Phil2B

Hi. I'm new on this forum, & I start an investigation to know who made a bike I've bought a few years ago in Nice, french riviera.
It was in bad esthetic state & I made it respray by Levacon cycles. It's made with Columbus MS tubing (so should be mid/end 80's?) with italian BB thread.
I thought it had been made by Cattaneo, but someboby better advised than me says it's not possible.
On the fork & on the top of the BB, there's a "C" engraved inside a pentagon. Could you tell me more about this frame?
Unfortunately, I can't post any picture here, before having posted several messages.
Thanks a lot for any info.
Best regards.
Philippe

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machinist42

Album.

bikingshearer 

According to a quick Google search, it appears that there is a "La Roue Libre" bike shop in Nice.

Address: 20 boulevard de l'armee des alpes, Nice, France.
Phone number: +33 4 93 89 62 26.
E-mail: larouelibre.nice@gmail.com.

Here is a link to their website.

They may or may not be able to tell you anything about your bike, but it is worth asking them.

Good luck. And please report back what you find out. People here would love to know more.

Bianchigirll 

Too bad you repainted it before finding out what it was. It may have lost a lot of value

BTinNYC 

The shifter mount should be a good lead.

Fredo76

Looks great! Looking forward to your build.

Classtime 

Nice paint job and a very cool frame. But, stick around here a while and the next bike you pick up in that “bad esthetic state” might not get a re-paint.

joluja 

The C looks like the C used by Cavalera but they had more of a star symbol outline I thought. Looks very well made and someone thought it special enough to outfit in Campagnolo C record. Very cool frame and find!

unworthy1

unfortunately that shifter mount was not strictly unique, there were a few makes that used it when "aero" cable routing was a thing. Mainly Italian examples and I don't recall any I have seen that began with a "C" (in a pentagon or not).
Wish I could find the thread that included a number of examples but I think there are other details (like the panto "C" as well as all those "socketed" ends) that would be even better clues.
Maybe the genius we call @MauriceMoss could be encouraged to chime in?

MauriceMoss

Hi Philippe and welcome to BikeForums!

Whoever told you that your frame couldn't be a Cattaneo is correct. This is actually a Cavallo (Riccardo) of Cuneo (not to be confused with Cavallo Marino, a French marque by Jean-Louis Picca and Philippe Sauret).








Your frame might have originally looked something like this (with a Dossena paint job):

juvela

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right out the stadium them thar pitches continue to fly...

...off the bat of league batting champion Maurice!



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unworthy1

Wow! That Mr. Moss is doggone GOOD!

juvela

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...hope you are not suggesting he dineth upon Dr. Ross canine repastments...


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79pmooney

@Phil2B, a gentle correction on your title. You say "welded". Your frame (and until TIG welding, virtually all quality steel frames) is brazed. Welding is the process of heating the metal to melting temperature (or very close) and adding more melted similar metal and letting it cool. So the end result of two pieces of steel being welded is one piece of all steel. Brazing on the other hand is the process of flowing melted dissimilar metal between and/or around the parts to be joined but those parts are only heated enough to allow the lower temperature filler to flow into place. The final part is still two distinct original parts with a thin film or built-up bedding of the different filler. (And can be taken apart at any time by simply reheating and pulling away one of the original parts.

Yes, I am being picky but to engineers and the like, the difference is very important and to many here, a source of judgement on the poster. (We all know what you meant.) There is also a fundamental difference in the labor required to fabricate quality frames. Welding - cut frames to correct miter and cutaway at the mating surfaces. Line up, heat and add weld. Brazing - those beautiful lugs want to be a close fit to both tubes being joined for proper braze material flow. This may require quite a bit of work, especially with the older, cruder lugs. Both the actual welding and brazing take real, if quite different, skill.

I am neither a welder or brazer. I leave that to others. I do have a custom brazed frame (my namesake Peter Mooney), a bunch of production brazed frames and two welded titanium frames. Also used to work for a shipyard that built big ocean going welded barges. Many were 400 feet long and were (after welding) one piece of steel weighing roughly 4000 tons. (An impressive operation that happened many times each barge was welding 40 foot (12m) long plates of 1 inch (25mm) steel to its neighbors.)

juvela

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in British terminology lugless fillet-brazed frames are said to be "welded"


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79pmooney

I just learned something. Thanks. (My engineer's brain will never adopt that though,)

juvela

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thanks so much for your very clear an thorough post regarding heating up metals until they get stuck together

greatly appreciated by me as have zero technical background


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MauriceMoss

Why, thank you kindly!

Claude.fr

Neither will mine.

For French it’s Braser, Verb
The American z merely replace a s to give unambiguously a z sound.

Brasage (un) : action of brazing.
Brasure (une) : brazed joint.

Souder is to weld.
Soudage, welding.
Soudure : welded joint.
Soudeur : welder.

For engineer’s brain only
French differentiation
Brasage doux (Soft brazing) tin-lead, low temperature brazing, typically copper.
Soldering in English ?
and
Brasage fort (Hard brazing) high temperature, steel.

Different skill sets, different tools, different jobs.

unworthy1

Not a bit!
And "not a speck of cereal" either but that's another (unrelated) dog food ref...
No I just had a brain hiccup with "Mr Moss" and the old Dr. Ross jingle, and the undeniable fact that he sure IS doggone GOOD!

juvela

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for readers outside California and/or under the age of seventy Dr. Ross was a southern California based dog food product line

they had a big fire at their plant several decades ago and ceased play permanently

their slogan was "Dr. Ross dog food is doggone good!" ["woof"]


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