Tubeless - inner air bubble
#1
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Tubeless - inner air bubble
Hello
We have had an unusual problem with the rear wheel. We are riding a tandem and all of a sudden the rear wheel starts giving us a bumpy ride even though there does not seem to be anything wrong with the hub with the through axle. Also it makes this popping sound, like some plastic soda pop cover, but not regularly just once in a while usually at high speed.
It got to a point where it was really disrupting the ride and made us worried that the wheel will just fall apart.
Initially I thought it was the hub going bad but after I took the wheel off and removed the tire I looked inside, and I started peeling off the dried sealant from the inner walls. I got to place where I found an inner air bubble , probably 3 inches long 1 inch wide. When I squeezed the air bubble out, it seemed that the inner layer was somewhat different from the rest of the inner layer almost akin to a deep tissue muscle injury.
I have hypothesized that it happened maybe when we were riding over the rooty in the woods trail and maybe somehow the inner layer created separation where the air could enter and create a separate chamber.
that pocket became variable, depending on how much air or depending on how much rotation to wheel head, and that in turn created a bubble that made the wheel oval, and that was throwing things off.
today I have replaced the tire and we are going to test this and see if this was indeed the cause of the problem.
Has anyone ever experienced this with tubeless tires for the record the tire is WTB byway 44.
We have had an unusual problem with the rear wheel. We are riding a tandem and all of a sudden the rear wheel starts giving us a bumpy ride even though there does not seem to be anything wrong with the hub with the through axle. Also it makes this popping sound, like some plastic soda pop cover, but not regularly just once in a while usually at high speed.
It got to a point where it was really disrupting the ride and made us worried that the wheel will just fall apart.
Initially I thought it was the hub going bad but after I took the wheel off and removed the tire I looked inside, and I started peeling off the dried sealant from the inner walls. I got to place where I found an inner air bubble , probably 3 inches long 1 inch wide. When I squeezed the air bubble out, it seemed that the inner layer was somewhat different from the rest of the inner layer almost akin to a deep tissue muscle injury.
I have hypothesized that it happened maybe when we were riding over the rooty in the woods trail and maybe somehow the inner layer created separation where the air could enter and create a separate chamber.
that pocket became variable, depending on how much air or depending on how much rotation to wheel head, and that in turn created a bubble that made the wheel oval, and that was throwing things off.
today I have replaced the tire and we are going to test this and see if this was indeed the cause of the problem.
Has anyone ever experienced this with tubeless tires for the record the tire is WTB byway 44.
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Can’t say I have. Really don;t understand about what the ‘inner layer’ is referring to. I run two bikes tubeless and and all there is is the rim, rim tape, sealant and tire. There is no inner layer. Pictures would help
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I think he means sealant that has formed a dried film on the inside of the tire, and that this had somehow created an air pocket inclusion.
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I had a WTB Nano gravel tire do something that sounds similar to this. I didn't feel anything, but started to hear a "squish, squish, squish" type sounds.
After removing the tire and examining, It had a large delaminated area inside that was also slit. To be clear, this was the tire lamination, not a dried layer of sealant.
The squishing noise was likely sealant being moved in and out of this every rotation. The tire had about 1,600 miles on it and most of this road rather than off-road. So, pretty easy miles and lots of tread left. I don't think it developed after an incident of any sort. It likley was just the constant flexing of the tire. I contacted WTB about it to see if there was something I did wrong such as running too low an air pressure. As I recall their response was basically, "it happens."
I also recall the tire was "weeping" more and more sealant as time when on. By weeping, I mean a very thin, clear, and slightly oily fluid was weeping out. I believe through extremely small holes. Something too small to plug up with the latex of the sealant, but the thin carrier or solvent used in the sealant could leak through. I have a completely different tire and sealant on a bike now doing the same thing, but after about 2,500 miles. Point is, I think this weeping is a sign of the breakdown of the tire or perhaps its just what happens to the many small punctures that seal after thousands of miles.
I would also agree that hitting things like potholes could damage a tire internally.
After removing the tire and examining, It had a large delaminated area inside that was also slit. To be clear, this was the tire lamination, not a dried layer of sealant.
The squishing noise was likely sealant being moved in and out of this every rotation. The tire had about 1,600 miles on it and most of this road rather than off-road. So, pretty easy miles and lots of tread left. I don't think it developed after an incident of any sort. It likley was just the constant flexing of the tire. I contacted WTB about it to see if there was something I did wrong such as running too low an air pressure. As I recall their response was basically, "it happens."
I also recall the tire was "weeping" more and more sealant as time when on. By weeping, I mean a very thin, clear, and slightly oily fluid was weeping out. I believe through extremely small holes. Something too small to plug up with the latex of the sealant, but the thin carrier or solvent used in the sealant could leak through. I have a completely different tire and sealant on a bike now doing the same thing, but after about 2,500 miles. Point is, I think this weeping is a sign of the breakdown of the tire or perhaps its just what happens to the many small punctures that seal after thousands of miles.
I would also agree that hitting things like potholes could damage a tire internally.
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#6
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This sounds more likely than having a bubble in the sealant. I think the tire is toast because the carcass has been compromised and air is able to get past the threads.
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+1 to delamination.
You probably took a hit from something hard/sharp; not small or pointy enough to puncture the tire and cause a flat, but put enough load / deformation on one small spot , to compromise the layers of the carcass.
Had it happen before, on both vehicles, and bicycles; generally, though it creates an external bulge, especially on traditional tubed bicycle tires.
You probably took a hit from something hard/sharp; not small or pointy enough to puncture the tire and cause a flat, but put enough load / deformation on one small spot , to compromise the layers of the carcass.
Had it happen before, on both vehicles, and bicycles; generally, though it creates an external bulge, especially on traditional tubed bicycle tires.
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Hello
We have had an unusual problem with the rear wheel. We are riding a tandem and all of a sudden the rear wheel starts giving us a bumpy ride even though there does not seem to be anything wrong with the hub with the through axle. Also it makes this popping sound, like some plastic soda pop cover, but not regularly just once in a while usually at high speed.
It got to a point where it was really disrupting the ride and made us worried that the wheel will just fall apart.
Initially I thought it was the hub going bad but after I took the wheel off and removed the tire I looked inside, and I started peeling off the dried sealant from the inner walls. I got to place where I found an inner air bubble , probably 3 inches long 1 inch wide. When I squeezed the air bubble out, it seemed that the inner layer was somewhat different from the rest of the inner layer almost akin to a deep tissue muscle injury.
I have hypothesized that it happened maybe when we were riding over the rooty in the woods trail and maybe somehow the inner layer created separation where the air could enter and create a separate chamber.
that pocket became variable, depending on how much air or depending on how much rotation to wheel head, and that in turn created a bubble that made the wheel oval, and that was throwing things off.
today I have replaced the tire and we are going to test this and see if this was indeed the cause of the problem.
Has anyone ever experienced this with tubeless tires for the record the tire is WTB byway 44.
We have had an unusual problem with the rear wheel. We are riding a tandem and all of a sudden the rear wheel starts giving us a bumpy ride even though there does not seem to be anything wrong with the hub with the through axle. Also it makes this popping sound, like some plastic soda pop cover, but not regularly just once in a while usually at high speed.
It got to a point where it was really disrupting the ride and made us worried that the wheel will just fall apart.
Initially I thought it was the hub going bad but after I took the wheel off and removed the tire I looked inside, and I started peeling off the dried sealant from the inner walls. I got to place where I found an inner air bubble , probably 3 inches long 1 inch wide. When I squeezed the air bubble out, it seemed that the inner layer was somewhat different from the rest of the inner layer almost akin to a deep tissue muscle injury.
I have hypothesized that it happened maybe when we were riding over the rooty in the woods trail and maybe somehow the inner layer created separation where the air could enter and create a separate chamber.
that pocket became variable, depending on how much air or depending on how much rotation to wheel head, and that in turn created a bubble that made the wheel oval, and that was throwing things off.
today I have replaced the tire and we are going to test this and see if this was indeed the cause of the problem.
Has anyone ever experienced this with tubeless tires for the record the tire is WTB byway 44.
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#9
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I understand your difficulty. That is why it took me a few times to diagnose the cause as well. All is good now. Yesterday we did 30 miles with the new tire.
#10
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Yep that happened to me on a pair of Schwalbe Marathons. But this bubble formed on the outside of the tire in the sidewall.
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Internal damage to the tire casing may not be apparent if the tire is unloaded (ie, inspecting it on the stand). It seems to me that the puncture resistant layers in a lot of heavy-duty/commuter tires could keep an external bulge restrained, but when the soft spot in the casing is at BDC, it would give more than the surrounding material, causing a “bump” down
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Some tires do have an inner, airtight layer; these can be run without sealant, if one should so desire. I think that these are kind of going away, though, as most people pop in sealant, at the point of installing the tires, as a matter of course.
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In 2017 I bought a Trek Domane( a wonderful bike) with Trek tubeless ready tires set up tubeless. At the time I was already very experienced with tubeless ready tires. Unfortunately when the tires on the bike started to form bubbles on both the front and rear tires, it was in the middle of the Covid crap. I called the Trek store and their response was " make an appointment and bring the bike in and after a week or so we'll fix it. At the time it was my only ridable bike. While I really like my Domane, I absolutely hate dealing with factory stores. I just bit the bullet and bought some Continental 5000 TLR's and have never had a problem.
Last edited by don compton; 01-04-23 at 08:37 PM. Reason: correction