XC or Gravel
#26
ignominious poltroon
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This is true of the Trek Domane (for example). That is their endurance road bike. If you need to use wider tires, you could put on 650b wheels (27.5" in mtn bike speak). Trek's gravel bike lets you put on 50 to 55 mm 700c tires.
#27
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It’s not a super easy answer. Neither style has an actual hard value that makes one or the other.
Lots of models out there aren’t appreciably different than an XC mountain bike. 69 degree head angle and 29x2.4 or wider tires.
Is it really just a rider preference of drop bar vs flat bar?
I think it’s fair to say that anything with clearance for 45mm or less and generally looks like a road bike is probably a gravel (or CX) bike.
Anything with front suspension and can handle 2.2” to 2.8” tires and has a flat bar is probably a hardtail MTB.
Sure seems like there’s a lot in the middle I missed.
Lots of models out there aren’t appreciably different than an XC mountain bike. 69 degree head angle and 29x2.4 or wider tires.
Is it really just a rider preference of drop bar vs flat bar?
I think it’s fair to say that anything with clearance for 45mm or less and generally looks like a road bike is probably a gravel (or CX) bike.
Anything with front suspension and can handle 2.2” to 2.8” tires and has a flat bar is probably a hardtail MTB.
Sure seems like there’s a lot in the middle I missed.
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It’s not a super easy answer. Neither style has an actual hard value that makes one or the other.
Lots of models out there aren’t appreciably different than an XC mountain bike. 69 degree head angle and 29x2.4 or wider tires.
Is it really just a rider preference of drop bar vs flat bar?
I think it’s fair to say that anything with clearance for 45mm or less and generally looks like a road bike is probably a gravel (or CX) bike.
Anything with front suspension and can handle 2.2” to 2.8” tires and has a flat bar is probably a hardtail MTB.
Sure seems like there’s a lot in the middle I missed.
Lots of models out there aren’t appreciably different than an XC mountain bike. 69 degree head angle and 29x2.4 or wider tires.
Is it really just a rider preference of drop bar vs flat bar?
I think it’s fair to say that anything with clearance for 45mm or less and generally looks like a road bike is probably a gravel (or CX) bike.
Anything with front suspension and can handle 2.2” to 2.8” tires and has a flat bar is probably a hardtail MTB.
Sure seems like there’s a lot in the middle I missed.
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I have a Grizl with a non suspension fork. The stock 700 x 45 tires are good on most unpaved surfaces. According to Canyon it has room for 700 x 50 tires
#31
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I think the pros and cons are pretty obvious. What really matters is what do you actually want out of this? If you are out for speed and that is all that matters to you then gravel bike make that an aero gravel bike with deep section wheels. Do you want a nice comfy cruise where you just get some miles in and enjoy being outside then a XC bike with gravel tires is the way to go forget the drop bars. They make all kinds of funky multi hand postion bars these days for gravel riders that use flat bar shifters and brakes or just get old school bar ends. Gravel has no rules. I ride a cyclocross bike and I ride with a guy on his full suspension mtn bike with 140mm of travel that just swaps wheels and tire. In certain places I'm better off and in others he is but we both finish the ride and have fun.
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No offense; but My Salsa warbird has 42mm and My Salsa Cuttroat has 2.2" tires.
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Paved roads and trails = road bike will be faster/more efficient at killing those miles.
Flat unpaved river trails or rail trails = gravel bike (or road bikes with 28-32mm tires) will be faster.
Technical trails (chunky, rocky, root-y) with a lot of steep climbing and descending = MTB.
The stuff in between = it's a toss up; this is stuff that I can do on my gravel bike and be slightly underbiked, or I can do it on my front suspension hard tail and be slower on the climbs but faster on the descents, and just more confident overall.
Flat unpaved river trails or rail trails = gravel bike (or road bikes with 28-32mm tires) will be faster.
Technical trails (chunky, rocky, root-y) with a lot of steep climbing and descending = MTB.
The stuff in between = it's a toss up; this is stuff that I can do on my gravel bike and be slightly underbiked, or I can do it on my front suspension hard tail and be slower on the climbs but faster on the descents, and just more confident overall.
#34
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Back in the Dark Ages (aka, the 1990a) , I put a pair of skinny slicks, Spinacci bars, a rear rack, and panniers on a XC bike and road with a buddy fron Oakland to LA along the PCH. He waa on a touring bike and I was just as fast. The front end was a little twitchier than a road bike but I got used to it and could pound out the miles in an aero tuck with the Spinaccis. So you can go quickly on a XC with proper tire choice. But a couple of things to note...
1-the longer crank arms of a mountain bike will affect your cadence.
2-you'll likely be geared lower than a gravel bike, so you'll climb better but might run out of gear inches on paved descents.
So whether or not you should get an XC depends on just how chunky the gravel you want to ride is. If it's dirt farm roads then a gravel bike may be the right tool. But if it may include some single or zketchy double track, then XC with the right tires may be the way to go.
1-the longer crank arms of a mountain bike will affect your cadence.
2-you'll likely be geared lower than a gravel bike, so you'll climb better but might run out of gear inches on paved descents.
So whether or not you should get an XC depends on just how chunky the gravel you want to ride is. If it's dirt farm roads then a gravel bike may be the right tool. But if it may include some single or zketchy double track, then XC with the right tires may be the way to go.
#35
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I haven't surveyed the entirety of gravel bike offerings, but I have looked at some and that seems more in line with what I'd expect. Does anyone have a link to a compilation of that info for the wider gravel market?
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IMO drop bars on any xc/gravel bike serve no purpose for maybe 99% of riders. You just ain't needing that aero position. A needless expense that gets you zip. There's a number of discussions about that here already.
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I put drop bars on my mountain bike. It is a major improvement. Otherwise, I need those bar end things to keep my wrists in an ergonomic position.
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#40
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You need to have a filter where your comments go thru a review before being posted to the forum. That way whatever wild claims you are making at any given time can be edited out and actual real information can stay.
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This is a troll thread, right?
It's not that complicated.
Gravel = drop bar, usually with a rigid fork but sometimes small travel suspension. Frame geometry generally ranges from "road race" to "XC". Tire clearance is more limited. If you put a flat bar on a gravel bike, it's a XC MTB.
XC = flat bar, usually with a suspension fork but not always. Geometry on hardtails is basically identical to slack gravel bikes, but some XC bikes have full suspension. Tire clearance is generous. If you put a drop bar on a XC bike, it's a gravel bike.
A drop bar is beneficial because it's more aero and offers multiple hand positions for long stretches of cruising straight roads. The downside (compared to flat bars) is that drop bars are generally lower, the flat part is narrower so they are less maneuverable for technical terrain. Also the levers are on the drops. If you want more maneuverability for technical terrain and don't care about longer stretches where aero or ergonomics might matter, then flat bars are great.
It's not that complicated.
Gravel = drop bar, usually with a rigid fork but sometimes small travel suspension. Frame geometry generally ranges from "road race" to "XC". Tire clearance is more limited. If you put a flat bar on a gravel bike, it's a XC MTB.
XC = flat bar, usually with a suspension fork but not always. Geometry on hardtails is basically identical to slack gravel bikes, but some XC bikes have full suspension. Tire clearance is generous. If you put a drop bar on a XC bike, it's a gravel bike.
A drop bar is beneficial because it's more aero and offers multiple hand positions for long stretches of cruising straight roads. The downside (compared to flat bars) is that drop bars are generally lower, the flat part is narrower so they are less maneuverable for technical terrain. Also the levers are on the drops. If you want more maneuverability for technical terrain and don't care about longer stretches where aero or ergonomics might matter, then flat bars are great.
#42
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Have you spent much time riding a gravel bike? In my own experience, and observation of other gravel bike riders, many folks use the drops when descending rougher terrain. It's not about aero, it's about leverage. This is why a lot of gravel riders prefer flared drop bars. It's also about having a variety of hand positions when rolling long distances.
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#43
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As fast as possible over what terrain? Generally speaking, a gravel bike will be the fastest option on smooth gravel. A MTB would likely be faster over most singletrack.
Are you racing Unbound or interested in riding fast over similar terrain? An Epic hardtail with drop bars is likely a very fast bike for this terrain and if the geometry works for you it would make for a great all around gravel bike. Most consumers don't want to buy a new bike and replace the groupset, handlebar and stem - so they would likely buy something like a Diverge instead, which has very similar geometry but is designed around a drop bar setup instead.
Depends on your definition of "road". They aren't just defined by pavement and cars. There are lots of gravel/fire/two-track roads out there that cars don't use (or rarely use), where a drop bar gravel bike would a better choice for most than a flat bar XC bike. If you mainly ride singletrack then a flat bar bike probably makes more sense.
This is incorrect. Most gravel bikes can fit wider tires, and MTB's with narrower tires generally handle very poorly, plus MTB's with flat bars put riders in very upright positions, which is not very good for long straight fast stretches of riding.
I disagree with this opinion. Even if you don't use the drops at all, the geometry of a drop bar design places a rider's hands on the tops/hoods a lot further out in front and a lot closer together than a flat bar setup does. The multiple hand positions on a drop bar give riders more options to stay comfortable on longer rides.
I disagree with this opinion. Even if you don't use the drops at all, the geometry of a drop bar design places a rider's hands on the tops/hoods a lot further out in front and a lot closer together than a flat bar setup does. The multiple hand positions on a drop bar give riders more options to stay comfortable on longer rides.
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Niche? What do you mean "niche"? The Evil Chamois Hagar is probably the best drop bar, unsuspended, 45mm tired, downhill bike in existence.
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#46
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It depends a lot on how you have your bike set up. I haven't made any measurements or even photo comparisons, but I get the feeling that my spine angle on my MTB is not significantly more upright than being on the hoods of my gravel bike. That said, my MTB might be set up more aggressively than a lot of people prefer. The wider grip width on my MTB is definitely less efficient for pushing though the air, however, and the multiple hand positions of a drop bar (as you also mentioned) are much preferred for the variety of terrain I ride on my gravel bike.
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Multiple times you have indicated a preference for a drop-bar MTB. If you think that will suit your needs best, go for it. Your opinion matters more than anyone else's.
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#48
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Ive looked at the lauf seigla in the past. it looks like a very capable gravel machine. However I do most of my riding on a gravel levee (double track) it is by all means NOT a smooth gravel road which is why i consider an xc. I rode my dads diverge with future shock (1.5 i believe) for about and it was very rough at 16-17 mph. i rode a little on a paved backroad (not a single car passed me) and it was very smooth and much more comfortable than my old road bike. so someone tell me this; Will i be able to average close to the same speed (within 1-2 mph) with a hardtail xc mtb (thinking either a specialized chisel or a used sc highball i found on pinkbike) as a fully rigid gravel bike?? (putting out the same watts of course)
I can put up with the roughness if a gravel bike will be significantly faster (3 or 4 mph) than a properly setup hardtail xc bike. if it will only save me 1 or 2 mph then i will definitely take the xc bike as i occasionally ride super chunky mountain trails and would b nice to not push my current pig of a mtb around them.
My goal is not to have “fun” this is for training for those times i occasionally go to the mountains on my bike.
my version of fun is jumps and berms downhill all day but i live in a flat area and love anything two wheeled.
I can put up with the roughness if a gravel bike will be significantly faster (3 or 4 mph) than a properly setup hardtail xc bike. if it will only save me 1 or 2 mph then i will definitely take the xc bike as i occasionally ride super chunky mountain trails and would b nice to not push my current pig of a mtb around them.
My goal is not to have “fun” this is for training for those times i occasionally go to the mountains on my bike.
my version of fun is jumps and berms downhill all day but i live in a flat area and love anything two wheeled.
#49
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Ive looked at the lauf seigla in the past. it looks like a very capable gravel machine. However I do most of my riding on a gravel levee (double track) it is by all means NOT a smooth gravel road which is why i consider an xc. I rode my dads diverge with future shock (1.5 i believe) for about and it was very rough at 16-17 mph. i rode a little on a paved backroad (not a single car passed me) and it was very smooth and much more comfortable than my old road bike. so someone tell me this; Will i be able to average close to the same speed (within 1-2 mph) with a hardtail xc mtb (thinking either a specialized chisel or a used sc highball i found on pinkbike) as a fully rigid gravel bike?? (putting out the same watts of course)
I can put up with the roughness if a gravel bike will be significantly faster (3 or 4 mph) than a properly setup hardtail xc bike. if it will only save me 1 or 2 mph then i will definitely take the xc bike as i occasionally ride super chunky mountain trails and would b nice to not push my current pig of a mtb around them.
My goal is not to have “fun” this is for training for those times i occasionally go to the mountains on my bike.
my version of fun is jumps and berms downhill all day but i live in a flat area and love anything two wheeled.
I can put up with the roughness if a gravel bike will be significantly faster (3 or 4 mph) than a properly setup hardtail xc bike. if it will only save me 1 or 2 mph then i will definitely take the xc bike as i occasionally ride super chunky mountain trails and would b nice to not push my current pig of a mtb around them.
My goal is not to have “fun” this is for training for those times i occasionally go to the mountains on my bike.
my version of fun is jumps and berms downhill all day but i live in a flat area and love anything two wheeled.
You have made multiple mentions (some subtle, some not) of why you think a hardtail MTB is a better choice for you. I think your mind was made up a long time ago. Great. Go with it.
Last edited by Eric F; 04-22-23 at 05:22 PM.