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What did I miss while on 'vacation'?

Old 11-10-22, 09:14 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I just realized that if they'd had duel control levers in the 18th century, Alexander Hamilton would still be alive.
...do you really think he would have lived to be 300 years old ? I know he looks pretty good in the Broadway musical, but still.
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Old 11-10-22, 09:16 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Well, here comes the brifter gulag.
...everybody talkin' 'bout heaven ain't goin' there. Gonna walk all over God's heaven.
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Old 11-10-22, 09:17 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
That's not a bad idea. When I was in the working world, I was nicest to my colleagues when I was in charge of them.
...you don't think that was because they knew where your office was ?
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Old 11-10-22, 10:38 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...do you really think he would have lived to be 300 years old ? I know he looks pretty good in the Broadway musical, but still.

Reminds me of the time I was teaching an undergraduate class and was surprised to find out that pretty much none of the students had any idea that France was involved in the American Revolution. I said "if it wasn't for the French navy, we'd all be speaking English today." The room was split between people chuckling, quizzical looks, and a couple people explaining the joke to their confused friends.
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Old 11-10-22, 10:56 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by BillyD
Glad you got a laugh out of it.
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Old 11-10-22, 11:35 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I just realized that if they'd had duel control levers in the 18th century, Alexander Hamilton would still be alive.
It was worth wading through this thread's narcissistic internet drama just for one good pun. Chapeau.
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Old 11-11-22, 07:10 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by BillyD
"rude and insulting behavior, and you find it ok. So this message apples to everybody."
Thank you, very helpful in securing the forum's future which depends on newbies who all to often have their imperfectly formulated inquiry needlessly critiqued in such a way they do not return.
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Old 11-11-22, 09:38 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by easyupbug
Thank you, very helpful in securing the forum's future which depends on newbies who all to often have their imperfectly formulated inquiry needlessly critiqued in such a way they do not return.
Call me cynical, but I question the genuineness of noobs who come in to ask if the nose of their seat is supposed to face the front or the back.
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Old 11-11-22, 10:29 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
Glad you got a laugh out of it.
I thought the notion of letting you be an admin was pretty laughable as well.
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Old 11-11-22, 11:13 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I was nicest to my colleagues when I was in charge of them.
Sounds like you’re proud of that character flaw.
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Old 11-11-22, 11:23 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Call me cynical, but I question the genuineness of noobs who come in to ask if the nose of their seat is supposed to face the front or the back.
You should go on an ambulance ride along. You will never again question the ability of people to do amazingly wrong and dangerous things.
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Old 11-11-22, 11:43 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Sounds like you’re proud of that character flaw.

Being nice to subordinates is a character flaw?!

Sounds like you wanted to say something judgmental so bad that you didn't even read what he wrote before responding.
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Old 11-11-22, 11:45 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Being nice to subordinates is a character flaw?!

Sounds like you wanted to say something judgmental so bad that you didn't even read what he wrote before responding.
Maybe you should have read what he wrote. He should have been nice to them whether or not they were his subordinates.
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Old 11-11-22, 11:55 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Call me cynical, but I question the genuineness of noobs who come in to ask if the nose of their seat is supposed to face the front or the back.

Was that a real thread?

I don't think the problematic newbies are the ones who pose questions that are "too basic". The ones who are a problem are those thar post a question just so they can trash the people who try to answer it as snobs or haters or whatever when they don't like the answers or they just want to be contrarians.
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Old 11-11-22, 12:03 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Maybe you should have read what he wrote. He should have been nice to them whether or not they were his subordinates.

I guess I have to explain to you what ordinals mean. Saying "I'm nicest to x" does not imply I am not nice to y. "Nice, nicer, nicest." See how that works?

And if the principle is "the more power I have over someone, the nicer I should be", that sounds like the opposite of a character flaw. It's an acknowledgment that one needs to be careful about respectfully exercising that power.

Maybe you shouldn't read straw man stuff into what people write.
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Old 11-11-22, 01:24 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
That's not a bad idea. When I was in the working world, I was nicest to my colleagues when I was in charge of them.
Originally Posted by smd4
Sounds like you’re proud of that character flaw.
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Being nice to subordinates is a character flaw?!

Sounds like you wanted to say something judgmental so bad that you didn't even read what he wrote before responding.
Originally Posted by smd4
Maybe you should have read what he wrote. He should have been nice to them whether or not they were his subordinates.
smd4 , you are really struggling to find an insult. Do you understand that the words "nice" and "nicest" mean two different things? Nothing in my statement suggests, even obliquely, that I was not nice to my colleagues when I was not in charge of them.

I was "nicest" to my colleagues when I was in charge of them, in part because I could be nicer, especially in comparison to my predecessor -- by taking their ideas more seriously and actually implementing them, by using more of my budget for their professional development and other needs, by more strongly advocating for our department to the higher-level administrators.

PS: In my field (academia), people choose their leaders. Academic departments have some say (often absolute, with no administrative interference) in choosing their chairs, the faculty have substantial influence over the hiring of an Academic Dean or Provost, etc. Suffice it to say that, if you're not nice to your colleagues, you're unlikely to be chosen or elected to such positions. I'm proud to have held many such positions over my career.

Last edited by Koyote; 11-11-22 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 11-11-22, 01:28 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by dedhed
Meh, some people need thicker skin.

Apparently some people don't recall user "sydney" (RIP) and his "style" dealing with "muppets"
Did someone say muppets?
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Old 11-11-22, 01:50 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Call me cynical, but I question the genuineness of noobs who come in to ask if the nose of their seat is supposed to face the front or the back.
Trolls like that are obvious and I would just ignore them if they ask something that outlandish. If a newbie asks a "stupid question", I usually give them the benefit of the doubt. If they have a couple hundred posts here already, then they're fair game, IMO.

To be clear, I am very used to cxwrench and have known him for quite awhile over on Roadbikereview. I would describe him more as heavy handed than toxic. Very knowledgeable asset to a bike forum and I agree needs to lighten up with the newbies. But just about anybody on RBR will tell you there is minimal moderation and the biking forums there are all but dead. I came over here last month to see what was going on. This forum appears to be thriving.
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Old 11-11-22, 01:57 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Trolls like that are obvious and I would just ignore them if they ask something that outlandish.
And some of those newbie trolls are actually seasoned users who've been suspended and are coming back as sock puppets.
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Old 11-11-22, 02:09 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
And some of those newbie trolls are actually seasoned users who've been suspended and are coming back as sock puppets.
Did you say sock puppets?

Seriously, if you really feel this is the case, it's easy enough to report them............even if it isn't as much fun.
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Old 11-11-22, 02:11 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Did you say sock puppets?

Seriously, if you really feel this is the case, it's easy enough to report them............even if it isn't as much fun.
Sorry, maybe sock puppet isn't the precise term(?)

Yeah, I have reported one that I recall. A moderator responded that they'd looked at the account and were sure that it wasn't a recently-suspended user...Then a few weeks later, the account was suspended because...Well, you guessed it.
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Old 11-11-22, 09:16 PM
  #72  
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Old 11-11-22, 09:46 PM
  #73  
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Shouldn't this thread be in "Bicycle Mechanics"?
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Old 11-12-22, 07:20 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
And some of those newbie trolls are actually seasoned users who've been suspended and are coming back as sock puppets.

I propose that the newbies who just post one ridiculous question just to troll be referred to as "pop suckits".
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Old 11-12-22, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyD
Hi guys, first of all I must remind you that we never, EVER discuss the particulars of a disciplinary action in public. That is private information, even if only by the fact that it is delivered in a private message (PM). But that’s not what I’m going to do here. This is just an ideal opportunity to discuss some related forum norms here.

In reading through this thread we are actually surprised at what appears to be acceptance of rude behavior amongst many of you senior posters here. You clearly recognize it for what it is, rude and insulting behavior, and you find it ok. So this message apples to everybody.

Look, I get it, there is nothing like the camaraderie built up amongst guys in the locker room of athletic pursuits. BF is actually a virtual locker room where you senior guys can hang out and horse around and be the ruffians that testosterone tends to make us. All that is fine, I love it! Usually, in real locker rooms, it’s also typical to give the rookies or newbies a hard time, bust their chops, ostensibly to see if they deserve inclusion in the cherished group of regulars. But we can’t allow that here. These forums rely on a steady stream of new users to remain viable. We can’t have the senior guys beating up on the junior guys. These new guys didn’t come here with the expectation of getting roughed up, they came here either to join the club or they came here for information.

So maybe you guys need to keep the roughhousing to yourselves and treat our new guys with considerably more respect. That shouldn’t be difficult, you can view how many posts a user has right with his userID. It shouldn’t be difficult to be respectful to ANYONE, but it’s particularly harmful to be rude, nasty, or disrespectful to our newbies. I must admit, this is a particularly pet peeve of BillyD. I sort of see it as bullying, and I hate bullying. (Everybody has baggage, that’s just mine.) So please be nice to our newbies, they didn’t come here to get insulted or otherwise mistreated. You all had dumb questions when you were new in this game, be patient and let them fire theirs off. If you don’t like a “dumb question”, move on to a different thread. If you see a thread topic that is well worn, like "I'm hunting for a new bike, what frame material is best?" or "what chain lube should I use?", or "do red socks make me faster?", JUST MOVE ON, find another thread more to your liking. Don’t be a locker room bully, don’t be a dick. Be especially nice to our newbies. I’m afraid we must insist.

I generally agree with this--attacking a newbie for asking too basic a question is just not useful to anyone. I would much rather risk being trolled into giving a sincere response to an insincere question than risk insulting a sincere kid or someone else not able to work google for whatever reason. Also, it seems that oftentimes there's a subtle issue that makes the newby op atypical in some relevant way such that the standard answers you'd find with a google search just won't be adequate, and experience of other cyclists on the forum might be helpful.

However, there's also a type of newby that shouldn't be treated with kid gloves (staying withon forum rules, of course). It's the ones who post something that looks like a question, but are really " you're a sucker" insults. I'm paraphrasing here, but this is typical of the genre:

"Why do people spend so much on lightweight high-performance bikes when it's obvious that they'll get a better workout on a heavier cheaper bike?"

Some variation of that gets posted a couple times a year, generally by a newby, who isn't really looking for information, but has Dunning-Krugered himself into believing that he's here to enlighten us fools. Note that the form of the question assumes people are ignoring the dubious "obvious" fact, and isn't asking whether that "fact" is actually true. That newby came to play, and they're fair game for an argument in my book.
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