maybe it wouldn't hurt a thing. but, i really don't feel like experimenting only to mess it up. brooks aren't cheap, eh?

otoh, it did just occur to me from reading, the acrylic paints do not actually chemically bond like dyes do. so maybe it would be fine. hmm...i'll call a couple of shops soon and see what they have to say. thanks for the tip!

Big Block

Photos of the saddle would help.
Unless the dyed surface has been abraded, I would have thought the regular Proofide treatment then buffed would be sufficient.

thook

no photos...sorry. i don't do phones and i have no idea where my 20 year old camera is

proofide won't make it like new black, though. i bought the saddle used several years ago. i've since treated it with some "other" products and eventually got some proofide for it. add in a few kiwi polishings here and there... a donkey taste testing...it's just looking a bit used. not that the leather's cracking or in bad shape, but it just looks flat black. not shiny deep black like it used to. maybe it's the kiwi polish lack of quality

bwilli88 

I suggest talking to shoe repair guys or better yet motorcycle seat cover guy who works in leather.
DIY, be prepared to have a black butt.

SurferRosa

That's unfortunate. This site works a million times more efficient with a simple photo.

thook

i can appreciate that, but do you really need a photo to comment on experience using paint vs dye on leather or bike saddle? i haven't taken photos in years. and. as a personal thing, i can't see spending money on something i rarely if ever use. i'd rather buy another saddle, if you know what i mean

thook

i intend to do that. black butt is something i'm trying to avoid

scarlson 

Paging @rhm !!

He is an expert with leather and saddles. He should know.

I will say that I have one saddle, an Idéale 80, which has been painted at some point in its life. It does not appear to have aged well. As the leather flexed, the paint cracked, and now it's all crocodile scaly. I was actually wondering how to get the paint off!!

From what I know talking with my younger brother, who does leatherwork for the Renaissance Faire crowd, I would say use dye. Here's an example of a leather COVID-19 mask he made, which started out as "natural" cowhide (vegetable tanned makes it a "tan" color) and then he dyed it black. I can also ask him what specific product he uses. For what it's worth, the dye doesn't come off on the wearer's face.

SurferRosa

Yes, photos always help. Photos never hurt.

rhm

Black is a color that you can do with either dye or paint.
For new saddles and leather in general I think dye is the way to go, because it gets all through the leather and becomes part of it. Dye really is permanent. The problem is an oil dye is going to mix with the shoe polish and other waxes in the saddle, if there are any, and may never dry. If it doesn't dry, it will ruin a lot of pants. So in this case I'd go with paint.

That said, for the sake of "what if...", IF I were to use dye I would use Fiebings oil dye. It only takes a tiny bit of that stuff to turn leather permanently black. It is sold with a "resolene" acrylic finish that you put on soon after the dye and it seals the surface nicely. The combination, properly applied and burnished, is really nice. I wonder if the resolene would be all you need... but the bottle of dye is something like $8 and you only need a little of it; and the resolene is something like $8 IIRC and you would only need a little of it. I'm still thinking paint is the way to go.

A jar of Angelus leather paint costs about $3 and will paint several saddles. I have used the stuff two or three times; once on a customer's saddle (white) and once on my own (turquoise) and... the third time I'm not sure. Maybe I'm thinking of a saddle for @USAZorro who can comment further.

Anyway, the place that sells you a $3 jar of Angelus leather paint will also sell you a $3 jar of Angelus deglazer, which they recommend using before the paint. With new leather I figure that stuff isn't necessary, but in this case, especially since kiwi shoe polish was mentioned, I'd definitely get the deglazer, and I might use something even stronger to make sure the leather is really clean, before painting. And let it dry thoroughly before and after painting, of course!

I'm sure there are other brands of leather paint, but the place I go to (Manhattan Wardrobe Supply) does a huge business (Broadway is a couple blocks away) and they sell Angelus paint. Good enough for me!

Oh, well, okay.

merziac

I doubt its a lack of quality of the polish, it may not be the best anymore "butt" it should still do the job, works good for me. The buffing process is a key part of it, I use an oldschool horsehair brush and a few drops of water, if you do it a few times and get it right it will stick better and to a degree not rub off as much, black shorts will still be advised.

My Grandfather was an emaculate dresser, cuff links, stick pin, starch shirts, the whole nine yards, a very sharp dressed man.

He was a traveling salesman back in the 60's, you would have thought he was the CEO and he was later on of his own company.

He shined his own shoes at a station down in the basement, had what I call a shoe jack mounted on a post that held the shoes so you could really get after it, his gleamed at all times and it was a tough shine, they stayed that way after he got done with them for quite awhile.

He buffed them with a long snap rag and the brush as well, that guy was never short on elbow grease.

I managed to inherit a little of his skill, always been able to bring cowboy boots and shoes back from a rough night on the town.

I have been considering adding a few drops of dye or liquid polish to the polish and see what happens, dye itself will get it black but it will need some kind of polish and elbow grease to make it really shine.

merziac

It also finally occurs to me to reach out to Brooks, you never know when they might have a good simple hack or good intel.

TugaDude

I get the desire to have a "new looking saddle", but part of the beauty of leather saddles is the patina they develop. I've yet to see one that was so faded it was unsightly. Worn, yes, broken-in, yes.

If you want a new-looking saddle, probably better to just buy one.

YMMV.

USAZorro

rhm is correct. Angelus makes very high quality products.

Not too long ago (in vintage terms, 3-4 years or so), I acquired am rhm saddle (first of two so far), and I painted it with a mixture of Angelus leather paints. It is a very unconventional color scheme to say the least, but it held fast and I observed no color bleed.

Not too long after, I acquired a NOS BIM saddle, used the deglazer and then used Fiebings saddle dye, which by all accounts is highly regarded. The bike it was on was ridden on an occasion by my step-daughter's husband, and after the ride, his non-black pants experienced some transfer.

If you wear black cycling shorts, I don't think you'll have an issue either way, but the Angelus products seemed more resistant to color transfer. I recommend them for their selection, cost and quality.

Note added: On the saddle that I dyed, I did not use resolene, which may be something that I should look into.

thook

of course it doesn't...

i'll be seeing a friend with a phone this weekend. i can get him take a picture or two of the saddle for me

thook

now, see that's the kind of "flat" appearance i'm trying to relay. and, i wasn't talking about using regular paint, if that's what you used. i should have clarified that before, i suppose. rhm recommended the paint/deglazer i'd been reading about....which i should have mentioned before, as well.
thanks for paging the saddle doctor...

thook

the two B72's i have have patina. i do like that. this just doesn't look like patina, though. it looks more like what it is; a poor black finish. again, i'll see about getting photos. thanks!

thook

angelus, yes...that's what i've been reading about. there's a leather shop and a couple of shoe shops in the town nearby. i just have to manage to get there during store hours. i'll do some calling and see if they have the products. those saddles you painted look pretty dern good

and, thanks so much for chiming in. it's the kind of feedback i was hoping for

Big Block

I have some concerns using a leather paint and the associated sealer.
This may interfere with any subsequent Proofide treatment of the saddle.
I don't think Brooks prefer treatment of the underside with Proofide.
I have used these leather paints to refinish some old 'pizza' riding shoes with great effect.

TugaDude

If the saddle is painted, then it will be sealed and not need any proofhide. The paint will seal it off from the elements. If you were determined to use Proofhide, you could still apply it on the underside,

oldroads

this!