Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Racks......why arent there more.....and better....

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Racks......why arent there more.....and better....

Old 01-17-23, 08:55 PM
  #26  
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,810
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,017 Times in 571 Posts
Municipalities require car parking and sidewalks, so I don't think requiring bike racks would be unreasonable if there was demonstrable community need. Every free standing business might be unnecessary, but every strip mall might make sense. Like all zoning it should ideally be a community decision based on the needs of that community. And should allow reasonable flexibility to meet individual situations.

Bike racks would be a relatively minor imposition. In my rural area a business out on the highway recently had to rebuild after a fire. They were required to build 1/4 mile of sidewalk in front of their building. It's about 6 miles to the next piece of sidewalk and this expensive strip of concrete won't connect to another sidewalk in my lifetime. No one will ever walk on it. I'm sure they would rather have been required to add a bike rack.
jon c. is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 02:14 AM
  #27  
SurferRosa
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,592

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3854 Post(s)
Liked 6,448 Times in 3,188 Posts
Originally Posted by scale
I ride 1000+ miles a summer but refuse to stop anywhere or grocery shop despite there being a few grocery stores within a half mile. No racks.
If your grocery getter is a beautiful bicycle, then you can shop inside with it and nobody will care. I use the 1975 Motobécane Grand Record. It's gorgeous, and there's no way I would lock it outside anyway.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 09:29 AM
  #28  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
COSTA MESA – Cyclists in Costa Mesa will soon have to watch where they lean their bikes. The City Council voted unanimously Tuesday night to approve an ordinance that will ban the parking and locking of bicycles on public property. The ordinance is part of the city’s Homeless Task Force and the group’s look into quality-of-life issues for residents. The task force, created in January 2011 to address a large homeless population in Lions Park, has since removed a railing and picnic structure at the park where many homeless locked their belongings.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ocr...-property/amp/
This was done primarily to discourage homeless folks from locking their belongings in a manner that blocks public ways. But since it it includes poles, on sidewalks, it can apply to any bike.

​​​​​​​A few residents expressed concern to the council that the ordinance is too broadly written.
genec is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 11:54 AM
  #29  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,958

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,527 Times in 1,040 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa
If your grocery getter is a beautiful bicycle, then you can shop inside with it and nobody will care. I use the 1975 Motobécane Grand Record. It's gorgeous, and there's no way I would lock it outside anyway.
I suspect that in most establishments "nobody" will care how gorgeous a bicycle is, and permission for bringing it inside is up to the proprietor/store manager's policy, regardless of how valuable or gorgeous the bicycle owner may think his/her bicycle; store policy may have more to do with space restrictions, fire codes, cleanliness, or the mood of whomever is watching the door. Threatening to take your business elsewhere unless permission is granted to roll your bicycle down the aisle or park it next to your table will probably fall on deaf ears. There may be exceptions in businesses that cater to entitled bicyclists but don't expect "everybody" to be so tolerant.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:
Old 01-18-23, 12:25 PM
  #30  
SurferRosa
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,592

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3854 Post(s)
Liked 6,448 Times in 3,188 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I suspect that in most establishments "nobody" will care how gorgeous a bicycle is...
Actually, I think people care a lot about what customers look like. Well groomed and free of grime and debris goes a long way.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 02:46 PM
  #31  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,958

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,527 Times in 1,040 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Actually, I think people care a lot about what customers look like. Well groomed and free of grime and debris goes a long way.
True, but most people in charge of business establishments don't consider bicycles as part of their customers' attire, nor care if their human customers are emotionally attached to their bicycle, even if it is gorgeous.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 03:02 PM
  #32  
SurferRosa
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,592

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3854 Post(s)
Liked 6,448 Times in 3,188 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
most people in charge of business establishments don't consider bicycles as part of their customers' attire.
When they see me, they do.
SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 01-18-23, 04:27 PM
  #33  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,492

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2738 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times in 2,045 Posts
​​​​​​https://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibr...neJuly2017.pdf
dedhed is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 05:04 PM
  #34  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,958

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,527 Times in 1,040 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa
When they see me, they do.
Picture?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 05:21 PM
  #35  
SurferRosa
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,592

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3854 Post(s)
Liked 6,448 Times in 3,188 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Picture?
Imagine a 50 yr old cyclist in a wool sweater and cycling cap pushing a skinny bicycle, minding his own business, always getting out of other people's way, and not saying a word other than to quickly thank people when they say, "nice bike, I wouldn't lock it up either."
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 05:31 PM
  #36  
Rolla
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times in 1,439 Posts
I don't want my city government to require every retail establishment to purchase and install a bike rack. I mean, why stop there? Make them supply a lock, a charging station, and a repair stand, too. It's only money, right?

Seems to me it would be more effective to just talk to a few business owners or shopping center management and ask a few stores to go in on one, or start a Go Fund Me or something less intrusive than a law targeting small businesses.
Rolla is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 06:25 PM
  #37  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,501

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1480 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times in 437 Posts
Originally Posted by Rolla
I don't want my city government to require every retail establishment to purchase and install a bike rack. I mean, why stop there? Make them supply a lock, a charging station, and a repair stand, too. It's only money, right?

Seems to me it would be more effective to just talk to a few business owners or shopping center management and ask a few stores to go in on one, or start a Go Fund Me or something less intrusive than a law targeting small businesses.
If businesses can afford the price of real estate for free parking, then bike racks are good investments. NYC and Toronto studies found that increased bicycle traffic translates to improved business.

Last edited by Daniel4; 01-18-23 at 06:30 PM.
Daniel4 is offline  
Likes For Daniel4:
Old 01-18-23, 07:01 PM
  #38  
Calsun
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,280
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked 382 Times in 288 Posts
The only safe place to leave a bike is inside a metal locker and these are very expensive. It takes 10 seconds to cut through any bike lock using an inexpensive cordless grinder with a $5 cut-off wheel.
What I have done is develop a relationship with businesses so they would allow me to bring my bike inside while I shopped.

I buy my groceries with a car and buy enough to last my wife and I for at least two weeks. We combine the grocery run with other errands in the area and do not make a special trip for food items. A game changer for us was buying a 7 cu ft upright freezer at the start of the pandemic. It pulls less than 2 amps to run and so the electrical consumption is negligible. It hold 4-5 times as much as the freezer section of our fridge so we make trips downstairs to the big freezer and avoid making trips to grocery stores.

Our focus on our carbon footprint is with solar on the roof and a plug-in hybrid car and having reduced our meat and dairy consumption by 90%. If you ride a bike everywhere but eat the typical American diet that is very high in beef and pork you have done little to reduce your footprint.
Calsun is offline  
Likes For Calsun:
Old 01-19-23, 02:16 AM
  #39  
flangehead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 889

Bikes: 2017 Co-op ADV 1.1; ~1991 Novara Arriba; 1990 Fuji Palisade; mid-90's Moots Tandem; 1985 Performance Superbe

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 387 Post(s)
Liked 565 Times in 329 Posts
Though handicapped parking spots are required by law in my jurisdiction, many businesses go above and beyond to cater to other clientele:

Only available lockup at a big box electronics retailer.
flangehead is offline  
Likes For flangehead:
Old 01-19-23, 09:04 AM
  #40  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,958

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,527 Times in 1,040 Posts
Originally Posted by Calsun
The only safe place to leave a bike is inside a metal locker and these are very expensive. It takes 10 seconds to cut through any bike lock using an inexpensive cordless grinder with a $5 cut-off wheel.
What I have done is develop a relationship with businesses so they would allow me to bring my bike inside while I shopped.

I buy my groceries with a car and buy enough to last my wife and I for at least two weeks. We combine the grocery run with other errands in the area and do not make a special trip for food items. A game changer for us was buying a 7 cu ft upright freezer at the start of the pandemic. It pulls less than 2 amps to run and so the electrical consumption is negligible. It hold 4-5 times as much as the freezer section of our fridge so we make trips downstairs to the big freezer and avoid making trips to grocery stores.

Our focus on our carbon footprint is with solar on the roof and a plug-in hybrid car and having reduced our meat and dairy consumption by 90%. If you ride a bike everywhere but eat the typical American diet that is very high in beef and pork you have done little to reduce your footprint.
Your concern for the environment is noted, but it has little to do with the thread topic. People who claim that they would ride their bike to local destinations in order to reduce their carbon footprint, if only there were "good" bike racks installed in front of all businesses, aren't trying very hard.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 09:15 AM
  #41  
Robvolz 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 1,923

Bikes: several Eddy Merz (ride like Eddy, braze like Jim!)

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 1,786 Times in 653 Posts
I live in portland or. Certain biz are required to install a rack of some sort. The city will provide a boring one but most have a fun or themed one designed for them.

As a wine bar owner, mine was shaped like a barrel.

down the street at an orthodontist, the rack looked like braces.

maybe portland, being a platinum city is more bike friendly, but I would be turning away customers or be forced to allow bikes inside if I didn’t have a rack.
__________________
"Leave the gun. Take the Colnagos."
Robvolz is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 09:17 AM
  #42  
Troul 
Senior Member
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,341

Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,935 Times in 1,899 Posts
too much risk of being a victim of vandalism for the local area, therefore, I wouldn't require any business to accommodate such a thing. it might be more suitable for "nicer" areas, but those areas tend to have big SUVs & very little activity from cyclists.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
Troul is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 12:53 PM
  #43  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,501

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1480 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times in 437 Posts
Originally Posted by Calsun
...
What I have done is develop a relationship with businesses so they would allow me to bring my bike inside while I shopped.

....
If enough cyclists do that with the same business owners, one of the owners is going to get a light bulb moment and have bike racks installed outside rather than have all these bicycles inside their shops.
Daniel4 is offline  
Likes For Daniel4:
Old 01-19-23, 02:27 PM
  #44  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,958

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,527 Times in 1,040 Posts
I'd like to see pictures of successful business establishments that let any significant number of patrons bring "all these bicycles" inside the building while shopping or conducting business unless it was directly related to work on the bicycle.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 03:22 PM
  #45  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
As far as bike infrastructure that makes biking more friendly to the public, racks are a total non issue. Just park your bike lol, one of the cool parts of biking compared to cars is ability to post up anywhere.

A few months ago, I did have to pass up a place for lunch because there was literally noting O could see that would have been a good place to lock my bike--not even a street sign. And I am not at all picky. But it was a weird exceptional experience, though. More commonly, in urban environments, I will find all of the plausible places to lock up taken up by other bikes.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 09:47 PM
  #46  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,958

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,527 Times in 1,040 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
A few months ago, I did have to pass up a place for lunch because there was literally noting O could see that would have been a good place to lock my bike--not even a street sign. And I am not at all picky. But it was a weird exceptional experience, though. More commonly, in urban environments, I will find all of the plausible places to lock up taken up by other bikes.
More a problem in some European locations than found almost anywhere in the U.S.










Then again there sometimes could be found exceptions in the U.S.

Davis California 1963, Photo by Ansel Adams
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 10:32 PM
  #47  
retswerb
Along for the ride
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: PNW US
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times in 106 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuck M
And as a business owner that bikes, I don't even have a rack outside of the building I own as I doubt none of the employees or clients would ever use them.
Originally Posted by Troul
I wouldn't require any business to accommodate such a thing. it might be more suitable for "nicer" areas, but those areas tend to have big SUVs & very little activity from cyclists.
Induced demand is real for cycling just as it is for driving. I wouldn't necessarily support legislation requiring existing businesses to install bike racks, but updating code in order to require new construction to include them seems like common sense.
retswerb is offline  
Old 01-20-23, 12:06 AM
  #48  
Troul 
Senior Member
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,341

Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,935 Times in 1,899 Posts
Originally Posted by retswerb
Induced demand is real for cycling just as it is for driving. I wouldn't necessarily support legislation requiring existing businesses to install bike racks, but updating code in order to require new construction to include them seems like common sense.
i'd rather legislation allow for businesses & even residential units to have non taxable indoor secure stowage for such property to encourage ped use of cycling.

For how big a business or residential should be granted the non taxable permit to build such a structure, that'd have to be determined by the majority imo.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
Troul is offline  
Old 01-20-23, 12:52 AM
  #49  
retswerb
Along for the ride
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: PNW US
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times in 106 Posts
Originally Posted by Troul
i'd rather legislation allow for businesses & even residential units to have non taxable indoor secure stowage for such property to encourage ped use of cycling.
Sure, that makes perfect sense. I guess rather than racks specifically, I mean bike parking/storage of various sorts. Options are great.
retswerb is offline  
Old 01-20-23, 11:58 PM
  #50  
mschwett 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,028

Bikes: addict, aethos, creo, vanmoof, sirrus, public ...

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1272 Post(s)
Liked 1,382 Times in 707 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuck M
The OP posted
To be a requirement for all businesses, it would have to be an ordinance would it not? At the minimum it would seem that would be zoning at the local level. An ordinance requiring a business that is not going to get patrons using a bike is overreach and abuse of government IMHO….
an overreach? what? only if you consider all zoning and related public safety requirements (sidewalks, appropriate drainage, exits…) an overreach.

almost all municipalities in america require automobile parking in ridiculously high amounts for most land uses. requiring a tiny amount of proportionally cheap bike parking is not an overreach, and that’s why many, many municipalities are beginning to require it. it’s been required of all new developments in most of the bay area for a decade or two.
__________________
mschwett is offline  
Likes For mschwett:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.