Steel and a clear coat?
#26
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,646
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,699 Times
in
935 Posts
I think what he means by 'defeat' is why would you spend the time and energy on doing such a process (powdercoating to make the frame corossion-resistant) to an already corossion-resistant frame. you spent a pretty penny on titanium with one of the benefits being that it's corrosion-resistant. having to spend more time making it "more" corrosion-resistant is a waste of time and money, no?
The intent for PC isn't corrosion resistance- it's adhering a color.
Reading this thread is interesting seeing the way people tiptoed around Dr. Deltron...
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Likes For The Golden Boy:
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times
in
270 Posts
I had a Redline BMX bike as a young teen, it had a chrome fork and stays, I stripped the paint off the frame and used "Bluing compound" for shotgun barrels to blue the frame, I then kept a light coat of oil on the frame to prevent rusting, the chrome/blue steel combination was great, IMO.
Yes, I see this thread is OLD.
Yes, I see this thread is OLD.
Likes For jackbombay:
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 955
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
212 Posts
I made a frame recently for a friend who wanted a raw finish. I had heard about rust spiders appearing under the clear so I tried blackening it with "Phillips Professional Cold Gun Blue" from Amazon which is selenious acid. I worked that in neat from the bottle with a green scotchbrite until I had a good smooth blackening everywhere. Then after a few hours you rub some oil on. Then after several days I cleaned any surface oil off with acetone and sprayed the whole thing with automotive 2K clear.
I've no data yet on how durable this will turn out to be but it does look badass.
The gun blue ought to provide a protective layer of magnetite (it's basically artificial mill scale).
I've no data yet on how durable this will turn out to be but it does look badass.
The gun blue ought to provide a protective layer of magnetite (it's basically artificial mill scale).
Likes For guy153:
#29
Off grid off road
I have a nickel plated steel Ritchey frame which had later been clearcoated. The rust still formed beneath the clear.
It is not recommended as clearcoat generally does not key well to steel, and the moisture trapped beneath or within the lacquer will still cause oxidation immediately.
Perhaps the best, but still fairly unreliable way to clear a bare steel frame is undoubtedly powder-coating, preceded by thorough media blasting to remove ALL oxidized metal.
Here’s the Ritchey as it was before stripping the lacquer off:
It is not recommended as clearcoat generally does not key well to steel, and the moisture trapped beneath or within the lacquer will still cause oxidation immediately.
Perhaps the best, but still fairly unreliable way to clear a bare steel frame is undoubtedly powder-coating, preceded by thorough media blasting to remove ALL oxidized metal.
Here’s the Ritchey as it was before stripping the lacquer off:
Last edited by Deepcherry; 09-27-20 at 01:28 PM.
Likes For Deepcherry:
#30
Senior Member
This comes up periodically. I've seen many people try to clear a bare steel frame. They always rust eventually, underneath the clear. Basically, it doesn't work.
Bluing it first would probably work, as noted a couple posts back by jackbombay . Or plate it first then clear. If you do that I'd use lacquer or something else that can be periodically stripped and reapplied easily.
Bluing it first would probably work, as noted a couple posts back by jackbombay . Or plate it first then clear. If you do that I'd use lacquer or something else that can be periodically stripped and reapplied easily.
Likes For Salamandrine:
#31
Banned.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,294
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,824 Times
in
1,709 Posts
August 2018:
A little patina begins to show in December 2019:
May 2020:
June 2020:
I think the key is to be careful to maintain the finish by wiping down after every ride, particularly if you sweat a lot (like me). Not quite perfect, but definitely no "dog's ass" IMHO
(I figured this zombie thread could do with some pictures)
DD
A little patina begins to show in December 2019:
May 2020:
June 2020:
I think the key is to be careful to maintain the finish by wiping down after every ride, particularly if you sweat a lot (like me). Not quite perfect, but definitely no "dog's ass" IMHO
(I figured this zombie thread could do with some pictures)
DD
Likes For Drillium Dude:
#32
Some Weirdo
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 502
Bikes: '86 Schwinn Prelude, '91 Scott Sawtooth, '73 Raleigh "Grand 3"
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times
in
92 Posts
August 2018:
A little patina begins to show in December 2019:
May 2020:
June 2020:
I think the key is to be careful to maintain the finish by wiping down after every ride, particularly if you sweat a lot (like me). Not quite perfect, but definitely no "dog's ass" IMHO
(I figured this zombie thread could do with some pictures)
DD
A little patina begins to show in December 2019:
May 2020:
June 2020:
I think the key is to be careful to maintain the finish by wiping down after every ride, particularly if you sweat a lot (like me). Not quite perfect, but definitely no "dog's ass" IMHO
(I figured this zombie thread could do with some pictures)
DD
Likes For Ferrouscious:
#33
Junior Member
Fairlight cycles made their faran 2.0 in raw steel until they just recently started selling it with paint on it. You can see it on the pdf on their site, i can't link it since i'm a new menber.
I seen some dudes do it back when fixies was a thing, the frames usually ended up with filiform corrosion. That is "rust spiders" beneath the top coat.
I seen some dudes do it back when fixies was a thing, the frames usually ended up with filiform corrosion. That is "rust spiders" beneath the top coat.
#34
Off grid off road
After stripping the clear coat, a light brushing and regular waxing, it holds up well enough in dry weather.
Likes For Deepcherry:
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wurundjeri Country
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1079 Post(s)
Liked 1,899 Times
in
931 Posts
These are recent pics of a friend's Colnago that was clear coated about five years ago:
Needless to say I was pretty amazed how little corrosion there is. I believe it's a clear powder coat, FWIW.
Needless to say I was pretty amazed how little corrosion there is. I believe it's a clear powder coat, FWIW.
Likes For P!N20:
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,216 Times
in
1,103 Posts
I have two frames that are still bare steel. I keep them from rusting with a light coat of WD-40. No recent pictures.
2013
1983 Trek 610 60 cm (24" on Flickr
Now has primer on it.
2014
1994 Burley Duet in the raw on Flickr
2015
P1020903 on Flickr
2013
1983 Trek 610 60 cm (24" on Flickr
Now has primer on it.
2014
1994 Burley Duet in the raw on Flickr
2015
P1020903 on Flickr
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
Likes For SJX426:
#37
2-Wheeled Fool
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,346
Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 677 Times
in
457 Posts
I am thinking about taking my bike down to bare steel, cleaning it up, and then paint with a clear coat. I might still paint the lugs black to give some contrast. Has anyone tried this or, better yet, does anyone have any pictures of a similar finished product they could post?
Likes For J.Higgins:
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,749
Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .........Miyata 912........... ........................................
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked 672 Times
in
420 Posts
What is it about clear-coating that promotes rust? If you spray a bike with clear polyeurethane, isn't it the same as spraying it with an opaque poly?
Maybe it's the preparation of the frame for a clear coat that increases the likelihood of rust. Polishing a frame to a mirror finish before applying any paint is not a good idea, the steel needs to have a "tooth" for the paint to adhere to. If a finish "floats" on top of an ultra-smooth surface, I imagine moisture can migrate more easily.
Maybe it's the preparation of the frame for a clear coat that increases the likelihood of rust. Polishing a frame to a mirror finish before applying any paint is not a good idea, the steel needs to have a "tooth" for the paint to adhere to. If a finish "floats" on top of an ultra-smooth surface, I imagine moisture can migrate more easily.
Likes For branko_76:
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 955
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
212 Posts
What is it about clear-coating that promotes rust? If you spray a bike with clear polyeurethane, isn't it the same as spraying it with an opaque poly?
Maybe it's the preparation of the frame for a clear coat that increases the likelihood of rust. Polishing a frame to a mirror finish before applying any paint is not a good idea, the steel needs to have a "tooth" for the paint to adhere to. If a finish "floats" on top of an ultra-smooth surface, I imagine moisture can migrate more easily.
Maybe it's the preparation of the frame for a clear coat that increases the likelihood of rust. Polishing a frame to a mirror finish before applying any paint is not a good idea, the steel needs to have a "tooth" for the paint to adhere to. If a finish "floats" on top of an ultra-smooth surface, I imagine moisture can migrate more easily.
Likes For guy153:
#40
Junior Member
Primer itself needs something to stick to. So polishing metal shiny is not a good idea. But you can polish the coat afterwards. I've never tried to paint bikes, buy I do scale modelling as a hobby, and I use a lot of metal parts. Sometimes it's a great idea to add some roughness to the surface before covering it with a primes. Especially if it's a moving part which means more stress to the coat.
Likes For RggBee:
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 52
Bikes: '73 Raleigh Competition, Guru Sidero, Soma Groove, Smolenski,
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
9 Posts
My understanding of good primers designed for steel is that they contain a lot of Zinc. Zinc is what is known as a "sacrificial anode" which means that is reacts with oxygen before the iron in the steel can. It "sequesters" the free oxygen before it can react with the iron (which, steel is mostly iron) and cause rust. This is why (along with paint adhesion) primer or a zinc coating is important.
I would be curious is you could somehow zinc coat the frame from the inside (either shoot a "cold zinc" product through all the tubes, or dip and the frame in a zinc bath remove the zinc from the outside, though not sure if this is worth it) and then powder coat clear the outside. The internal zinc being enough anode to prevent long-term rusting while the clear prevents surface rust.
I bet it's not that water is getting through the clear, but maybe some air is, and then the oxygen gets stuck, and causes the rust, would be my guess. Or there is some tiny pore in the metal, and it is getting in that way, hence the zinc coating on the inside idea. Maybe?
Also, this thread wants brains...BRAINS!!! (this forum needs a zombie smiley)
I would be curious is you could somehow zinc coat the frame from the inside (either shoot a "cold zinc" product through all the tubes, or dip and the frame in a zinc bath remove the zinc from the outside, though not sure if this is worth it) and then powder coat clear the outside. The internal zinc being enough anode to prevent long-term rusting while the clear prevents surface rust.
I bet it's not that water is getting through the clear, but maybe some air is, and then the oxygen gets stuck, and causes the rust, would be my guess. Or there is some tiny pore in the metal, and it is getting in that way, hence the zinc coating on the inside idea. Maybe?
Also, this thread wants brains...BRAINS!!! (this forum needs a zombie smiley)
#42
Junior Member
Zinc. Yeah covering steel with zink is a very good method to prevent corrosion. However I believe that electrogalvanizing is the best way in terms of coat lifetime. Though it's impossible or really difficult for a bike frame. So yes zinc to prevent corrosion then paint to protect zinc.
#43
Overdoing projects
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rotterdam, former republic of the Netherlands
Posts: 2,397
Bikes: Batavus Randonneur GL, Gazelle Orange Excellent, Gazelle Super Licht, Gazelle Grand Tourist, Gazelle Lausanne, Gazelle Tandem, Koga-Miyata SilverAce, Koga-Miyata WorldTraveller
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Liked 1,238 Times
in
686 Posts
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 763
Bikes: S-Works Stumpjumper HT Disc, Fuji Absolute, Kona Jake the Snake, '85 Cannondale SR900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked 217 Times
in
142 Posts
Have just been thinking about this as I’m going to strip my old Cannondale to bare aluminum (the original red paint has had it), but was debating what to do with the steel fork. The fork already has some rust through chips in the paint and I may try stripping, using a rust-stopping product, sanding (but not polishing) and clear priming and seeing how that goes.
Other option is prime & paint the fork, but idk if I want a silver-aluminum frame and say, a red fork.
Other option is prime & paint the fork, but idk if I want a silver-aluminum frame and say, a red fork.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 852
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
185 Posts
Clearcoat on bare Steel
If you keep it dry there is not much to worry about as the rust is very fine and looks badass. Clearcoat (a semi-permeable membrane) does not seal the underlining metal form water molecules - paint does that. There is a osmosis process going on and water is one of the molecules that gets thru the clearcoat. Like I said keep it dry and the aging effect looks good. Perhaps a coat of wax would help out
I id the clearcoat on this 1903 Sunbeam. I waxed it but don't get it wet.
.
I id the clearcoat on this 1903 Sunbeam. I waxed it but don't get it wet.
.
#46
Strong Walker
I am thinking about taking my bike down to bare steel, cleaning it up, and then paint with a clear coat. I might still paint the lugs black to give some contrast. Has anyone tried this or, better yet, does anyone have any pictures of a similar finished product they could post?