Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Can I go tubeless?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Can I go tubeless?

Old 05-31-23, 11:28 AM
  #1  
TimeVirus
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Can I go tubeless?

I have 700c DT Swiss R460 rims with 25mm Gator Hardshell tires and I'm sick and tired of pinch flats! I am buying and replacing tubes weekly. At the moment, I believe that's because I was inflating the tires to 100 psi instead of 120 psi, thinking lower pressure would be more comfortable. Walking or changing tubes is far more uncomfortable! So I'm back to 120 - 125 psi. I'm also thinking of going tubeless, having seen and read how much better a tubeless setup is regarding reliability (far fewer flats). My Question is: can I go tubeless with the rims and tires I have now? Can I at least use my rims with tubeless rim tape? Maybe I just try tubeless on the front only with my rim and tire as an experiment? I have Slime tubes on the way, BTW lol 😆. SO sick of FLATS! AH!😡 Brand new rear tire and a second, backing up the front. Both Gator Hardshells ...
TimeVirus is offline  
Old 05-31-23, 11:33 AM
  #2  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,850

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 558 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22418 Post(s)
Liked 8,725 Times in 4,065 Posts
The rims are “tubeless ready” I don’t think the tires are.

What type of flats are you getting?? Are you sure they are pinch flats? Goat heads? Glass??

I don’t think the PSI change is an issue and you probably are running it too high but that depends on your weight. What’s your weight??

Not enough info yet to give good advice.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Likes For datlas:
Old 05-31-23, 11:45 AM
  #3  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,005

Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 924 Post(s)
Liked 549 Times in 414 Posts
120PSI on 25mm tires? It's too much. How heavy are you?

Have you considered the possibility that your tire is the problem, and not the inner tubes? It happened to me - the tire had a defect inside that was causing the inner tubes to puncture after a few rides. It took me a few inner tubes to realize this.

Also, how old are your rims? All DT Swiss rims are either tubeless compatible or tubeless ready. Not sure since when though.

More information is needed in order to better help you!
eduskator is offline  
Old 05-31-23, 12:16 PM
  #4  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,750

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3822 Post(s)
Liked 7,037 Times in 2,847 Posts
I'm guessing "pinch flat" is being used incorrectly.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 05-31-23, 01:22 PM
  #5  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,423
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3626 Post(s)
Liked 5,286 Times in 2,685 Posts
A quick look at the Silca chart indicates 100 psi should be plenty for 25s unless you are over 350#. If you are, you should move to a larger tire. FWIW, people are happier with tubeless on wider tires with lower pressures.
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 05-31-23, 02:00 PM
  #6  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,855
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1445 Post(s)
Liked 1,474 Times in 865 Posts
1. Are your rims tubeless ready?
2. Can you fit wider tires on your bike?
3. Assuming the answer to 1 and 2 is "yes" then I'd recommend buying some 28mm or 32mm tubeless ready tires, sealant and tape to give it a try.

I wouldn't bother with 25mm tubeless. At that size, the benefits are marginal. You might see a little more flat protection, but the sealant doesn't work as well at such high pressure, so even that might be iffy. 28mm is as narrow as I'd go on tubeless.
msu2001la is offline  
Likes For msu2001la:
Old 05-31-23, 02:16 PM
  #7  
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,661

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1149 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 309 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
1. Are your rims tubeless ready?
2. Can you fit wider tires on your bike?
3. Assuming the answer to 1 and 2 is "yes" then I'd recommend buying some 28mm or 32mm tubeless ready tires, sealant and tape to give it a try.

I wouldn't bother with 25mm tubeless. At that size, the benefits are marginal. You might see a little more flat protection, but the sealant doesn't work as well at such high pressure, so even that might be iffy. 28mm is as narrow as I'd go on tubeless.
I can speak to #1) since I run DT Swiss R460 rims on my bike. Yes! these are tubeless ready.

#2) maybe the OP can speak to how much clearance he/she has on their bike.

#) 3 I disagree with you that 25mm tubeless are not worth the trouble. They not only offer more flat protection, they also ride better and can most definitely be ridden at lower pressures which makes them track poor pavement much better. I feel like 25mm tubeless are so good in fact that I have both my regular road bikes set up with road tubeless. Since these are older rim brake frames the one only has 25mm clearance front and rear, the other has 25mm front clearance and 28mm rear clearance. The durometer of the rubber for tubeless seems different to me in a way that I like. They are not the same as "supple" open tubulars that you run with latex tubes. Instead, you can kind of feel the thickness of the rubber gripping the road. I like to think of it like an idler drive on a turntable versus a belt drive. Very direct palpable feedback. I love it. The lack of love for road tubeless is a mystery to me. They do wear out sooner, I believe which is really not a huge deal breaker for me. I have had great results with both Panaracer and Hutchinson tubeless tires and highly recommend you take your Gator Hardshells and switch them out for some nice tubeless tires. You will need to double tape the rims and use some quality tubeless valves and perhaps use a pressure cannister mount them and then fill them with the sealant of your choice. You may be good to go for an entire year (flat free) after doing this. You do need to refresh the sealant every 3 months or so to make sure it will self seal small punctures.

Last edited by masi61; 05-31-23 at 02:35 PM.
masi61 is online now  
Old 05-31-23, 07:17 PM
  #8  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,855
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1445 Post(s)
Liked 1,474 Times in 865 Posts
Originally Posted by masi61
I can speak to #1) since I run DT Swiss R460 rims on my bike. Yes! these are tubeless ready.

#2) maybe the OP can speak to how much clearance he/she has on their bike.

#) 3 I disagree with you that 25mm tubeless are not worth the trouble. They not only offer more flat protection, they also ride better and can most definitely be ridden at lower pressures which makes them track poor pavement much better. I feel like 25mm tubeless are so good in fact that I have both my regular road bikes set up with road tubeless. Since these are older rim brake frames the one only has 25mm clearance front and rear, the other has 25mm front clearance and 28mm rear clearance. The durometer of the rubber for tubeless seems different to me in a way that I like. They are not the same as "supple" open tubulars that you run with latex tubes. Instead, you can kind of feel the thickness of the rubber gripping the road. I like to think of it like an idler drive on a turntable versus a belt drive. Very direct palpable feedback. I love it. The lack of love for road tubeless is a mystery to me. They do wear out sooner, I believe which is really not a huge deal breaker for me. I have had great results with both Panaracer and Hutchinson tubeless tires and highly recommend you take your Gator Hardshells and switch them out for some nice tubeless tires. You will need to double tape the rims and use some quality tubeless valves and perhaps use a pressure cannister mount them and then fill them with the sealant of your choice. You may be good to go for an entire year (flat free) after doing this. You do need to refresh the sealant every 3 months or so to make sure it will self seal small punctures.
I'm a big fan of tubeless, I run it on multiple different wheelsets for both road and gravel - but I disagree about the ride quality benefits at 25mm. The OP is running somewhere between 100-125psi on clinchers and still (presumably) getting pinch flats. I don't know anything about the OP so I'm making some assumptions here, but Zipp's tire pressure calculator says a 250lb rider on a 20lb bike should run 25mm clinchers at 90-101psi. Switch that to a hooked tubeless setup with the same rider weight and the numbers are 93/99psi. The difference here is within the margin of error on most pumps, and I seriously doubt anyone can tell a difference in ride quality between tubed and tubeless at these pressures, assuming the tires are equal. Switching to nicer tires does improve ride quality, but nicer clinchers also do that.

If the OP is really getting pinch flats on 25mm tires at 100+ psi, the best course of action here would be to run wider tires.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 05-31-23, 07:21 PM
  #9  
ussprinceton
Senior Member
 
ussprinceton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Durham, NC 27705 USA
Posts: 1,076

Bikes: '18 S-Works Tarmac (white letters), '18 S-Works Tarmac (black letters), '22 Allez Elite, '16 Emonda SL, '03 fuel100, '14 adventure3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 66 Posts
what type of road causes pinch flats on 25mm tires at 100+ psi?
ussprinceton is offline  
Old 06-01-23, 05:14 AM
  #10  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,555

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4674 Post(s)
Liked 1,507 Times in 982 Posts
If the flats are really pinch flats at 100 psi, and if bike can't take anything wider than 25mm, will TL be a good solution? I know it's more difficult to pinch flat a TL tire. But 100 psi is 100 psi. If tire is bottoming out (albeit with a tube) at these pressures, there's no magic to prevent the same running tubeless, though with TL could this mean more likelihood of burping problems if not pinch flats themselves?
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 06-01-23, 10:23 AM
  #11  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,855
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1445 Post(s)
Liked 1,474 Times in 865 Posts
Originally Posted by ussprinceton
what type of road causes pinch flats on 25mm tires at 100+ psi?
Heavy rider + pothole would definitely pinch flat a 25mm tire at 100psi if you hit it hard enough.

I think the issue here is that the OP is seeing this happen frequently, so presumably not a result of crashing into potholes. I suspect there's something else going on, but without more information we are only left to speculate.
msu2001la is offline  
Likes For msu2001la:
Old 06-01-23, 10:58 AM
  #12  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,612

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3867 Post(s)
Liked 2,549 Times in 1,570 Posts
Yeah, the rare pinch flat is a fluke; getting them weekly is some kind of user error.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 06-01-23, 05:01 PM
  #13  
Chandne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver area (Ken Caryl Valley)
Posts: 1,792

Bikes: 2022 Moots RCS, 2014 BMC SLR01 DA Mech, 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata, Ibis Ripmo, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Levo SL, Norco Bigfoot VLT

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked 178 Times in 115 Posts
Get rid of the 25s if possible. At least go to 28s. Your PSI is fine. If you go tubeless and your bike can handle it, use 30s or 32s even. You will use lower PSI on those but calculate it according to all the factors- weight, tire width, rim internal width, casing, etc. Good luck.
Chandne is offline  
Old 06-02-23, 05:56 AM
  #14  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
FWIW I went to tubeless on 2 of my road bikes and my GF's road bike about 4 yrs ago. Not one flat in that time.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 06-02-23, 06:10 AM
  #15  
Kai Winters
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern NY...Brownville
Posts: 2,526

Bikes: Specialized Aethos, Specialized Diverge Comp E5

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 423 Times in 243 Posts
Yikes that is high psi.
How much do you weigh?
Pinch flats are the result of hitting something with enough force to compress the tire against the rim so hard to bite into the tube causing two small holes the width of the rim. If this is what you are doing it is user error not psi or the tire size.
I'd be very concerned about the the wheel if you go tubeless and ride the same way...you are going to blow the tire which could end in catastrophe.
I weigh 142lbs and ride 23mm tires at 65psi with tubes. I've not had a pinch flat in years generally because I'm a 'light' rider...not weight wise but riding style. I watch the road and have learned not to slam into and snow plow. Perhaps this is something you need to work on but you give so little info it is hard to offer useful suggestions.
Kai Winters is offline  
Old 06-02-23, 06:12 AM
  #16  
ussprinceton
Senior Member
 
ussprinceton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Durham, NC 27705 USA
Posts: 1,076

Bikes: '18 S-Works Tarmac (white letters), '18 S-Works Tarmac (black letters), '22 Allez Elite, '16 Emonda SL, '03 fuel100, '14 adventure3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 66 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19
FWIW I went to tubeless on 2 of my road bikes and my GF's road bike about 4 yrs ago. Not one flat in that time.
I may go tubeless as well. I recently bought 2 sets of Shimano's WH-RS500 wheelsets, 1649g for each pair + they're tubeless ready

ussprinceton is offline  
Old 06-02-23, 06:55 AM
  #17  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,423
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3626 Post(s)
Liked 5,286 Times in 2,685 Posts
OP seemed pretty distressed but apparently not enough to return.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 06-02-23, 01:47 PM
  #18  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,620

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1322 Post(s)
Liked 1,297 Times in 555 Posts
120 isn't exactly "OMG THAT'S TOO HIGH/It'll Xplode" territory.
You can pinch flat on 25's at 120.....only a few caught it but anything is possible if you weigh enough.

Some of you are on to what's most likely happening so maybe I missed you already explaining it but - Pinch flats at 125 on 25's isn't common even with an extremely high rider weight that would make it more possible. To have repetitive flats at high intervals on what are generally considered tires designed to prevent flats would imply a different cause for a flat - such as something lodged in the tire casing.

Take the time to properly diagnose the actual cause of each flat. I did a video on it -

To the reference above that "Everything " DT makes is tubeless I would like to point out they were around for a lot of years before tubeless was created so that isn't a true statement. Thank you to the person who was familiar with the specific model and reported back that specific model was tubeless.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 06-02-23, 04:47 PM
  #19  
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,661

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1149 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 309 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
120 isn't exactly "OMG THAT'S TOO HIGH/It'll Xplode" territory.
You can pinch flat on 25's at 120.....only a few caught it but anything is possible if you weigh enough.

Some of you are on to what's most likely happening so maybe I missed you already explaining it but - Pinch flats at 125 on 25's isn't common even with an extremely high rider weight that would make it more possible. To have repetitive flats at high intervals on what are generally considered tires designed to prevent flats would imply a different cause for a flat - such as something lodged in the tire casing.

Take the time to properly diagnose the actual cause of each flat. I did a video on it - https://youtu.be/obZoxw3U2uQ

To the reference above that "Everything " DT makes is tubeless I would like to point out they were around for a lot of years before tubeless was created so that isn't a true statement. Thank you to the person who was familiar with the specific model and reported back that specific model was tubeless.
You're welcome. That was me that was familiar with that exact rim and know for a fact that it is tubeless ready.

Calling threadstarter TimeVirus - has any of this proved helpful to you? Could you share more details about the nature of your flats and what you believe are causing them?
masi61 is online now  
Old 06-07-23, 02:12 PM
  #20  
mattcalifornia
Full Member
 
mattcalifornia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ellay
Posts: 339

Bikes: 2002 Eddy Merckx Team SC Resto-Mod; 2019 Ibis Hakka MX; 2017 Spot Brand Ajax Belt Drive

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked 192 Times in 121 Posts
You should not be getting pinch flats that often -- esp. at 100psi. I wonder if you are either installing the tube so that it is getting caught between the tire and rim, or have some other defect or debris on the rim or inside the tire. Carefully check the rim and inside (and outside) of tire with your finger to see if there are any pointy or rough spots. But anyway, if your rims are TL ready, I would consider switching. I've been running tubeless for a few years now and am not going back. If you have enough clearance to go up to 28mm or higher, do it. My bike is older and only allows for 28mm, but it's a big improvement. When I started riding in the 80s, I was rocking 19mm tires at over 140 psi! I can't even imagine what we were all thinking back then.

Edit -- I should add that I ride 44mm semi-slicks and 47mm knobbies on my gravel bike. Wider tires are super plush.
mattcalifornia is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.