Bladeputr13

I bought a Nishiki road bike on Craigslist. I took the whole thing apart and finally have intimate knowledge of how everything fits together. The only thing I can't figure out how the 6 speed winner freewheel is supposed to fit between the dropouts. I took the freewheel apart thinking I could maybe get rid of a sprocket but that's a no go because the smallest of them houses bearings. The things I've doubled checked and where my understanding might be different are wheel dishing(I trued the wheel and has even dishing), dropout alignment(they're even but maybe the dropouts should be wider on the drive side).
The above listed variables are the ones I have preconcieved notions about. That the wheel should have even dishing and the dropouts should be even as well. Should the dropouts be wider on the drive side. Help me gain my sanity on this project. Thanks a lor!

Crankycrank

Dishing will not be even. You need to center the rim between the axle nuts not the hub if I'm understanding what you're asking correctly. Rim will generally sit to the right of center of the hub.

Bladeputr13

Well that solves it. Thanks for your reponse! I didn't delve too far into dishing on my specific bike I just assumed dishing was always even on bike wheels.

Bill Kapaun

What is spaced at 126mm and what isn't?
IF your hub is too wide, for the DO's, you remove spacers from the NDS to match.
Wheel will then have to be redished by mostly loosening NDS spokes and tightening DS spokes. (for a 6mm reduction, the rim willhave to move 3mm)
DS doesn't have as much of an effect due to spoke angle differences between the 2 sides.
NDS spokes are "more horizontal" than DS and thus have a greater effect.

It's much easier to do the opposite.

Bladeputr13

The dropouts are spaced 126mm. They look good using a homemade dropout alignment gauge. The back wheel sits square on an a now straight axle that was once bent. Wheel dishing makes a lot of sense because with an evenly dished wheel the wheel sits about a quarter inch left of center right now. I knew it had to be something like the wheel dishing because the wheel is the farthest right allowed by the width of the freewheel. A 6 speed winner freewheel.

Bill Kapaun

Just flip the wheel in the DO's to check dish. The rim should be the same distance from the brake pads if the dish is correct.

The Free Wheel shouldn't have anything to do with "fitting between the drop outs". It's attached to the hub and the LOCK NUTS butt against the DO's.

What AREN'T you telling us that makes this thing an issue?
When I build a new wheel, I don't have the cogs installed and I set the dish properly.

Bladeputr13

I appreciate your time Bill but i don't know how to be more clear. The frame is straight. The dropouts are even and spaced 126mm apart. The axle is straight and the bearings in the wheels are new. The freewheel has a lot to do with alignment. I assumed the dishing is supposed to be even on both sides. That is an assumption I made. If I take my evenly dished wheel and place the wheel on the dropouts it sits just left of center. For the sake of argument if theres no freewheel present there isn't an issure centering the wheel on the bike. If wheel dishing is the correct answer which Crankycrank was kind enough to provide then there is no issue, my mystery is solved and the thread is closed. But then you asked what is spaced 126 and what isn't. Which brings us to this point.

Russ Roth

You're confusing the issue somewhat. The freewheel is of zero importance to the centering of the wheel. Wheels should be 3 things; straight, true and round. Round is obvious, straight means no side to side wobble, and true means it runs down the center of the fork. Adding any freewheel will have no effect on these three aspects as they only pertain to the wheel. If you're putting the freewheel on the wheel and it is somehow effecting the centering of the wheel than you either have the wrong sized freewheel which is unlikely with 6sp and 126mm spaced wheel. If the freewheel is hitting the frame somehow putting the wheel off-center than someone has taken the hub apart and not put it back together correctly. The axle fixing nut should stock out past the freewheel by a few mm, if they don't you need to figure out why. Has the freewheel actually been threaded onto the hub all the way? Although pedaling will do the final tightening the freewheel should be tightened on pretty hard to allow for accurate testing of the shifting. Has the hub been pulled apart and put back together? If so have you tested to make sure the axle still measures 126mm? If dish/true is wrong maybe a spacer was left out of the drive side allowing the freewheel to hit the frame. If the freewheel isn't hitting the frame and is spaced in the proper amount and the wheel isn't true to the frame than dish the wheel better, just know that the freewheel will have no effect on doing so.

Bladeputr13

Thank you, Bill. That's very thorough. I will put it another way. If all the pieces are correct for the bike e.g. spacing of dropouts, parts, wheel and freewheel. Why is it when I put the frickin' rear wheel on the bike doesn't it sit centered?

HillRider

That's because it isn't "dished" properly. Multi-speed bike rear wheels do not have the rim centered around the center of the hub, it is centered between the locknuts. Consequently the rim has to be offset toward the freewheel/cassette side of the hub to center it in the frame when installed. I expect the wheel you show does have the rim centered over the bub shell and that's wrong.

dedhed

Bladeputr13

Thanks hillrider and others. That makes perfect sense. I watched a couple wheel truing videos-global cycling network's among them and this is the first mention of some wheels neccessity to be centered to the locknuts and not the hub. Or maybe my assumptions were to strong. That along witha a dishing tool which I bought that led me to believe the opposite. Thanks again everyone!

70sSanO

Was the wheel originally centered or was it this far off? It would be pretty easy to notice a wheel that far off, especially not being able to turn it with the tire installed. If it was centered originally, the dish can’t change if re-assembled correctly.

Are you sure you put the spacers back the way they were?

A freewheel doesn’t impact dishing, but the spacers between the cone and the locknut on the drive side do. If the freewheel is more than 2/3mm from the dropout, you may have put the a non-drive side spacer on the drive side.

Old freewheel hubs I have may only have a 2mm non-drive side spacer.

John

ShannonM

Almost all multi-speed bicycle rear wheels have at least some dishing. Heck, with disc brakes, now front wheels are dished! (And the rears are differently asymmetrical on both sides...)

--Shannon

CliffordK

Here's the trick!!

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-accident.html

Some ingenuous person figured out how to grind the dropouts to compensate for a poorly dished wheel. Of course throwing the bottom of the wheel where it contacts the pavement out of alignment with the frame.

========

Ok, better to get the axle set right so that it protrudes a couple of mm beyond the freewheel (enough that nothing rubs). Then dish the wheel (shorter spokes on the drive side, longer on the NDS).

Bill Kapaun

Go look at a bike you haven't messed with.

Russ Roth

It's kind of a semantics/terminology thing, really saying you're centering to the hub is correct as the hub is the complete object including the axle, bearings, cones and locknuts. But people often think of the hub as the hubshell and center to the flanges of the hubshell if they are inexperienced. So plenty of videos will say to center over the hub which is correct but people not familiar with terminology often think its referencing just the shell. Kinda like how many people will walk into a shop and ask for a rim when they mean the whole wheel. The annoying part is that the shops become trained to assume anyone asking for a rim wants a whole wheel so I've been told by shops they have the rim I want only to walk in and find they have a whole wheel when I only need the rim.

SurferRosa

It could be a couple different things. The dish could be off. Or maybe the frame is out of alignment. Sheldon Brown's site is the best resource and covers everything you need to know about rebuilding a hub, dishing/truing/building a wheel, and aligning a frame.

When I perfect dish, I use a table top, two stacks of CD jewel cases, and a metric ruler. Learned that from Sheldon.