Positron400

Heya,

i've ordered a front rack (Basil Portland) and discovered that it's supposed to be mounted at the axle. I have a QR and want to change it to a bolt-on version. I have an old front hub from a 27 inch wheel where I would like to harvest the bolt-on axle from.
Is there anything i have to take into account or can i just swapt it over? The current front wheel is from a WH-R501 wheelset which (according to the data sheet) is equipped with cup-and-cone style bearings.

BR
P!

Andrew R Stewart 

If it turns out that the threading of the solid axle is the same as the QR one then all will go easily. The cones, washers and lock nuts can be retained and any possible bearing issues avoided. Somehow I doubt this will be the case though as often solid ft axles have a slightly smaller OD then ft QR ones. Then there's if the thread pitch is the same (24, 26 tpi and 1 mmpt are common pitches that don't interchange). If either the OD or the pitch are different then in theory one could try the cones/locknuts from the doner wheel, hopefully the bearing spec will be close enough... Andy (not holding his breath)

dsbrantjr

[QUOTE=Positron400;22785645]Heya,

i've ordered a front rack (Basil Portland) and discovered that it's supposed to be mounted at the axle. I have a QR and want to change it to a bolt-on version. I have an old front hub from a 27 inch wheel where I would like to harvest the bolt-on axle from.
Is there anything i have to take into account or can i just swapt it over? The current front wheel is from a WH-R501 wheelset which (according to the data sheet) is equipped with cup-and-cone style bearings.

BR
P![/QUOTE/
Maybe mounting the rack with P-clamps/Adel clamps, or getting a different rack would be a simpler solution.

Kontact 

I'd just go with a security skewer. There's no advantage in bolt on axles.

Andrew R Stewart 

Except for interfacing accessories that are designed to use an axle nut for security. Oh, and true track racing and IGHs and... Andy

Kontact 

I'm responding to the OP, who is not adding accessories that require a long axle, isn't riding on the track and doesn't have an internally geared hub.

But, thanks.

Kontact 

Where can I buy an internal geared front hub, BTW? Sounds awesome.

Positron400

Keep it civil you guys I appreciate you taking the time and answering. No need to get at each other for having a difference in opinion

Andrew R Stewart 

"i've ordered a front rack (Basil Portland) and discovered that it's supposed to be mounted at the axle." Positron400 This is the first sentence the OP wrote.

Your comment "I'd just go with a security skewer. There's no advantage in bolt on axles." didn't specify front hubs only, hence my reply. Andy

Kontact 

To be clear for the OP, a QR or other skewer type will work well with the type of rack he's bought.

Koyote

That wasn't even part of the OP's question. OP didn't ask whether the rack would mount with the QR skewer.

I'd be hesitant to mount a rack with a QR skewer. Not saying it can't be done or would lead to catastrophe, but I'd be much more comfortable with a bolt-on.

Also, the OP's skewer may not be long enough to accommodate the rack mounts.

Kontact 

If you spent 20 seconds googling the rack you'd have seen the axle mounts are thin stamped steel, which will work fine with a skewer.

I understand that with your commsnding professional background in bicycle design and maintenance you might not like using a skewer - but it is normal, common and safe to do so.

And I offer this information just in case the OP is under the misapprehension that axle mount requires an actual axle. That's what a good mechanic does - look past the basic question to why it is being asked. It saves people a lot of time and grief.

But you like grief right?

Koyote

You don’t know anything about my background, nor about the backgrounds of most other posters around here… Because unlike you, most of us do not employ the “appeal to authority“ fallacy.

Just a suggestion: if your input is so correct and invaluable, you don’t need to try to win each thread by telling us all about your industry expertise. All of the bragging simply makes you look insecure.

Kontact 

I didnt brag. I just made it clear that your opinion on this matter has no value, and that you posted solely to troll me, as usual.

The OP can decide to do whatever they prefer with the opinions offered.

And you might consider that all your negative attack posts just make you look like a troll that doesn't apologize nearly often enough for their awful attitude.

Positron400

thanks for your opinions, all of you.
I'd advocate for a mod to close this down, since it has gotten out of hand and OT.

3alarmer 

.
...before you go, there's some value in considering an alternative mounting method, as advocated in # 3. Front racks are more pleasurable to use, if you don't have to worry about the mounting struts every time you pull the front wheel, like to repair a flat there, or to load the bike into a car with limited space.

Positron400

Thanks. Yes i am also considering using the eyelets (sp?) as a potential mounting point (using washers and whatnot) instead of the axle mount.

Trakhak

I'm having difficulty picturing how an axle-mount rack would work with any QR wheel. The axle for a QR hub, if it fits the bike correctly, extends only midway through the dropouts. Thus, the rack's struts would be supported only by the small-diameter QR shaft, and QR shafts are designed to withstand horizontal clamping forces, not vertical loads from racks. My guess is that the rack comes with instructions that specify that it shouldn't be used with QR wheels.

Kontact 

The weight isn't supported by the QR shaft. It is supported by being clamped between the fork dropout and the end of the QR. This is so strong that a wheel with too-short axle ends won't move in a dropout once the QR is closed. No weight is on the QR shaft at all.

Trakhak

Instructions for assembling and installing Wald front basket.

Under "WARNING!" at bottom right of instructions:

DO NOT assemble a quick-release front hub through leg holes. The legs are to be mounted to bolt-on front hubs or to fork eyelets.

Kontact 

And yet it works perfectly fine for the reasons I stated. Skewers only provide tension. The load is carried by the flats of the axle locknuts, dropouts and skewer ends. Just like your house doesnt rely shear strength of the nails in the framing.

That's the theory. In practice people have been mounting racks this way for decades. To claim it is a problem now ignorea reality.

Koyote

And the Wald baskets have a lower weight rating than the OP’s choice… So, it looks like the OP‘s plan (bolt-on) is probably best.

Andrew R Stewart 

One of the issues that I sometimes have here is the difference between what the manufacturer and what some posters say is OK to do. This case of attaching a ft basket strut to a QR secured axle (and not onto a nutted axle) is such an example.

As the guy who had a target on their back for over 45 years (the target is called liability insurance and pretty much required for any true business) I made thousands of such decisions for my customers. What guided me through the possibilities of solutions (to a problem) and to what I was willing to do was considering the worse case scenarios and choosing to avoid them to the best of my ability.

Here we are asked about attaching an accessory (from a manufacturer other than the bike's) to the wheel that controls the bike's steering and control. Worst case might be the basket strut becoming loose from the QR/axle (and the number of cases of ft wheel loss during riding was what drove the CPSC to mandate secondary retention [dropout tabs as example] a requirement). This worse case might be from poor QR use, the QR end caps not fitting the strut and it's larger axle hole or some other reason. I can easily see a situation where that now freely hanging strut, from the bottom of the basket, gets entangled in the spokes and acts as a sudden lock up brake to the ft wheel. (Any one here ever watch the race scene from "Breaking Away"?). Remember that the basket will often be loaded with stuff further adding to the total weight acting on those struts. Also remember that most riders tend to take a plug and play view of this stuff and do little or no follow up monitoring or checking of attachment after initial use.

Were this to be a rear rack or rear mounted basket I would be FAR less concerned as a locked up rear wheel has a FAR less effect of steering control. But on the front, no thanks.

Related but not asked is the basket's sturdiness and stiffness. While there have been thousands of Wald (and other brands) baskets (ft and rear) sold and installed over the decades some of us have worked the LBS enough to have seen many failures too. Bad strut connections, ft baskets pressing on control cables, cracked and broken struts (usually right at the hole that was used to attach with). Thankfully I don't remember many crashes from this, as reported by customers. Still I am not one to suggest anyone else be the rider when the small odds come to be.

The best suggestion in this thread is to get a basket that is meant to better fit the OP's bike. The worst suggestions are to monkey rig the basket to what it is not intended to fit.

Please note that I have been careful to not use personal attacks or make claims of posters' personal traits. This subject is not worth getting mad about bit is VERY much worth getting right. Andy

Trakhak

Andrew R Stewart's post #24 above reminded me of an episode from my bike store days. A woman came in with a moderately expensive mixte and a child seat of the molded-plastic type which she wanted us to install.

I immediately looked at the seat binder bolt, since the mounting hardware was clearly meant for use with the large-diameter binder bolts found on department store bikes. The binder bolt was of the small-diameter Campagnolo style.

I apologized to the woman and explained that the child seat was incompatible with her bike---that the small-diameter seat binder could not be used safely. She looked a bit stricken, which seemed odd to me, but she thanked me, and I loaded her bike back in her car.

About an hour later, I got a call from her husband.

"Are you the one who told my wife that you refused to install the child seat on her bike?"

I said yes, and explained the problem.

"Are you a metallurgist?"

The rest of the conversation went as you'd expect. I stuck to my guns about my decision, but the husband was determined to have some sort of victory in our exchange. He succeeded in making me feel like quitting my job on the spot, so I guess he won.

It turned out that one of the shop's mechanics knew the husband and heard his end of the story a day or two later. The mechanic told me, "You did the right thing, and don't feel bad. That guy's an EST instructor*. That's how he rolls."

*For those who don't know, Erhard Seminars Training was a '70s and '80s self-help thing. The stated objective of the training was to learn how to overcome the habits and behaviors that keep you from achieving your goals in life.

Just did a search---here's what came up:

"The real purpose of est was to create space for people to participate in life - to experience true space and freedom in life."

Admirably opaque. More accurately, based on what I learned over the years, it could be argued that it was a racket whereby well-off (mostly) white (mostly) males paid surprising amounts of money for the privilege of being assured that their only problem was that they were living their lives in an insufficiently selfish manner and for the promise that EST would fix that.

Kontact 

I dont disagree with the care you're approaching this topic.

My perspective on this very specific case is that the rack struts will never transmit enough downward force to affect the skewer, even if the skewer is so loose that the wheel would fall out. The aforementioned rack legs simply arent that stiff. And the strut holes arent so large that the QR head will engage them unevenly.

In contrast, using P clips on a front rack is a potential disaster due to the small hardware/big hole and the ability to rotate around the fork and into the hub.


But let's step back a second here and think of the bigger picture. To replace the axle, the OP is going to have to rebuild the front hub. What happens if that goes wrong?

And I can't speak for anyone else but my experience is that hub nuts are routinely tightened incorrectly because of their tendency to creep while tightening and wrenches to slip on damaged nuts.

So my suggestion wasnt so much an anything goes attitude as much as thinking about all the things that could go wrong vs making the minimum change and using what the OP is already familiar with. Because any of these solutions offer the opportunity to screw up.