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Zwift questions and impressions

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Zwift questions and impressions

Old 12-13-19, 02:28 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
Funny you should mention that... it looks like Zwift is moving into virtual gravel/dirt just like all the former roadies

https://zwift.com/offroad

Apparently steering is now a thing, and it cleverly uses your phone's accelerometer-

https://zwift.com/news/17853-futureworks-steering/
Can crashing be far off?
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Old 12-13-19, 02:34 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
Is this the FUTURE of VIRTUAL NOTROAD cycling?
So it seems. Plus CHROME! Because we know EVERYTHING is CHROME in the FUTURE!
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Old 12-13-19, 02:37 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
This is a weird thing to be disgusted by, tbh. No one is claiming that Zwift is 1 for 1 directly comparable to real world racing, but the people who are at the top of the Zwift racing ladders are there because they're really extremely fit and most or all of them also race in non-virtual events. It's a perfectly legitimate e-sport, and I think it's smart marketing when they link with the UCI and teams like Canyon-SRAM, who actually just signed a Zwift competition winner to a contract for 2020 on their women's team.

Formula 1 has an e-series that is officially sanctioned by the FIA now as well, and none of the F1 fans or drivers think that it's disgusting that people are racing virtual cars and comparing lap times and braking points on their computer sim rather than in real life. Is the eF1 champion just as good a driver as Lewis Hamilton? Of course not, in fact he would probably be way off the pace in a real car because the physical demands of driving a racing car can't be simulated. However, I'd bet the fastest Zwifter in the world would do just fine in a real time trial against the best pros, because the exertion is the same indoors or outdoors.
I got into a discussion about the esports one and someone brought up the F1 thing. It's interesting.

the Zwift to real racing one hasn't panned out, from what I have heard, as well as they would have liked it to. I was told there have been something like 2 women's contracts given and one is long gone from the sport due to crashing a lot (can't make that up ... unless it's made up) and the other dwindled away with sub-par results. Just like any other discipline - just because something works in one place doesn't mean it translates. Maybe it does to an extent - but it most likely doesn't. As for Time Trials.... I believe I heard there is some sort of comp where the winner was going to be put onto the same course but after actual competition at some event. *shrug* Interesting from afar but TT's aren't really a discipline I enjoy watching outside of a stage race context. Sure the exertion is the same but there's factors like still having to brake and control your speed and turn when you're going so hard you can't see straight.
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Old 12-13-19, 02:40 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
We've had threads here before about whether Zwift is "killing" real racing across the US, because local races aren't being run any more and field sizes are down. I think it's a false correlation between Zwift use and real racing interest, the larger cause to me is the general lack of interest in professional bike racing in this post-Lance era.
Before Zwift killing local racing was a concern, it was Strava KOM hunting that was killing racing. I don't think it's either. I'm recovering from major lower leg surgery and my knee joint in particular is incredibly fragile. Falls of any sort (let along from a bike at high speed) are a major concern to both me and my surgeon (I just got him to let me out of my brace a couple days ago with the caveat that I'll put it on any time I'm in snow or ice or crowds or uneven ground or lots of stairs), but I need to get strength and flexibility back at the joint. Also my main free time is when it's dark outside. Training indoors is my answer. I let my Zwift subscription lapse a year or so ago and have only just gotten back on the bike (on rollers with a forkstand so I don't fall). Since December has a lot of travelling, I've slowly been reaclimatizing my ass to the saddle while watching netflix, but I plan to restart on Zwift come January when I won't miss a good chunk of the month traveling.
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Old 12-13-19, 02:43 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
Let me rephrase that for you- Anyone who takes real bike racing seriously (young and old) know that there's no short cut to structure and it's going to hurt.

IME, a fairly large majority of Zwift riders are actually using the workouts built into the program (you can see the little icon indicating they're riding a set workout). Whether they're accurately setting their weight and FTP is up in the air, but if they are, they are likely suffering just like the "serious old guys" on their computrainers. People that want to work hard and suffer and see gains will do that regardless of the program or venue for their training, and people that don't want to push themselves that hard will continue to remain stagnant. That's a result of personality, not technology, and I don't think Zwift has anything to do with that.
Agree. Most of the racers I know who use Zwift are doing interval sets, whether it's a canned workout or custom. I imported a bunch of workouts from Training Peaks. Heck, now that I think about it, the latest one I did was stolen from the 33 Workout Cookbook thread.
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Old 12-13-19, 02:46 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Zwift was invented to make riding a trainer more enjoyable. I don't see why you think its intent is to get people away from working hard.
Well I think a lot of people just ride around on zwift and may not do any real structured intervals or plan progression. A steady diet of races probably isn't the best thing from a training perspective either. I just think it takes a really focused individual to really do their training on zwift. Back when I got my Cycleops Hammer, I thought I would be more into zwift and the simulation mode and doing a bunch of races I had gotten into doing at that time. But then I discovered the joys of doing structured intervals with trainerroad on ERG mode and I find their workouts and approach to structuring training a bit better than what I could do on my own on zwift because I don't have the mental energy to really create my own training progression. Zwift designed workouts are known for being a hodgepodge of random nonsense as well, so I really enjoy the TR library of workouts (of course I could pull stuff on ergdb but I really like the whole TR community and ecosystem).
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Old 12-13-19, 02:55 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Before Zwift killing local racing was a concern, it was Strava KOM hunting that was killing racing. I don't think it's either. I'm recovering from major lower leg surgery and my knee joint in particular is incredibly fragile. Falls of any sort (let along from a bike at high speed) are a major concern to both me and my surgeon (I just got him to let me out of my brace a couple days ago with the caveat that I'll put it on any time I'm in snow or ice or crowds or uneven ground or lots of stairs), but I need to get strength and flexibility back at the joint. Also my main free time is when it's dark outside. Training indoors is my answer. I let my Zwift subscription lapse a year or so ago and have only just gotten back on the bike (on rollers with a forkstand so I don't fall). Since December has a lot of travelling, I've slowly been reaclimatizing my ass to the saddle while watching netflix, but I plan to restart on Zwift come January when I won't miss a good chunk of the month traveling.
Individuals have always left the sport of racing at regular attrition rates. That has not changed. That hasn't even accelerated. The normal attrition rates (of which you are a part of) still apply. The difference has been new racers are no longer coming to the sport.

Everyone can point a finger wherever they want but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Nothing has changed. The only chart I have ever seen with a high correlation (some would argue not causation) is the link between new racers and how well we do as a country at the pro level in Europe. If we suck in Europe the number of new licenses plummets. When we do well in Europe it goes up. One can't help but feel that is no longer the only causation factor.

One thing almost anyone can see now though is that Zwift is NOT causing it. I hope that the idea of competing online will eventually cause some to seek out real life racing.
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Old 12-13-19, 03:29 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Can crashing be far off?
One of the great frustrations of my online sim racing days were "wreckers" who would join a server, start the race, and then either not brake for the 1st corner or just drive the track backwards and attempt to ram the leaders.

Imagine if that becomes a thing in Zwift. It'd be amusing on one level and horribly upsetting on another.
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Old 12-13-19, 03:43 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
One of the great frustrations of my online sim racing days were "wreckers" who would join a server, start the race, and then either not brake for the 1st corner or just drive the track backwards and attempt to ram the leaders.

Imagine if that becomes a thing in Zwift. It'd be amusing on one level and horribly upsetting on another.
That'd be sweet. I still instinctively freak when riders pull u-turns in front of me on Zwift.
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Old 12-13-19, 07:35 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I used to - still have - an indoor computrainer multi-rider studio. I stopped having my own classes on there long ago but we still have groups of triathletes who still utilize it. old people still prefer it.....because they get it. I'll round back to that.

When people started leaving indoor classes in groups so that they could ride zwift alone at home I took the time to ask all of them why. What the appeal was over riding in class. The general just of it was that riding zwift is more entertaining. Riding a structured workout in class was just too hard/difficult/taxing. Way too hard.

I then quickly realized something: riding a trainer is training. We don't do it for recreation. We do it to cause a training effect. Training is effective when loading the body correctly. While it varies greatly for each person it can be summarized by "going hard enough when you need to go hard and easy enough when you need to go easy". If you aren't going hard enough or easy enough then you are in essence just doing "junk miles". This is nothing new. We have all known this for eons. So if careful structured training is "too hard" and Zwift is effectively easier then Zwift is junk miles. Rather it's ineffective training.

Putting oneself through unstructured make believe racing every day is no way to train. Just riding around and trying to set records is not training. Junk miles.

Now I understand they have workouts. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say these workouts are actually well done training structure. If they are then one thing will start to happen - people will begin not to like them. As structured real training is difficult both physically and mentally. It is why Zwift was invented - to get us away from the hard stuff.

Rounding back - the old guys understand there is no short cut to actual structured training. They understand that even with pretty scenery and graphics - training alone in your basement still sucks and is still harder than doing the right triaining in a class with friends who push you on. "Analog friends" instead of digital ones.
Reading your post reminds me of why I use both The Sufferfest and Zwift, but for different purposes.

Structured training isn't just hard, it's boring. It's why people try to entertain themselves with other means while training, like watching a show on tv or Netflix. The Sufferfest manages to deliver structured training in a way that's entertaining and engaging, though these days they also offer "no video" workouts for the tv/Netflix crowd.

I don't think I would be able to do structured training on Zwift. As pretty as the graphics and scenery is, it's still a computer telling you to do X watts now, Y watts later, Z watts after that... and despite the pretty graphics, there's no engagement. To me, it's still boring. I'd rather be watching a show or movie while training.

But what Zwift does for me that structured training hasn't, is the motivation to push to my limits. Structured training comes in many forms and shapes, from sub-threshold intervals to tough VO2max efforts to even all-out sprint intervals. When it gets too hard, I find that I am more likely to crap out and DNF a really tough interval. But with Zwift racing, however, it brings out the competitive nature in me to keep pushing, because me knowing the riders in front of me are real people, instead of just a computer telling me to hold a certain wattage, is pretty strong motivation to push hard. So maybe once a week, when I really want to go hard, I pick a race on Zwift instead of a workout with high IF.
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Old 12-13-19, 07:49 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by atwl77 View Post
Reading your post reminds me of why I use both The Sufferfest and Zwift, but for different purposes.

Structured training isn't just hard, it's boring. It's why people try to entertain themselves with other means while training, like watching a show on tv or Netflix. The Sufferfest manages to deliver structured training in a way that's entertaining and engaging, though these days they also offer "no video" workouts for the tv/Netflix crowd.

I don't think I would be able to do structured training on Zwift. As pretty as the graphics and scenery is, it's still a computer telling you to do X watts now, Y watts later, Z watts after that... and despite the pretty graphics, there's no engagement. To me, it's still boring. I'd rather be watching a show or movie while training.

But what Zwift does for me that structured training hasn't, is the motivation to push to my limits. Structured training comes in many forms and shapes, from sub-threshold intervals to tough VO2max efforts to even all-out sprint intervals. When it gets too hard, I find that I am more likely to crap out and DNF a really tough interval. But with Zwift racing, however, it brings out the competitive nature in me to keep pushing, because me knowing the riders in front of me are real people, instead of just a computer telling me to hold a certain wattage, is pretty strong motivation to push hard. So maybe once a week, when I really want to go hard, I pick a race on Zwift instead of a workout with high IF.
Awesome post and totally agree. Im definitely not anti-Zwift. I just feel its lagging in ways that people dont yet fully realize. I think its a great tool to add to the arsenal but its not a well rounded solution or total answer.
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Old 12-13-19, 09:14 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by atwl77 View Post
Reading your post reminds me of why I use both The Sufferfest and Zwift, but for different purposes.

Structured training isn't just hard, it's boring. It's why people try to entertain themselves with other means while training, like watching a show on tv or Netflix. The Sufferfest manages to deliver structured training in a way that's entertaining and engaging, though these days they also offer "no video" workouts for the tv/Netflix crowd.

I don't think I would be able to do structured training on Zwift. As pretty as the graphics and scenery is, it's still a computer telling you to do X watts now, Y watts later, Z watts after that... and despite the pretty graphics, there's no engagement. To me, it's still boring. I'd rather be watching a show or movie while training.

But what Zwift does for me that structured training hasn't, is the motivation to push to my limits. Structured training comes in many forms and shapes, from sub-threshold intervals to tough VO2max efforts to even all-out sprint intervals. When it gets too hard, I find that I am more likely to crap out and DNF a really tough interval. But with Zwift racing, however, it brings out the competitive nature in me to keep pushing, because me knowing the riders in front of me are real people, instead of just a computer telling me to hold a certain wattage, is pretty strong motivation to push hard. So maybe once a week, when I really want to go hard, I pick a race on Zwift instead of a workout with high IF.
I do a lot of structured erg training on Zwift and agree the visuals are not stimulating enough to make it worthwhile for that purpose. I generally listen to a book or podcast and when things get tough, all I’m registering is the cadence readout anyway.
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Old 12-14-19, 08:22 AM
  #138  
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Were not trying to compete with riding outside. Were trying to compete with not riding. - Eric Minn

From here: https://www.outsideonline.com/239363...rtual-training

Not everyone is interested in going around in circles b@lls to the wall surrounded by overweight bowling balls and being yelled at for one hour. Others cannot afford to get injured and jeopardize their careers for a weekend testosterone fest. And no, the reason to get on a trainer is NOT ALWAYS to train... some of us who paid dearly to lose weight and who gain it by just breathing air would like to keep that weight off, thank you very much. Zwift helps to do that nicely.

There are many reasons why cycling goes beyond crit racing: health, leisure, relaxation, etc. Even if the miles are junk, theres still an endurance benefit and satisfaction from just getting off the couch and accomplishing a personal goal.

Not saying this is the case here, but there is an elitist attitude afoot that real cycling is racing, and if youre not doing that youre just an enthusiast. That same attitude to cater primarily to racers may be part of the reason LBSs may not be doing as well as they could.

*Some* racers need to hear this: Look, if youre not a pro, you ARE an amateur/enthusiast; get off your high horse.

Many factors prevent road racing in the US traditional road and crit) from flourishing like in Europe. Read the following article as an example:

https://medium.com/@peterabraham/wha...s-e849cf6a517d

Alright, now Im going to run for cover and jump on Zwift to do a couple of hours of Z2.

Edited: Not all racers have an elitist attitude so I updated my post to reflect that. Some racers Ive met are some of the nicest and most helpful people youll ever run into. Others however......

Last edited by GreenAnvil; 12-14-19 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 12-14-19, 09:43 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
And no, the reason to get on a trainer is NOT ALWAYS to train... some of us who paid dearly to lose weight and who gain it by just breathing air would like to keep that weight off, thank you very much. Zwift helps to do that nicely.
Uh, wouldn't cycling cause you to breath MORE air and thus gain weight?

Just kidding around of course. I thought your post made a very good point.
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Old 12-14-19, 10:45 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Uh, wouldn't cycling cause you to breath MORE air and thus gain weight?

Just kidding around of course. I thought your post made a very good point.
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Old 12-14-19, 02:08 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
Were not trying to compete with riding outside. Were trying to compete with not riding. - Eric Minn

From here: https://www.outsideonline.com/239363...rtual-training
.
I'd take his statements with a grain of salt. They have had a direct mission for the last year or two of trying 100% to legitimize online racing. You don't partner with the UCI to offer a virtual rainbow jersey if you're just trying to get people off the couch.

Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
but there is an elitist attitude afoot that real cycling is racing, and if youre not doing that youre just an enthusiast
...because that is literally the definition of both of those terms. If you're a racers race. If you are not racing but love to ride a lot and with good gear then you're an enthusiast. The entire industry refers to markets that way because that is the way it is. The only issue is when people start to take some sort of offense to be referred to as enthusiasts. I have never understood that. They somehow feel as though they are being talked down to....and yet they have no interest in racing.

Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
That same attitude to cater primarily to racers may be part of the reason LBSs may not be doing as well as they could.
I hear this often and understand why people would think that but it's the complete opposite. As an OEM wheel company, team owner, race promoter, president of a USA Cycling Local Association, AND shop owner I have been working with all other shop owners for over a decade. Shops despise actual racers. The people they love are the enthusiasts who try to seem just like they are racers. We used to call them posers, Freds, etc. That's the elitist element that creeps into shops. None of those guys are actually racers though. Actual racers don't have time to care about most of that crap. They're too busy doing another interval in the basement ready to puke and afraid to eat anything. The vast majority don't care what anyone else is riding on what they are wearing. Racers wear team kit. All the time. They also don't spend money in shops. Shops hate (actual) racers.

Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
*Some* racers need to hear this: Look, if youre not a pro, you ARE an amateur/enthusiast; get off your high horse.
Not very many actual racers do. If you've raced you know your place. The only people who act like that are posers.... and cat 3 masters men who think they walk on water. The rest let their legs talk and usually want to talk about anything other than bikes or racing.

Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
Many factors prevent road racing in the US traditional road and crit) from flourishing like in Europe. Read the following article as an example:
That's the primary fallacy. We aren't trying to be like Europe because....well the US will never be like Europe. It is impossible to develop the same culture for bike racing that exists in Europe and attempts to do so have always failed. They all ignore that we are a car centric culture here and that won't change. They ignore the fact that we are the size of 3 Europes and you can't have cohesive racing across this expanse of land without 3-4 times the amount of money that is spent in Europe. That's never going to change and the whole approach needs to change.

Not reading this particular article but guessing it's the one that was written by the guy who has never put on a race but was telling everyone how to put on races. I wish him luck.

Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
Edited: Not all racers have an elitist attitude so I updated my post to reflect that. Some racers Ive met are some of the nicest and most helpful people youll ever run into. Others however......
Most on here don't believe it but I've been told repeatedly for years that I fall squarely in that helpful group. I just don't mix a lot of words. It's the engineer in me. People really seem to take offence at being told they aren't a racer. I've never understood that. No one is saying everyone should be. Also there is nothing special about being one. You simply pay your money, get a number and toe the line. I did it myself 2 weekends ago and I have absolutely no business being on a race course. It's not like there is a pre-race physical anyone needs to pass.

The part that gets old is listening to non-racers talk about racing and racers. I'll go out on a limb and guess it's similar to being a woman listening to a man talk about women's or reproductive rights.

It just gets old to watch people who obviously have this built in need to measure themselves against others and to compete with them have something internal that keeps them from trying racing in real life.
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Old 12-14-19, 02:45 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I'd take his statements with a grain of salt. They have had a direct mission for the last year or two of trying 100% to legitimize online racing. You don't partner with the UCI to offer a virtual rainbow jersey if you're just trying to get people off the couch.
.
Since I think the Canyon/UCI/Zwift tie-in was previously mentioned, how do people interpret this policy from Canyon on trainer usage with its bikes?
"If you have an approved bike, there are only two conditions:

the trainer must clamp on to the bike's rear axle (not to the frame)
required accessories made available by the trainer's manufacturer (such as special axles) must be used
If you fulfil these, using the turbo trainer does not void your warranty."


Maybe to be found as a bit funny..
Take a typical direct mount smart trainer like a Wahoo Kickr.. while there's a thru axle, is not the bike's "frame" being clamped (ie. the dropouts) to the trainer?
eg.


versus a wheel-on trainer, which it sounds Canyon requires (without voiding warranty) where the clamps are onto just the axle, eg:
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Old 12-14-19, 02:48 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Since I think the Canyon/UCI/Zwift tie-in was previously mentioned, how do people interpret this policy from Canyon on trainer usage with its bikes?
"If you have an approved bike, there are only two conditions:

the trainer must clamp on to the bike's rear axle (not to the frame)
required accessories made available by the trainer's manufacturer (such as special axles) must be used
If you fulfil these, using the turbo trainer does not void your warranty."


Maybe to be found as a bit funny..
Take a typical direct mount smart trainer like a Wahoo Kickr.. while there's a thru axle, is not the bike's "frame" being clamped (ie. the dropouts) to the trainer?
eg.


versus a wheel-on trainer, which it sounds Canyon requires (without voiding warranty) where the clamps are onto just the axle, eg:
Couple of people on the team were passing that around....

In general you can ride any bike you want to on any trainer. They are almost all loaded and mounted in the same way that a wheel would be and if the bike is going to fail on the trainer it's going to fail while riding it and you don't want to ride it anyway. My $0.02
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Old 12-14-19, 02:56 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Couple of people on the team were passing that around....

In general you can ride any bike you want to on any trainer. They are almost all loaded and mounted in the same way that a wheel would be and if the bike is going to fail on the trainer it's going to fail while riding it and you don't want to ride it anyway. My $0.02
Except side to side rocking forces are not accommodated on a trainer, as the bike is held vertical by those clamps. And while it's not likely to fail, the 'funny' bit is that Canyon is one of the few bike makers that wouldn't cover a fail under their warranty terms; using a direct drive trainer which is the preferred Zwifter's tool of choice.
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Old 12-14-19, 03:11 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I'd take his statements with a grain of salt. They have had a direct mission for the last year or two of trying 100% to legitimize online racing. You don't partner with the UCI to offer a virtual rainbow jersey if you're just trying to get people off the couch.



...because that is literally the definition of both of those terms. If you're a racers race. If you are not racing but love to ride a lot and with good gear then you're an enthusiast. The entire industry refers to markets that way because that is the way it is. The only issue is when people start to take some sort of offense to be referred to as enthusiasts. I have never understood that. They somehow feel as though they are being talked down to....and yet they have no interest in racing.



I hear this often and understand why people would think that but it's the complete opposite. As an OEM wheel company, team owner, race promoter, president of a USA Cycling Local Association, AND shop owner I have been working with all other shop owners for over a decade. Shops despise actual racers. The people they love are the enthusiasts who try to seem just like they are racers. We used to call them posers, Freds, etc. That's the elitist element that creeps into shops. None of those guys are actually racers though. Actual racers don't have time to care about most of that crap. They're too busy doing another interval in the basement ready to puke and afraid to eat anything. The vast majority don't care what anyone else is riding on what they are wearing. Racers wear team kit. All the time. They also don't spend money in shops. Shops hate (actual) racers.



Not very many actual racers do. If you've raced you know your place. The only people who act like that are posers.... and cat 3 masters men who think they walk on water. The rest let their legs talk and usually want to talk about anything other than bikes or racing.


That's the primary fallacy. We aren't trying to be like Europe because....well the US will never be like Europe. It is impossible to develop the same culture for bike racing that exists in Europe and attempts to do so have always failed. They all ignore that we are a car centric culture here and that won't change. They ignore the fact that we are the size of 3 Europes and you can't have cohesive racing across this expanse of land without 3-4 times the amount of money that is spent in Europe. That's never going to change and the whole approach needs to change.

Not reading this particular article but guessing it's the one that was written by the guy who has never put on a race but was telling everyone how to put on races. I wish him luck.


Most on here don't believe it but I've been told repeatedly for years that I fall squarely in that helpful group. I just don't mix a lot of words. It's the engineer in me. People really seem to take offence at being told they aren't a racer. I've never understood that. No one is saying everyone should be. Also there is nothing special about being one. You simply pay your money, get a number and toe the line. I did it myself 2 weekends ago and I have absolutely no business being on a race course. It's not like there is a pre-race physical anyone needs to pass.

The part that gets old is listening to non-racers talk about racing and racers. I'll go out on a limb and guess it's similar to being a woman listening to a man talk about women's or reproductive rights.

It just gets old to watch people who obviously have this built in need to measure themselves against others and to compete with them have something internal that keeps them from trying racing in real life.
Long post! Im glad that I got the some racers are great people part right, because its true. Happy to hear youre part of that bunch.

A few takeaways I think I can take from your words (from this and previous posts):
* Eric Minn didnt mean what he said in the article. Zwift actions speak otherwise.
* People that dont race cant speak about racing, or perhaps the topic of racing, or maybe even hint about why they wouldnt want to race for whatever reason. That reporter is shot not on the basis of his arguments nor his research but because he is the wrong messenger and doesnt know what he is talking about.
* Some people have some inherent fear or insecurity to actually measure themselves up by not racing. What are they afraid of?
* Europe! Of course were not Europe! But, but, people are moving away from the sport! And theyre not supporting their LBS! Its not right! Why, oh why???

Thats kinda my 64,000 foot view, but dont want to split hairs here nor challenge your credentials. Its all good.

I just want to wish you well and may the winds of change be always at the back of your business endeavors and push you forward.

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Old 12-14-19, 03:29 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
Long post! Im glad that I got the some racers are great people part right, because its true. Happy to hear youre part of that bunch.

A few takeaways I think I can take from your words (from this and previous posts):
* Eric Minn didnt mean what he said in the article. Zwift actions speak otherwise.
* People that dont race cant speak about racing, or perhaps the topic of racing, or maybe even hint about why they wouldnt want to race for whatever reason. That reporter is shot not on the basis of his arguments nor his research but because he is the wrong messenger and doesnt know what he is talking about.
* Some people have some inherent fear or insecurity to actually measure themselves up by not racing. What are they afraid of?
* Europe! Of course were not Europe! But, but, people are moving away from the sport! And theyre not supporting their LBS! Its not right! Why, oh why???

Thats kinda my 64,000 foot view, but dont want to split hairs here nor challenge your credentials. Its all good.

I just want to wish you well and may the winds of change be always at the back of your business endeavors and push you forward.
...and for you - "A few takeaways I think I can take from your words (from this and previous posts):"
* You think I'm an a-hole for taking the cliff notes version of your posts and you arrived at that conclusion by taking the cliff notes versions of my posts.... because it serves your own narrative and all.
* You think that all opinions written by people with no experience are valid because they serve your personal narrative.
* You like to project that you always take the higher road....by always trying to have the last word and lob personal attacks against those that disagree with you.

That's my 3 ft view, but I'll be here all day to split hairs and challenge credentials. It's never good.
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Old 12-14-19, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Except side to side rocking forces are not accommodated on a trainer, as the bike is held vertical by those clamps. And while it's not likely to fail, the 'funny' bit is that Canyon is one of the few bike makers that wouldn't cover a fail under their warranty terms; using a direct drive trainer which is the preferred Zwifter's tool of choice.
Yeah it's weird they do that. I have no opinions on Canyon. I have had my hands on a few but not enough.

Even without rocking the loading isn't out of range. Considering most design in the consumer market is done to a 6-10x safety factor I am surprised they are concerned but they get to do what they want to do. As a consumer - if I had a Canyon I personally wouldn't worry about using them on those trainers.

Besides if something happens and they won't cover it then it's more than likely very easily fixable at a plethora of carbon repair places.
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Old 12-14-19, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
...and for you - "A few takeaways I think I can take from your words (from this and previous posts):"
* You think I'm an a-hole for taking the cliff notes version of your posts and you arrived at that conclusion by taking the cliff notes versions of my posts.... because it serves your own narrative and all.
* You think that all opinions written by people with no experience are valid because they serve your personal narrative.
* You like to project that you always take the higher road....by always trying to have the last word and lob personal attacks against those that disagree with you.

That's my 3 ft view, but I'll be here all day to split hairs and challenge credentials. It's never good.
No Psimet, I dont think youre an a$$hole. I wont comment on the rest. You have the point. Godspeed.
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Old 12-14-19, 03:38 PM
  #149  
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Agree, it's probably something most consumers don't have to worry about. However within the context of having "Pro" circuits of virtual zwifting, the watts and stresses that true pros might put on the frame's dropouts I'd have to think could be an issue.

No idea how easy or hard to replace a rear CF dropout.
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Old 12-14-19, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenAnvil View Post
No Psimet, I dont think youre an a$$hole. I wont comment on the rest. You have the point. Godspeed.
Eric Minn - "Last year, Eric Min, CEO and cofounder of the online, multiplayer bike-racing platform Zwift, laid out a bold goal for his creation: I want this to be a fully-fledged Olympic sport, he said, citing the 2024 Games as a possible target.
https://www.outsideonline.com/240300...g-olympics-UCI

A bit on the UCI Zwift connection. eSports - UCI and Zwift

The Memorandum of Understanding between our Federation and Zwift is a decisive step towards the total integration of cycling esports by the UCI.Zwifts Esports CEO Craig Edmondson added: Earlier this year, we stated our ambition to develop an esports platform, but I think its much more than that. We are looking to establish a new approach to the sport. This partnership is a significant leap forward in that journey. We are at the very beginning of a long and exciting roadmap here at Zwift as we look to establish a new and innovative cycling discipline.
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