Paul Barnard

This is a somewhat serious question, but feel free to have a little fun with it. I rode a 50 mile event today. There were about 500 registered riders. I was riding solo rather than with a team. About 4 miles into the ride, well matched groups started forming. I found myself with a "team" wearing the same jerseys. I was latched onto the back of the single file line. There were 8 in the group. The guy taking the pull broke off the front and started falling to the back in normal fashion to let someone else take the pull. We were running 20-22.

First question. Do most of you consider it okay to have interlopers in rides like this?

Second question. Should I have opened up a space and let the team member stay on the wheel of his teammate?

I did open up a space, but he didn't take it, so I closed the gap back up.

We soon came to a 90 degree curve. They didn't stay in single file through the curve and I found myself up front. I took a pull, but felt like I was in a bit over my head, as we were no longer 20-22, but closer to 19. I gave it a good go then dropped off to the back. After a few more miles we came to a U turn. Again they were slow and disorganized through the turn, and I found myself back up front. Now we were taking wind on the chin. There was a rest stop about 1.5 miles ahead, so I hammered into it the best I could, and stopped at the rest stop. They continued on.

I chatted them up at the finish. They were very gracious and said they appreciated the pull in the wind. They were genuine.

This particular group didn't mind someone latching on, but I wondered as all of this was going on what the right thing to do was. During the first few miles, a lot of different groups formed and dissipated somewhat naturally as everyone was finding their groove. With so much changing so rapidly, it would have been out of place to ask about joining in.

I am interested in your thoughts.

Iride01 

Teams? was this a competition or just a local organized ride?

The teams were probably just members of some cycling club. And if this wasn't a race, then it's perfectly okay to join in if you think you are about their speed. Though I always ask either the person whose wheel I get on or the person falling back if it's okay for me to tag on and then ask what their criteria is for a pull.

No, you shouldn't have opened up a space for the other member falling back if you were the last one in the group. Though I suppose you can offer that spot to them if you think perhaps they may be spouses or two that like to engage each other in conversation during the ride. I've never had any that seemed to care about a specific position. Some might like for you to tell them that you are last as they fall back so they don't have to look behind and figure out where the end of the group is. If in fact you are the last of that group.

Some groups are more serious about their riding even on a charity ride that isn't supposed to be a race. But usually you can tell which pacelines those are. And if you ask, then you'll know.

A few weekends ago there was a local charity ride here and none of the people I normally ride as a group with could make it. So after the start when a group that looked about my level passed by I ask and tagged on. It was mostly a group of the local cycling club with their club jerseys on. If I hadn't gotten in a group then the 65 mile ride probably would have taken me 35 to 45 more minutes longer solo. Maybe even as much as an hour longer.

datlas 

Common courtesy says you should ask if ok to join the group. If you are a steady rider they will likely say ok 9 times out of 10. Assuming ok, take your pulls and don’t make gaps.

Paul Barnard

This was a local charity event. These guys were sporting their club jerseys.

I will always ask if I approach a random group, but as things kinda got shuffled out during the early going, I simply found myself with them.

tempocyclist

Sounds like you did fine. 🙂

If possible it's always good to ask though. Just a quick "mind if I work in with you guys" or something like that. Most bunches are happy to let others work in with them during Sportive events like that, especially if you're smooth, a similar strength, and happy to take your turn on the front.

I wouldn't have opened up a space. I'd prefer to work in and work up the line to take a pull. They might have got a little annoyed if you just tagged on the back wheelsucking the whole way. Depends on the group though I guess.

EDIT FOR EXTRA INFO: I've only every seen one group that didn't want others to join. They had a "backmarker" guy who would tell anyone trying to work-in or tag on to back off. Thought that was a little rude for an open roads cycling event, but each to their own I guess.

Paul Barnard

I sorta hinted at this in the OP. I knew they were just a bit stronger than me, so I was worried that when my time came to pull that I would slow them down. After the event when I was talking to them, I told them that concerned me. This particular group was very good natured about it and said they wouldn't have cared if I would have hung out back the whole ride. That's what got me thinking about checking with the group here to see how others think about it.

cxwrench

Why ask here? You should have asked on the road. It's always good to communicate. If you're not sure, ask. If you're riding with a group, don't hammer them into the ground. Ask what kind of pace they want to ride. Talk...always talk. Even if it's a real race, talk. I raced Masters 1/2/3 forever and we always talked to each other, especially the guys that knew each other after years of racing together. We'd talk about everything...pace, strategy, ****...all the time.

Koyote

Fine with me and with the folks with whom I ride, as long as you can handle yourself in a paceline and maintain the pace.

No. If you do that each time, then you never go up front to take a pull, and hence you're a freeloader. Don't be a freeloader.

PS: You didn't ask, but here are a few other tips for charity rides: pay the fee, wear a jersey, and -- above all else -- if you find some dumpster vodka, share it with the rest of the riders in your paceline.

roadcrankr

You did great, man. I went through something remarkably similar at the Palm Springs century fifteen years ago.
My buddy and I latched onto a combination of a Volvo squad and some Simple Green riders, hauling arse.
No time to handle any pleasantries. Double paceline with some stiff winds on a relatively flat course with a few sections of rough pavement.
We probably took a few turns at the front, which got either of us close to coming off, after drifting off toward the back.
We finished the 104 miles in just under five hours, after letting those animals go around the sixty-mile mark and catching our breath at a rest stop.
Yucked it up with those fellas at the post-ride BBQ. They recognized us from SoCal Saturday group rides.

qnz

I feel like teams with matching jerseys are more serious so it would've been more proper to ask if you can hop on the train.
If it was a group of friends + randoms that start to form together, I still announce myself when I jump in, but i've never been told no yet.

Zaskar

I kinda split it like this:
- if the team (or club that looks like a team) is in an event - race, ride, fondo, etc., you can absolutely work in, even without asking. But still ask - it's a good conversation starter. If you struggling to keep their pace, take shorter pulls. If you can't keep their pace, fall back and look for the next group. Leaving a gap for that rider that just pulled can be a little disruptive as they have to quickly figure out if you're just off a bit or letting them it. Or worse, they have to (re)accelerate to jump in. Punchline, don't just hang on the back.
- outside of any event, i.e., just a weekend ride, and you come up a group, definitely (!) ask if you can work in.

Sounds like you did everything right!

tomato coupe

I think you did the right thing in this situation, with this particular group. But, a second group might get pissed at you for not taking pulls, a third group might insist you stay on the back, because they don't trust someone in the pace line that they don't know, and a fourth group might get pissed because your jersey doesn't match. You need to take the temperature of each group and adjust accordingly.

GhostRider62

What I do is go right to the front and take a long pull, if they ride my wheel, I consider that my invite. It is not unusual for a group to stay off and therefore, I conclude they want to be left alone.

Paul Barnard

"Take the temperature" is a good way to describe what I did. As the ride started, there were about 250 of us. A large "peloton" of really fast riders broke away after about a mile. From there more groups started forming. I was with about 25 when 1/3 pulled away, 1/3 fell off the back and then there was this team that I found myself with. They were glancing around, I knew they knew I was there. Everything worked out well.

Reflector Guy

If one of them reaches over and shifts your bike into the hardest gear, or jams a tire pump into your spokes, that's usually a sign they'd rather not have you along.

Elvo

You also don't have to take a full pull, although it is highly recommended. But you must rotate and close the gaps.

datlas 

Yeah, probably not a good idea to jump in with Team Cinzano.

Paul Barnard

It has been a LONG time since I took off with a big pack. I had forgotten how glorious it is to be pulled along so effortlessly in a large group.

Broctoon

I've been in situations like this many times. The events I ride are either non-competitive for the most part or they have separate categories for race and sportive entries.

Occasionally I've found myself solo and encountered a group that I want to join, to benefit from their draft. More often, I'm with a friend and we want to merge with another small group for everyone's mutual benefit.

I think communication is key, as mentioned above. We always approach the group and ask "You guys want to work together?" We've had others approach us with the same question. (When I'm solo I'll phrase it , "You mind if I join you?) I don't recall ever getting a negative reply.

Quite often, I'm not able hang with them for long. I'll ride with them for maybe a few miles or sometimes for 10 or 15 miles and take my fair turns on front, but I'm not very strong, so eventually they pull ahead and I cannot keep pace. I've often talked with groups at the next aid station, checkpoint, relay exchange, or at the end of the ride, and have had only positive feedback there. Nobody has ever said, "What were you thinking, trying to ride in our paceline? You're too slow. You were just in our way." Rather, it's always been something like "It was nice riding with you back there. Thanks for joining. You doing okay?"

Theoretically, there might be some elitist snobs who would take offense at a guy like me asking to join... but I've never encountered them. This might be because they were really moving, whether in the race category or just sportives with their own big group--either way, too fast for me and my buddy to cross paths with them. Paul Barnard, I wouldn't sweat what transpired yesterday. It sounds like no harm-no foul for everyone involved.

Also, I've never been in line with a group that stuck to a really strict rotation for long. They'll spread out a little in turns or descents, someone will come off the front but not return all the way to the rear, maybe someone moves to the left for a minute to talk to a friend or grab a snack out of his pocket, something like that. I guess the kind of guys I ride with are not super serious about it, so I would not find it upsetting to see the minor irregularities you describe.

Paul Barnard

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The guys I chatted with after the ride were great. We shook hands and shot the bull for a bit. I learned something in this thread. I have seen the word "sportive" used before, but never knew what it was until it was used in this thread.

Broctoon

It’s technically cyclosportive but sometimes gets abbreviated. I think it’s a French term that means “just for fun.” Oui, oui, mon frére!

tomato coupe

If a group asks you to stay out of their pace line, it doesn't mean they're elitist snobs. Many cyclists are uncomfortable drafting the wheel of a stranger, but that's what you're asking them to do.

Paul Barnard

You might say that "for the fun of it" resonates with me.

Broctoon

Correct. It also doesn’t mean they’re not. So maybe there are some really nice guys who just don’t want me in their way. That’s not the hypothetical example I chose to mention. I’ve not encountered a group from either type who replied negatively.

tomato coupe

It also doesn't mean they're not child molesters, but why assume the worst of people?