chromoly

Hi all. I'm 5' 6.5" with 76cm inseam and shortish torso. I recently had a bike fit and was told a 75mm stem would be ideal on my 52.5cm top tube (center-center) frame. This seems to be a relative short stem and would like to maximize the stem length by finding a shorter reach handlebar. At the time of the fitting I was using Deda Piega handlebars which are 75mm reach and these are on the shorter end of the spectrum in terms of reach. I'd like to try out other handlebars for different styles of riding. Does anyone have any recommendations for short reach handlebars? I mostly ride vintage road bikes and am looking for 26.0 clamp diameter bars, preferably italian, and preferably silver. My only other short reach alternative I've found so far are the classic Cinelli Giro d'italia bars.

cyclic_eric

Hi chromoly,
Welcome to the club! I agree with your goals. Here is a list of handlebars and data I accumulated. My favorites have been the Nitto Noodle bars.
As it sounds like you know, there are many factors that go into a good fit. One thing I value about the longer stem / shorter reach bar combination is that when
I get out of the saddle on a climb, my knees are less likely to hit the bars.
Some of these models are hard to find. And gathering this data from websites, I cannot guarantee that these measurements are accurate.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.
Eric

oldbobcat

Here's a modern compact bend that might interest you. 26 mm clamping, of course. https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/highway-1-bar

chromoly

Everyone, thank you for the recommendations and for the useful handlebar spec chart. I have looked into a few models that are of interest to me and indeed it seems like some of these are hard to source. My top three choices are: Nitto Neat Mod 104, Nitto M151AAF, and the Soma Highway One bars. The Nitto Neat Mod 104 offers the shortest reach, but seems to be sold overseas (Japan/U.K.) from my quick search. Similar to the Cinelli Giro bars, these have a bend that attaches the brifters on a curve, which gives a longer point of contact than the more modern bars. The Nitto M151AAF have a more brifter friendly curve with the top extending horizontally for a more closer and comfortable reach on the top, similar to the Deda Piega bars I currently have. The Soma Highway One seems to be the in-between choice between these two models, and also much easier to be found in the States. My top choice is the Nitto 151AAF since they have the closest reach to the brifters on the top, thus not having to raise the bars high as the other two options.

DaveSSS 

Top tube length doesn't mean much without a seat tube angle to go with it. That's why manufacturers now use stack and reach. The reach is not affected by the seat tube angle. I'm your height with a lot longer 83cm cycling inseam and 72-73cm saddle height. I use a large 10cm saddle to bar drop and a 110mm stem with 80mm reach bars. A 75mm stem would be extremely short. The shortest stem I've ever used is a 100mm, with a frame that had a 383mm reach. I look for reach values in the 370s and a stack height in the 505 to 525 range.

Reach values can only be compared directly when measured at the same stack height. If comparing frames where one has a 20mm shorter stack, subtract 6mm from the reach of the shorter frame, assuming that 20mm of spacer will be used to get an identical stack.
​​
​​​​I should also add that height and leg length don't tell the whole story. Wingspan or arm length can make a significant difference in your required stem length. My wingspan is about 50mm longer than my height.

cyclic_eric

I don't know what that all means, but I think I agree...
My guess is that if you made a best guess on bars, you could adjust other issues with stem length and seat position.

If that doesn't work, my experience is that you must buy 3 to 5 more bicycles in searching for the right fit. ;-D

Kontact 

All of this has nothing to do with the OP. He's had a fit that has determined where the handlebars are supposed to be already. Now he's just trying to duplicate that hood position without having to use a short looking stem. That has nothing to do with top tube length.

DaveSSS 

My point is that the OP has a stupid fitter. A longer torso than mine and 75mm stem don't make sense, unless the OP has some really short arms. Your mistake is assuming that the fitter did a good job.

Kontact 

Actually, It seems like it is your mistake to a) assume that everyone sits on bikes the same way, b) that your fit is good and his is bad, and c) not notice that a 76cm inseam on someone 5'6" is actually indicative of a longish torso. So you're clearly not up for converting three sentence descriptions into precise fit data.

Personally, I don't know what's going on with the OP's fit, and I've done this professionally. Are his bars really low? Are they high because of a back problem? Does he like to sit further back than average? I have no information, so I know better than to diagnose a problem that doesn't exist and just deal with the actual question.

chromoly

Hi all, sorry I've been working almost 70 hours a week and could not get back to you all. Thanks for the comments. I went to a reputable fitter in NYC but will not post names here for his sake. He is the lead instructor of the fit method (which I also will not name) with raving reviews on forums and on Yelp. I purposely went to a different bike fitter from the one I went to before to try experimenting.

I brought a vintage Tommasini to the fit, and I do not know the exact measurements in regards to stack but the seat angle is around 74-74.5 degrees. Typical italian geometry with steep seat tube angle. My saddle setback is 71mm using a Selle Italia Boost, which has a short nose. On a classic saddle like Turbo or Rolls, I have my setback at around 55mm. I do have a rather large setback, hence the need for a shorter stem.

I had the same reaction as others here, thinking that a 75mm stem is way too short. I was mad and I thought I've been ripped off. I did the contrary to the $400 bike fit and went up a frame size to a 530mm top tube (around 74 degree seat tube angle, Peg geometry) with a 115mm stem with Cinelli Giro bars. I had more power out of the saddle and during climbs, but felt over extended in the arms in the saddle. The furthest of the drops were out of my reach. So I worked my way down from 115>100>90 stem until I felt comfortable sitting in the saddle on cold days. The shorter I made the stem, the more I felt I would want to go down a size. At 90mm with Cinelli bars I still feel the need to go down one, since I am not at a comfortable position descending in the drops. So I just swapped the stem out to a 80mm and will see how this goes. Interestingly this is very close to what the bike fitter has prescribed me.

Going slightly off topic, he did prescribe my saddle at a very slightly downward angle (1-2 degrees) from level, which was questionable to me because I thought that was a no-no. His theory was to ride with a straight(ish) back and a slightly downward angle to relieve pressure around the crotch, and to exclusively use cut-out saddles in the center. He only had cut out saddles to experiment with, which I thought was weird. He also set my cleats way towards the heels, and it felt like I was stomping on the pedals rather than circling. So I've initially ridden in his prescribed position and my rear end started to hurt, which has been a first in over 15 years. I've ridden about a 100 miles in his position and gave up, undoing each of what he prescribed. I swapped out my saddle, made it level, repositioned the cleats, and you know the rest. All of this still remains questionable to me, (or him and his method as a fitter), and I would not go back to him again, but at least the positioning does not seem that far off as of now.

chromoly

And correction: my inseam is around 78cm not 76cm according to my measurements done at home.

Kontact 

Why do you have a large setback? What function does it serve?

chromoly

Finally a day off from working 80+ hours this past week.

Having a larger setback engages the hamstrings more than the quads. I think the lower the saddle and the more setback you have, the more the hamstrings are engaged in the pedal stroke. Hamstrings are more suited for endurance than the quads so theoretically you can ride longer with more setback. Of course you still will use your quads but you can save them from fatigue until you need them.

Kontact 

So a recumbent rider is going to be 100% hamstrings?

Well, that's a theory. If it makes it impossible to get a good fit, you might consider modifying it, though. Most posts won't allow a huge amount of set back with a steep seat tube angle.

chromoly

You're right, it is only a theory. I have settled for less setback if I cannot get it to my "ideal" measurement on frames with steep seat tube angles, which happens to be the case for my frame size. My go to seat post is the Velo Orange Grand Cru Long Setback seat post, which allows for a rather generous 30.2mm of setback. I used this in combination with vintage saddles like Turbos or Rolls, but it still fell short about 10mm with the saddle pushed all the way back. I have ridden as is for a while and it felt just fine. Recently, I found a solution by using more modern saddles like the Selle Italia SLR, which allows for more setback thanks to the longer rails. It feels like the additional 10mm of setback allows for a more smoother pedal stroke and I do feel my upper hamstrings being used more than before. That being said, it is still a work in progress trying to figure out what my body likes and does not like, and how this adjustment translates to power/speed.

Kontact 

When in doubt, don't reinvent the wheel. While there are some people that have a very narrow operating range, most humans adapt well to the activity they are doing (part of the reason oval chainring advantages flatten out with time). So, instead of presuming that you need an entirely divergent fit to operate a bicycle efficiently, you might consider putting yourself on the bike in a more typical way and then getting used to riding like that over time.

chromoly

Years ago when I had my first bike fit, the man that gave me the fit also gave me a relatively large setback of 55mm on a standard (non-short nosed) saddle. He rides Cat 1 or 2 races, so he surely must know what he's doing. I've been riding with as much setback (45mm) as possible since, but wasn't attached to the extra 10mm. Fast forward to 2022 and this new bike fitter also recommended a large setback, so curiosity got the best of me.

oldbobcat

For most of us, setback allows us to maintain our centers of mass over our feet. The head and torso are heavy,and if the hips are too far forward no amount of lower back strength is going to keep your chin off the handlebar. You have to make your arms do all the work. So from this balanced point, your back does most of the work to support the torso so your arms can control the bike, give you extra leverage in "extra power needed" situations, and pull out of the saddle for climbs, sprints, relieving saddle pressure, bunny hops, and "posting" over bumpy stretches, without disrupting your balance. Too far back becomes like trying to crawl out of the back seat of a 2-door car.

Now I've known strong riders who could sit in the back seat and twiddle for days on end. Steve Bauer even had Eddy Merckx make him a special bike to enhance this position for Paris-Roubaix.

Bauer didn't win that year.

And many contemporary pros go to the other extreme, being apparently able to "ride the rivet" all day long, like this.


Frankly, I don't know how they do it. Maybe having super-skinny arms and shoulders has something to do with it. Anyway, most of us are happiest somewhere between these two extremes.

icemilkcoffee 

I have no useful input about your fit, but if you are avoiding short stems due to aesthetics, there are other solutions.
As a visual rule, you want the amount of stem coming out of the headset to be shorter vertically than the horizontal length of the stem. Otherwise it looks awkward. That's why short stems are problematic. Now solutions:
1. The easiest solution is to get a 90 degree stem. This way the vertical part of the stem is minimized
2. Get a stem with the slimmest and plainest horizontal arm. These two quill stems are both 90mm, but the first one looks longer visually because of the slim long profile:




3. Get a black stem. Just like in fashion, when you want to de-emphasize something, make it black.


When you add up these 3 points, you get ...... a Salsa stem:

^ this one is 80mm, but it disguises its shortness well