Tubeless Back to Tubes
#26
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I had two flats this spring that both appeared to be the result of using tire levers on the install and again at the side of the road. I know , I know but the buggers were super hard to get on !! I was able to man handle them after they had gone on a few times. That was my old bike using Michelin Power Roads, love the tires BTW. I usually average maybe one flat a year but am always prepared. I ride a fair amount on a canal towpath that is hard crushed limestone and some of the shads can be pretty sharp.
If I didn't want to at least try the tubeless set up that came with the bike I would have no problem switching to tubes. If I have issues (tire issues , personal issues are a different topic) I will in a heartbeat as along with sealant I will be getting everything to switch it over just in case.
If I didn't want to at least try the tubeless set up that came with the bike I would have no problem switching to tubes. If I have issues (tire issues , personal issues are a different topic) I will in a heartbeat as along with sealant I will be getting everything to switch it over just in case.
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#27
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The rider in me wants to forget about it and stick with what I know. The wrench in me wants to master a new tech. I guess the only sensible solution is to buy the new mountain bike and learn on that !!!
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It all comes down to how many flats you get when running tubes. I used to get 1 or 2 flats per month on average - our roads are not great. With tubeless road I have had zero flats in 2 years. So I’m sticking with tubeless. I was already running tubeless mtb for 15 years, so that made the choice easier.
#29
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
...The clinchers have better ride quality...
But it would add to my enjoyment of bicycling if everyone who rides in the group rides around here would go tubeless. We have been running about 50 riders for about 30 miles, and it seems like they are about 50/50 tube - tubeless. About 1/3rd of the time someone has a flat, and the flats have been 100% tube tires. We have a lot of gravel roads in this area and the intersections between paved roads and gravel roads always have gravel on them. And people get flats at those junctions. Looking at my current GP5000 rear I can see several dings that cut through to the cord, but no flats and that tire is almost worn down to the wear indicators.
Tubeless is a rapidly changing space. What didn't work last year may be better this year. My new wheels (on the way from Light Bicycle, Carbon Ti hubs, 46mm, and no through drilled spoke holes) will not require tape. Tape has been the biggest PITA for me. Since I will use a tire mounting lubricant (which also acts as a bead seal at a pressure no higher than commonly run in heavy duty truck tires) they will not be that difficult to mount. And, with 25cc of Orange Seal Sub-Zero sealant (which doesn't seem to dry out and which works in my fat bike so I only have to keep one type of sealant around) they will be lighter than a GP5000 tube tire with a 50 gram Continental tube, and I only need to top up the sealant once a season.
FYI: Schwalbe comparison. And I am well aware that they are different tires but the Pro One tube version is not a slouch.
Tube:
- Schwalbe Pro One Tube Type
ROAD - 25-622
- Evolution Line
Super Race, V-Guard - ADDIX Race
Black
ETRTO 25-622 (Franz.Bez. 700x25C)
Typ:Folding
Compound:ADDIX Race
Execution:Super Race, V-Guard
Color:Black
Seal:Tube
Weight:235 g
Pressure:6.00 - 9.00 Bar (85 - 130 psi)
Maximum load:70 kg
EPI:127
Article number:11653977
Tubeless:
- Schwalbe Pro One TT
ROAD - 25-622
- Evolution Line
Super Race - ADDIX Race
Classic Sidewall
Typ:Folding
Compound:ADDIX Race
Execution:Super Race
Color:Classic Sidewall
Seal:TLE
Weight:220 g
Pressure:5.00 - 7.50 Bar (70 - 110 psi)
Maximum load:70 kg
EPI:127
Article number:11653972
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#30
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It all comes down to how many flats you get when running tubes. I used to get 1 or 2 flats per month on average - our roads are not great. With tubeless road I have had zero flats in 2 years. So I’m sticking with tubeless. I was already running tubeless mtb for 15 years, so that made the choice easier.
#31
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Decided what the heck ...... bought 3 tubes and rim tape AND a bottle of sealant. Had the rear mounted/filled and inflated in about 20 minutes. Topped off the front ....... only a tiny bit of spilled sealant which was my fault.
Aired up to 70 PSI and went for a 2 mile ride. If they are solid tomorrow I am sold. It was pretty easy and I have tubes for flat repair on the road. If I gotta mess with them once or twice a season its no big dea. to me
Aired up to 70 PSI and went for a 2 mile ride. If they are solid tomorrow I am sold. It was pretty easy and I have tubes for flat repair on the road. If I gotta mess with them once or twice a season its no big dea. to me
#32
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But it would add to my enjoyment of bicycling if everyone who rides in the group rides around here would go tubeless. We have been running about 50 riders for about 30 miles, and it seems like they are about 50/50 tube - tubeless. About 1/3rd of the time someone has a flat, and the flats have been 100% tube tires. We have a lot of gravel roads in this area and the intersections between paved roads and gravel roads always have gravel on them. And people get flats at those junctions. Looking at my current GP5000 rear I can see several dings that cut through to the cord, but no flats and that tire is almost worn down to the wear indicators.
We don't have any tubeless bikes in the fleet (yet), but I'm a big fan of tubeless tape...
#33
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Just out of curiosity, are the tubed riders still on skinnier tires, too? Most of the time, my 650B bike is also carrying a 700C tube as there's always some 700x23C rider who needs one.
We don't have any tubeless bikes in the fleet (yet), but I'm a big fan of tubeless tape...
We don't have any tubeless bikes in the fleet (yet), but I'm a big fan of tubeless tape...
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#34
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Wrong. Bontrager rims don't use tubeless tape, they use a somewhat bulky plastic rim strip. If you're not tubeless it should be removed and replaced w/ either the 'normal' Bontrager rim strip or tape.
Just to throw my hat in, I can not stand tubeless on the road. Did it for years, had one cut tire and it was such a mess I went back to tubes as soon as I got home from that ride.
Just to throw my hat in, I can not stand tubeless on the road. Did it for years, had one cut tire and it was such a mess I went back to tubes as soon as I got home from that ride.
#36
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It "looked" like more of a pain than it was. The beads set easy, putting in the sealant was pretty easy and they are just as aired up this morning as last night. Other than roadside flats I think I will stick with it.
#37
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DangerousDanR - I agree what you say in post #29 about tubeless being less harsh. On my tubed (aluminum) road bike with 25mm latex tubed tires I find it harsh to ride a lot in the crack filled pavement near the white line on the right. Makes me migrate further out into the road to seek the car tire ruts.
On my tubeless (titanium) road bike the harshness is much less even when the tubeless tires are inflated at the higher end (say..90f/100r). It allows me to relax on my solo training rides around traffic and I don’t get beat to death by choppy pavement and cars appreciate me since I’m not as squirrelly.
To make the harshness comparison of tubed to tubeless more meaningful and not just attributable to what is probably superior shock dampening from the titanium frame, I plan to convert my aluminum bike to tubeless as well. My Flyte SRS-3 aluminum bike has a nice Reynolds carbon fork and I run Velocity A23 clincher wheels with tubeless tape/latex tubes and currently w/ Schwalbe One (23mm) clinchers at like 84 psi front and 90 psi rear and the ride is just “OK”. Normally these wheels are run with 25mm Challenge Strada open tubulars and yeah those are a bit less harsh. But even those are quite a bit more harsh than the Panaracer/Hutchinson Secteur tubeless set up on my titanium bike.
On my tubeless (titanium) road bike the harshness is much less even when the tubeless tires are inflated at the higher end (say..90f/100r). It allows me to relax on my solo training rides around traffic and I don’t get beat to death by choppy pavement and cars appreciate me since I’m not as squirrelly.
To make the harshness comparison of tubed to tubeless more meaningful and not just attributable to what is probably superior shock dampening from the titanium frame, I plan to convert my aluminum bike to tubeless as well. My Flyte SRS-3 aluminum bike has a nice Reynolds carbon fork and I run Velocity A23 clincher wheels with tubeless tape/latex tubes and currently w/ Schwalbe One (23mm) clinchers at like 84 psi front and 90 psi rear and the ride is just “OK”. Normally these wheels are run with 25mm Challenge Strada open tubulars and yeah those are a bit less harsh. But even those are quite a bit more harsh than the Panaracer/Hutchinson Secteur tubeless set up on my titanium bike.
#38
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The liner is thinner than than the standard rim tape so no problem there. Ignore the hook versus hookless as your bike will be compatible with tubes. If you want put tubes in great however talk to your bike shop as tubeless is not as bad as the luddites which frequent this forum would lead you to believe. I love it and have toured and ridden thousands of km tubeless without a issue. No flats with a super supple performance tire.
Anyhow, I wouldn't go back to tubes. 4000kms on my current TL setup and not a single flat .
Last edited by eduskator; 09-09-21 at 07:18 AM.
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#40
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There are a lot of things in life that change. I'm always annoyed. I never want to be forced into new stuff when I'm used to the "old" stuff. I've had to tell myself to just learn the "new" and see what happens. It ends up not being that bad.
#41
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My exact experience....limited tho it is. I wont be going tubeless on my other bike simply because it is an older machine and flats aren't a huge problem for me. The new bike came that way and was easy enough to fix so I'm sold on that set up as it came which is Bontrager Aeolus 3 with the plastic rim strips installed already. If I ever start from scratch on a build which isn't super likely but is possible we will see how it goes.
#42
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My exact experience....limited tho it is. I wont be going tubeless on my other bike simply because it is an older machine and flats aren't a huge problem for me. The new bike came that way and was easy enough to fix so I'm sold on that set up as it came which is Bontrager Aeolus 3 with the plastic rim strips installed already. If I ever start from scratch on a build which isn't super likely but is possible we will see how it goes.
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#43
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But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...
#44
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If you're really intent on experimenting with this, even though it's not necessary, you should at least make it as easy on yourself as you can. Get a syringe-type sealant injector/remover (like this - https://www.amazon.com/KOM-Cycling-T...4XR/ref=sr_1_5) so that you can easily check your sealant levels periodically. If your stems won't pass the "needle" all the way through, get new stems that will, like the Muc-Off aluminum ones.
#45
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The injectors that thread on to the stem are only good for getting sealant in to the tire - they can't take sealant out, not all of it, at least. IOW, if you want to check the amount of sealant in your tire, you'll won't be able to do anything better than use a dipstick unless you want to unseat the tires. Removing sealant would also need to be done by unseating the tires. All of this is to say that tubeless life is just a lot easier with a syringe.
#46
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But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...
#47
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I have a hard time with this one. I have nothing against using a 23 mm tire, and I don't doubt that they have lower aerodynamic resistance on most wheels. But I have ridden on large rear tires for many years and on 25 mm or larger fronts for over 10 years. I am a large lump, so I need the larger tires. I understand that people believe that a 23 mm tire has less wind resistance, but I also see most of the group on the hoods 100% of the time.
But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...
But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...
#48
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I have a hard time with this one. I have nothing against using a 23 mm tire, and I don't doubt that they have lower aerodynamic resistance on most wheels. But I have ridden on large rear tires for many years and on 25 mm or larger fronts for over 10 years. I am a large lump, so I need the larger tires. I understand that people believe that a 23 mm tire has less wind resistance, but I also see most of the group on the hoods 100% of the time.
But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...
But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...
Complete speculation on my part.
#49
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I appreciate all the input.I was quite surprised to see that they were already set up tubeless. I dont think I would have any problems with ride quality or PSI related flats if I change over to tubes. Still...I have everything I need and will take a stab at resealing the current set up. If it turns out to be a pain. I will have tubes and tape ready to go. No biggie.
Make sure there's sealant in there, spin the wheel horizontally and vertically for a few minutes and then check the pressure an hour later. It should be holding.
J,
#50
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I spun it every which away and rode a few miles after. It was still fully inflated this morning when I got up. I also topped up the front to be sure it .