Wildasincycles

I have had a frame hanging for awhile, trying to figure out what it might be. No decals, holes in the headtube looks like it may have had a riveted headbadge. French thread bottom bracket, campy dropouts front and rear, 27.0 seatpost. Chrome fork and bottom of rear stays, frame doesn’t look like it is full chrome. No braze ons, all guides were clamp on. The bike came to me with 600 arabesque, 27” wheels, stronglight competition headset. I will post some pics, maybe we can figure it out.

Chombi1 

The wrap around seat stay tops also suggests it could be British......
But the fork crown and domed stay ends are common on French bikes.....

dddd

Motobecane?

juvela

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the 27.0 pillar size and the metric shell do not go together

normally one would expect a metric shell machine built with first quality DB tubing to express a 26.6 pillar size

possible seat tube has been reamed post manufacture

the three main national origins for a metric shell are France, Spain and Switzerland
there were also a few makers in Belgium who use this standard

another check you could make is tube diameters
one would expect a metric shell frameset to be constructed with metric dimension tubing of 26.0 top tube and 25.0 steerer paired with 28.0 down tube and seat tube

have you located a serial?

fork crown is Vagner model DP+

appears it may date from early 1970's


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T-Mar

+1. A 27.0mm sear post does not correspond to a metric/French standard frame, given the apparent era. Many of the companies that used metric standard tubesets did switch to imperial but that wasn't until the mid to late 1980s. This one would appear to be at least a decade older based on the long Campagnolo dropouts and absence of braze-ons. What is the thread standard stamped on the bottom bracket cups?

Wildasincycles

So, I am terrible at gathering info, sorry. Used a caliper and not a seatpost/eyeball to determine it takes a 26.6 post. Seat and downtube OD is 28, toptube OD is 26. There are what appears to be 2 serial numbers. The underside of the bottom bracket has 52179 stamped in the center with a small sideways “s” above it. Off to the side near the chainstay lug is stamped “k43”. The inside of the drive side dropout has what looks like “70916CI”, but some have been scraped by the axle.

juvela

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thank you for this new information

it should advance the exploration

possible that one of the markings you found on the underside of the bottom bracket may have been put in by a licensing agency

the marking on the dropout is likely to be from the manufacturer

perhaps member MauriceMoss will have some ideas on your frame


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T-Mar

The new info is certainly making this sound like a Motobecane, as previously suggested by dddd. It's a pretty good match for a circa 1973 Le Champion.

scarlson 

Is the fork also French threaded? Does a 22.2 stem fit in it? Or does it need a 22.0?

juvela

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here is the U.S. market catalogue page for the Le Champion of 1973

recall the Motos of that year as coming with the plastic headplate with its fasteners arranged vertically




the fastener holes on the subject frame are arranged horizontally suggesting it might be a '74 when the round headplates came in

here is the head of a '73 Le Champion with its plastic headplate and vertically arranged fasteners -



not a Moto expert so delighted to defer to those with greater knowledge


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T-Mar

I appreciate your comments and don't disagree. I couldn't come up with an exact match myself. That's why I stated :"circa 1973" (i.e. approximately 1973) and "pretty good match".

The multiple numbering on the shell, in conjuction with another set on the rear dropout, is typical of Motobécane or at least product manufactured at their the Pantin facility. The combination of domed stay ends and Campagnolo dropouts pointed to a Grand Record, Le Champion or equivalent.

As you noted, the rectangular head badge was in use in 1973 with the round badge coming into use for 1974. However, looking at the 1974 catalogues, both models lost the extensive rear triangle chroming that year, never to return, so the OP's bicycle would appear to be earlier.

The Grand Record typically came with the more elaborate Nervex Professional lug set, while the Le Champion typically used the simpler Prugnat Professional. so that's why I'm leaning towards the Le Champion. However, we have seen instances of the Grand Record that used the Prugnat Professional lug set, so a Grand Record can't be ruled out.

If we assume it is USA market, the combination of extensive rear triangle chrome and horizontally aligned badge mounting holes, suggests a model from possibly the 1973-1974 transitional period. Of course, it could also be another brand produced by Motobécane or a foreign market model, both of which would make it much more difficult to find a match (unless you're MauriceMoss).

BTW, the 1973 catalogue pics that surface are always the poor, B&W version from the Bulgier site. I have an original copy of that catalogue in my personal archives. Here's a better, colour copy of the subject page for your files.

stardognine

Woohoo! It's like getting color TV, all over again. 😁😉 I wonder what the kids today would think, about watching black & white TV. 🙄😁

Hummer

Motobecane Le Champion headbadge



I think the rivet holes may match.

Here is a link to another Le Champion:

Motobecane Le Champion 53cm 1975