Importance of foot retention
07-30-21, 12:30 AM
#151
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OMG, pics. Gotta see you looking like the last pic but with road shoes.
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07-30-21, 12:33 AM
#152
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I'm just wondering how long I should be able to do it on a freewheel bike...I can regularly hold a position for 3-4 seconds before I have to release the front brake slightly and creep forward a couple inches in order to regain/maintain my balance. That's the best I can manage after casually working at it for about 15 years.
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07-30-21, 08:39 AM
#153
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I just found these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/262387206497
Just the things you need to learn how to track stand.
I once knew a guy who had a set but he mostly used them on his racing tricycle
https://www.ebay.com/itm/262387206497
Just the things you need to learn how to track stand.
I once knew a guy who had a set but he mostly used them on his racing tricycle
07-30-21, 10:30 AM
#154
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This has been a fun thread, so I hope I don't ruin it by posting something on topic.
Here's my pedal power phase diagram from yesterday's ride:
The light green curve is the 90% power (where 90% of the total power is generated), the darker green is the 50% power.
Notice that the 90% power starts before top dead center, and it continues beyond bottom dead center.
I don't think I would be able to do that without foot retention, so I cast my vote for foot retention: yes please.
Here's my pedal power phase diagram from yesterday's ride:
The light green curve is the 90% power (where 90% of the total power is generated), the darker green is the 50% power.
Notice that the 90% power starts before top dead center, and it continues beyond bottom dead center.
I don't think I would be able to do that without foot retention, so I cast my vote for foot retention: yes please.
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07-30-21, 07:26 PM
#155
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Track stand is a valuable skill, like a bunny hop. I think it's like a plank, where beyond a certain point there stops being much benefit. For me, that's a long red light, or how long it takes a kid or old person to walk across the street. Like you, I keep the bike almost perfectly still, the key word being almost. 🙂
Flat pavement, front tire (I'm in the the USA) generally pointed straight ahead, or slightly to one side.
08-01-21, 01:08 PM
#156
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This has been a fun thread, so I hope I don't ruin it by posting something on topic.
Here's my pedal power phase diagram from yesterday's ride:
The light green curve is the 90% power (where 90% of the total power is generated), the darker green is the 50% power.
Notice that the 90% power starts before top dead center, and it continues beyond bottom dead center.
I don't think I would be able to do that without foot retention, so I cast my vote for foot retention: yes please.
Here's my pedal power phase diagram from yesterday's ride:
The light green curve is the 90% power (where 90% of the total power is generated), the darker green is the 50% power.
Notice that the 90% power starts before top dead center, and it continues beyond bottom dead center.
I don't think I would be able to do that without foot retention, so I cast my vote for foot retention: yes please.
But to your point...
Actually, that IS totally doable without foot retention. It mostly depends what kind of pedals and shoes you are using.
08-02-21, 11:11 AM
#157
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Sup guys, how important do you think foot retention is for road bikes? Someone I ride with has been bugging me to get clipped in. I thought it was just for speed but apparently it's for safety as well because my feet could slip off the pedals at an intense pace? This doesn't really make sense to me, but do people crash because of that? How much better are the clipless things than just leather straps.
i was under the impression that foot retention is really only important when standing up sprinting but I'm clueless. I've never used it, am I missing out?
i was under the impression that foot retention is really only important when standing up sprinting but I'm clueless. I've never used it, am I missing out?
As to actual energy transfer, I doubt you win or lose more than 5-10%.
08-02-21, 11:14 AM
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I’m sure someone has done a study and can give specific data, but potentially clipped or secured feet can double your pedal power as you get power on the up stroke, not just the down stroke. Cleated shoes do have adjustable release pressures but require some skill. If you’re concerned about safety, start slow and use some of the alternatives shown in this thread like half-clips until you feel confident. But fully cleared shoes make a world of difference especially on a climb or sprint.
If cleated shoes don’t make a difference then why do all pro riders on the road and track use them? Simple, they make a huge difference.
Studies show that road cyclist see a 15%-30% improvement in power using clipless pedals during sprints, less on hills. See the YouTube from Global Cycling Network on this. It's a good study. A separate study was conducted in 2012 at Ft. Hays State showing a 10% improvement using clipless shoes with mountainbikers. My experience was +50% (double power). Lot's of anectdotal opinions flying around here, shocked how many are ill informed and flat out wrong. Look at the studies.
If cleated shoes don’t make a difference then why do all pro riders on the road and track use them? Simple, they make a huge difference.
Studies show that road cyclist see a 15%-30% improvement in power using clipless pedals during sprints, less on hills. See the YouTube from Global Cycling Network on this. It's a good study. A separate study was conducted in 2012 at Ft. Hays State showing a 10% improvement using clipless shoes with mountainbikers. My experience was +50% (double power). Lot's of anectdotal opinions flying around here, shocked how many are ill informed and flat out wrong. Look at the studies.
Last edited by StanJF; 08-02-21 at 07:58 PM.
08-02-21, 11:14 AM
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Toe clips are a mixed bag.
Sup guys, how important do you think foot retention is for road bikes? Someone I ride with has been bugging me to get clipped in. I thought it was just for speed but apparently it's for safety as well because my feet could slip off the pedals at an intense pace? This doesn't really make sense to me, but do people crash because of that? How much better are the clipless things than just leather straps.
i was under the impression that foot retention is really only important when standing up sprinting but I'm clueless. I've never used it, am I missing out?
i was under the impression that foot retention is really only important when standing up sprinting but I'm clueless. I've never used it, am I missing out?
Don't let your friend push you into this if you are happy with what you have.
08-02-21, 11:19 AM
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08-02-21, 11:22 AM
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Switching to clip-ins on my suburban bike was a game changer for me. I couldn't understand why I had so much ankle pain. Then made the switch and no pain. I was spending too much time and effort just keeping my feet on the pedals. It is a personal preference and ignore what naysayers say.
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08-02-21, 11:44 AM
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Switching to clip-ins on my suburban bike was a game changer for me. I couldn't understand why I had so much ankle pain. Then made the switch and no pain. I was spending too much time and effort just keeping my feet on the pedals. It is a personal preference and ignore what naysayers say.
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08-02-21, 01:43 PM
#163
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[QUOTE=LarrySellerz;22159393]Sup guys, how important do you think foot retention is for road bikes? Someone I ride with has been bugging me to get clipped in. I thought it was just for speed but apparently it's for safety as well because my feet could slip off the pedals at an intense pace? This doesn't really make sense to me, but do people crash because of that? How much better are the clipless things than just leather straps.
i was under the impression that foot retention is really only important when standing up sprinting but I'm clueless. I've never used it, am I missing out?[/QUOTE
Hey there, clipless pedals are really great to use because it gives you physical advantages more so than flat pedals. It allows you to use more different muscle groups. With clipless, you can use up stroke efficiently because the foot is clamp on to the pedal and you would pull up the foot. Flat pedals you can't do up stroke. When you are new to clipless, you will have to train your one foot to pull up while your other foot push down simultaneously. Once you master this, you will notice that you are pedaling more efficiently by utilizing full up and down strokes. Also, you will not have to down shift gears as much when you are starting from stopping point.
Only down side of clipless is that you have to unclip your feet when you are at the stop, otherwise you will fall off to the side. You will have to train yourself to unclip before coming to a full stop.
i was under the impression that foot retention is really only important when standing up sprinting but I'm clueless. I've never used it, am I missing out?[/QUOTE
Hey there, clipless pedals are really great to use because it gives you physical advantages more so than flat pedals. It allows you to use more different muscle groups. With clipless, you can use up stroke efficiently because the foot is clamp on to the pedal and you would pull up the foot. Flat pedals you can't do up stroke. When you are new to clipless, you will have to train your one foot to pull up while your other foot push down simultaneously. Once you master this, you will notice that you are pedaling more efficiently by utilizing full up and down strokes. Also, you will not have to down shift gears as much when you are starting from stopping point.
Only down side of clipless is that you have to unclip your feet when you are at the stop, otherwise you will fall off to the side. You will have to train yourself to unclip before coming to a full stop.
08-02-21, 02:07 PM
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I’m sure someone has done a study and can give specific data, but potentially clipped or secured feet can double your pedal power as you get power on the up stroke, not just the down stroke. Cleated shoes do have adjustable release pressures but require some skill. If you’re concerned about safety, start slow and use some of the alternatives shown in this thread like half-clips until you feel confident. But fully cleared shoes make a world of difference especially on a climb or sprint.
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08-02-21, 02:13 PM
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Hey there, clipless pedals are really great to use because it gives you physical advantages more so than flat pedals. It allows you to use more different muscle groups. With clipless, you can use up stroke efficiently because the foot is clamp on to the pedal and you would pull up the foot. Flat pedals you can't do up stroke. When you are new to clipless, you will have to train your one foot to pull up while your other foot push down simultaneously. Once you master this, you will notice that you are pedaling more efficiently by utilizing full up and down strokes. Also, you will not have to down shift gears as much when you are starting from stopping point.
Only down side of clipless is that you have to unclip your feet when you are at the stop, otherwise you will fall off to the side. You will have to train yourself to unclip before coming to a full stop.
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08-02-21, 02:14 PM
#166
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I use flats on MTB too, but clipless on the road. The pulling up thing gets mentioned a lot, but I think it’s a red herring. Nobody really pulls on their pedals unless they want to injure themselves. Track sprinters are an exception.
I have “pinned” myself a few times on the mountain bike but I prefer not to be clipped in off road. On road I like the security and precision of clipless pedals.
I have “pinned” myself a few times on the mountain bike but I prefer not to be clipped in off road. On road I like the security and precision of clipless pedals.
Leroy
08-02-21, 02:17 PM
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It’s true and don’t let anyone tell you different
08-02-21, 02:20 PM
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Sorry, but there are enough studies out there demonstrating that this is a poor technique.
08-02-21, 02:20 PM
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08-02-21, 02:23 PM
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If foot retention, especially using cleats doesn’t work then why do all pro riders, road or track, use them? Simple, they work and don’t believe otherwise.
08-02-21, 02:28 PM
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08-02-21, 02:30 PM
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08-02-21, 02:42 PM
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There is a host of advantages, but outside of a sprint (which is basically essential if you are a road racer or track sprinter) maximal force production isn't the limit in how much power you can produce. Doing 400W you are basically pushing down a 30kg weight.
The advantages of road clipless which you totally should use on a road bike don't lie in more sustained power. I actually have a power meter on a bike with flat pedals and on road clipless, in a sprint the difference is big, long sustained efforts, negligible.
Handling, cornering, sprinting, descending, going over bumps... road clipless all the way.
08-02-21, 03:26 PM
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For several reasons (one leg being 1 1/2" shorter than the other is one fo them) I can't go clippless.
I started out with toe clips...I had a clever person modify a metal toe clip so that it was deep enough to go over the 1 or extra rubbber on the sole of my shoe.
The I switched to straps, trying several kinds before I found the one that I thought was best. Straps are better than toe clips.
Two years ago, I decided to go a day without the straps. And then another...
and soon enough, that was that. I have been much happier this way, and my feet have never left the pedals or have i had any problems. Keep in mind that I'm somewhat slow no matter what.
12 or so years ago, I was in Rocky mountain national park. THere's a road there (Trail ridge road) that goes up 13,000 feet. MY wife and I drove up that road....I expected to see a lot (or at least some) cyclists. I didn't yet know it was supposed to rain that day.
Only saw ONE person up that road on a bike. Got to talk to her at a rest area.
A 75 year old women. I noticed: she was not clipless nor did she have toe clips or anything. Her husband (who could no longer ride) was following behind in their van.
She had foot problems like mine (sort of). She'd also had a knee replacement the year before (which was what gave me the gumption to finally get the one I'd been avoiding for years). You can get by without is the the bottom line.
If I could go clipless I would, I'm sure it's got real advantages. But one can live without.
I started out with toe clips...I had a clever person modify a metal toe clip so that it was deep enough to go over the 1 or extra rubbber on the sole of my shoe.
The I switched to straps, trying several kinds before I found the one that I thought was best. Straps are better than toe clips.
Two years ago, I decided to go a day without the straps. And then another...
and soon enough, that was that. I have been much happier this way, and my feet have never left the pedals or have i had any problems. Keep in mind that I'm somewhat slow no matter what.
12 or so years ago, I was in Rocky mountain national park. THere's a road there (Trail ridge road) that goes up 13,000 feet. MY wife and I drove up that road....I expected to see a lot (or at least some) cyclists. I didn't yet know it was supposed to rain that day.
Only saw ONE person up that road on a bike. Got to talk to her at a rest area.
A 75 year old women. I noticed: she was not clipless nor did she have toe clips or anything. Her husband (who could no longer ride) was following behind in their van.
She had foot problems like mine (sort of). She'd also had a knee replacement the year before (which was what gave me the gumption to finally get the one I'd been avoiding for years). You can get by without is the the bottom line.
If I could go clipless I would, I'm sure it's got real advantages. But one can live without.
08-02-21, 03:35 PM
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There are the best alternative to clipless I ever tried. But theN: i abandoned them. I lfound I was happy with that type of pedal without the strap (platforrm).
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1