70sSanO

In 10 years from now you won’t be able to buy a 2x, much less a 3x.

Probably because you’ll be hard pressed to find a bike without some sort of electric assist.

It’s not the bike, it’s the engine motor.

John

masi61

It appears that the TA Carmina is high end. Thanks for the link. The ability to order exactly what you want makes it worthy of consideration for a custom 3x build. I’m curious why you are going with the 64/104 spider and what chainring teeth combo you are running with.

I guess I was speaking about Dura Ace 7703, 7803 or Ultegra 6603, 6703 type of high end parts that might merge with modern hydraulic disc brake components for a neo-retro sort of custom vibe. I purchased a set of TRP hydraulic front and rear disc brake/aero brake levers set for a modern through axle disc brake titanium frame build. I purposely was going to build it up around an Industry 9 Torch 6 bolt disc 10 speed 142mm through axle mountain hub just for fun. I will just use bar end shifters for the 3 x 10 gearing to keep it simple. If I were to use a Dura Ace 7803 triple crank For this disc bike build, chain line considerations would have to be discovered on the fly as the build is road tested.

Another “high end” triple that needs to exist would be a similar idea (to what I just outlined in the previous paragraph) but this time in a Campagnolo interpretation of a “three by” triple crank modern rim brake or disc brake gear train that would be 3x11 or 3x12. Yes, duplicate/overlapping ratios might seem redundant but having tight ratios might be worth it for some people who enjoy this kind of thing.

I wrote a while back about this exact topic (perhaps in one of ride a bent’s other threads) commenting that it would be nice to see some small manufacturer produce a matched road triple chainring set that is of the same quality level and with the same excellent shifting that factory Shimano road triples originally had.

PeteHski

The only dumb thing here is this comparison.

base2 

What's so dumb about it? I don't see any other posts with components on scales to answer the whole "1x is better" in some way claims. One such claim is 1x is lighter. Clearly it isn't. 1x is simpler. Clearly that simplicity comes at a cost & that kills it for road use.

I freely acknowledge the limitations in parts variety on hand.

What would you do different, a road 11-32 cassette instead? 20 grams difference does not equal 4.2 ounces. Would you obtain a $500 Eagle cassette & tell me it's in someway better? Get a Rotor 13 speed to close up the gaps a bit where it doesn't matter & create some sort of equivalancy? Do it.

1x still isn't getting around the 1 tooth 11, 12, 13, 14 15, spacing on the small end where tight spacing matters for road. So, yeah. 1x on road is dumb no matter how you church it up.

Put some parts on a scale to show us your 1x system is lighter than a road double. Explain how to solve the cog spacing limitations & still get the same overall range is done. Show us all. I'm sure the big-bike would love to see 1x that is broader range, lighter system weigh & tighter ratio spacing than anything they've come up with for the market today.

You'd be a millionaire if you could.

gringomojado

squirrels bombing you all?
gm

Germany_chris

I'm using 104/64 because this crankset is going on powershift 10sp bike so the largest cog I can go is 30 with 64bcd I can go all the way to 22 in front if needed. The bike will spend most of it life though setup with a "bash guard" 40t in the 104 position and a 30t on the inner 64. I've been running this gear combination most of the summer on a two piece Riv silver crank and it seems to work well but I want to narrow the Q a bit which led to the crank search and square taper specifically.

livedarklions

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that TR wouldn't consider what you're doing as being in the arena. Comparing cog weights sure sounds like critic stuff to me.

If you thought that metaphor fit, y'all are taking bf thread arguments wayyyyyyy too seriously.

PeteHski

Well if you compare any like-for-like 2x vs 1x groupset you will find that the 1x version is a little lighter overall. But there are lighter dedicated 2x road groupsets like DuraAce where there is no like-for-like 1x version. But weight is not the main reason I would choose a 1x setup.

As for range, there isn’t much in it now. I was looking at Campag Ekar in comparison with my compact Shimano 11-speed 50/34 double with 11-34 cassette. I could get much the same range with a 44T and 10-44T with Ekar. Or even 42T and 9-42T cassette.

Ratio spacing with Ekar is actually tighter in the higher gears. The top 6 gears are all 1T jumps and then the lower gears are wider spaced. I actually quite like that and find it more natural than the large step jumping across front chainrings.

Having come from a mixed road and mtb background and lived through the triple, double and now 1x eras, I find 1x easily the best solution for mtb and I’m on the fence between 2x and 1x for road with current group set options. But I prefer 1x as a concept.

hubcyclist

leaving aside some of the sensationalism on the topic, sometimes there are benefits for 'more gears' and sometimes there aren't, especially given how fiddly front derailleurs can be. My road bike is 8 speed, and depending on the area, such as down where I grew up and ride when I'm visiting my parents, I can easily get by with just a 50 on front and my 12-28 cassette. I live in a hillier area so I use the 34t front. Having a triple would be unnecessary for me. Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but I'd imagine there's a ton of overlap with gear inches with one goes with a triple crankset. Racing CX I have a 2x 46/36 and 11 rear, and honestly I'm looking into going 1x with a 38 or 40, because there have been times I've had a bad front shift bite me in the rear. I have a MTB with a triple and likewise I'd go 1x front. Someone astutely noted that rear mechs are much more refined than front and a much smoother experience.

Anyhow, more is not always more and it's best to go with just what's necessary for one's riding style, sometimes it can be 1x, or a smaller 2x.

livedarklions

I think you and I are also handling similar geography hill-wise (I'm in southern NH). My impression is that the triple enthusiasts seem to be people riding roads through mountains and touring. This makes a lot of sense because they're dealing with a lot more variations of terrain, load, and altitudes than we are.

Some of the bad rap on triples probably comes from retailers sticking it on cheap bikes for no particularly good reason except that 21 speed sounds more impressive than 14 speed.

seypat

I think it is the perfect quote for the situation. It captures the spirit and very essence of the typical BF thread. It's what we should strive for each and every time we decide to post. Here's a great example of the effort we should be putting in. Note the passion on display on a topic that quite frankly, isn't nearly as exciting as bicycle gearing:

kingston 

I'm a low-power/high-cadence person, so I have triples and sub-compact doubles my road bikes, but I could make Ekar work with a small enough chainring.

PeteHski

Yeah, Ekar is interesting. Campag have taken a different approach on gear spacing compared to both Shimano and SRAM. All 3 Ekar cassettes (9-36, 9-42 and 10-44) have 1T jumps across the top 6 gears. 13 speed also helps with the spacing. For me it solves the issue of achieving a low enough climbing gear (1:1) whilst still having a decent top end spread.

Whilst Ekar is aimed at the gravel market, I think it can be a very viable alternative to a compact double. I’ve looked into this in detail and already seen it on a couple of road bikes.

kingston 

And while I like 11-speed Campagnolo too, I don't think there's anything I could do to make their 12-speed cassettes work for me.

70sSanO

1x is also going to stay because mfg’s will produce a viable geared bottom bracket that will allow for a ratio change under power to go from a high and low range. Some are available with some success.

But when the big 3 put one out, and it’s used at the highest levels, it will probably stick.

Unless people really prefer to be limited to matched chainrings with the ramps pins, and teeth.

John

Dan Burkhart 

Well, Sram already did it, a long time ago actually. Don't hear too much about the Hammerschmidt crank these days.

70sSanO

Know what I heard?

Elon Musk is worth $300 billion.

John

Dan Burkhart 

Oh yeah? Wonder what he is made of. The average human is worth about $600 in chemical composition.

70sSanO

That’s fine.

Never underestimate the power of the past. That is why 70 year old rockers are playing 50 year old songs to packed out audiences.

John

livedarklions

I admire Kinison for being able to do that stuff, but my ears just could never take it.

livedarklions

It's very fine quality 420 resins.

tomato coupe

I sold a couple of kidneys and a liver on eBay for a lot more than that.

indyfabz

When Rick James died his body had a street value of at least twice that.

tomato coupe

He bought my eBay liver.

Maelochs

Whose were they?

https://endtransplantabuse.org/