LBS can't Tune a Shimano Front Derailleur
#1
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Thread Starter
LBS can't Tune a Shimano Front Derailleur
Got a new Ultegra front mech. After being driven crazy installing my old 105 FD - I took it to the LBS as part of a larger maintenance/tune package.
First tech f'd it up - had the angle wrong and no trim on the big cog. Sounded like birds chirping.
Took it back in - and the manager was kind enough to tune it himself.
Now the big cog works fine - no noise - but there's no trim on the small cog. When you click all the way in - the trim doesn't move it out a fraction. Maybe I'm not explaining that right - but both clicks on the small cog result in the same FD placement. This is not correct right? There should be four slightly different FD positions correct?
Why is it so hard to get these things right?
First tech f'd it up - had the angle wrong and no trim on the big cog. Sounded like birds chirping.
Took it back in - and the manager was kind enough to tune it himself.
Now the big cog works fine - no noise - but there's no trim on the small cog. When you click all the way in - the trim doesn't move it out a fraction. Maybe I'm not explaining that right - but both clicks on the small cog result in the same FD placement. This is not correct right? There should be four slightly different FD positions correct?
Why is it so hard to get these things right?
#3
Full Member
The latest versions of Shimano FDs have specific instructions to align for trim. Basically there are two marks which must line up on the cable adjuster when the chain is on the big chainring and the lever is in trim position, not hard to do but specific. Read the online instruction sheet for your FD and see if the two marks line up. If not lined up, do the last adjustment yourself.
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-05-ENG.pdf page 18
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-05-ENG.pdf page 18
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#5
Senior Member
Better yet, learn to fix it yourself. I've never had a shop do any repair, ever.
#6
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#7
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Thread Starter
I agree for everything except this FD from Shimano. I've never been able to get it to perform to the point where I'm not constantly fidgeting with it. So yeah - for FD I need a pro, I'm just going to admit it.
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5800/6800/9000 series FDs are a little more finicky than the others, and you must have the cable attached to the proper side of the mounting bolt for your bike..
#9
Senior Member
Well said
This is the key bit of advice you need.. If you do it the wrong way it just never works properly (but does work fairly well).
#10
Senior Member
Last edited by DOS; 02-15-20 at 01:31 PM.
#11
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Fd
The shop I bought my bike from used to have some really good wrenches. Not sure where they all went, but at my last service I ended up with a loose crank, FD that constantly dropped the chain (it never did) and noisier than ever. I’ve since got the FD where it’s “ok” but that’s it
#12
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IME it's fairly common for the small ring trim position not to work; the derailer only moves when the cable is pulled further than the tiny trim amount; it'll sit where it's supposed to on that first trim position as the cable is released. This makes sense when you look at the stupid geometry, with the pivot on the arm below the pinch bolt almost in line with the cable.
Many are bound to disagree with me, but I say Shimano done F'ed up designing this unit, ignoring the wide variability in origin of the cable from various frames. It only works properly on like 35% of bikes, kind of okay on another 25%, and on the rest you have to choose which trim position you want to work. Better to skip the small ring one, since you have to adjust it a bit wrong if you want that one, straining the escapement in the shifter on release from full tight.
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#13
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Oh yeah, that can sometimes make the difference, but it often doesn't help much.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
#14
Senior Member
Many are bound to disagree with me, but I say Shimano done F'ed up designing this unit, ignoring the wide variability in origin of the cable from various frames. It only works properly on like 35% of bikes, kind of okay on another 25%, and on the rest you have to choose which trim position you want to work. Better to skip the small ring one, since you have to adjust it a bit wrong if you want that one, straining the escapement in the shifter on release from full tight.
As you say, it's not like that on all bikes. I've tried it on someone else's Cannondale Supersix and it works exactly as intended, and it's clear that the cable exit is much closer to the centre of the BB shell.
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The Ultgra 8000 sets up different from all others I had trouble until I went to the Shimnao site and down loaded the instructions, just follow the instruction and you will not have a problem
#16
Chases Dogs for Sport
No Shimano fd is very difficult to set up, but the latest versions are very much the easiest IF YOU READ AND FOLLOW THE NEW INSTRUCTIONS. If your LBS tried to set the fd up without reading the instructions, they understandably had problems. But if they will read . . . it's idiot-proof. A complete novice could set it up perfectly.
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Got a new Ultegra front mech. After being driven crazy installing my old 105 FD - I took it to the LBS as part of a larger maintenance/tune package.
First tech f'd it up - had the angle wrong and no trim on the big cog. Sounded like birds chirping.
Took it back in - and the manager was kind enough to tune it himself.
Now the big cog works fine - no noise - but there's no trim on the small cog. When you click all the way in - the trim doesn't move it out a fraction. Maybe I'm not explaining that right - but both clicks on the small cog result in the same FD placement. This is not correct right? There should be four slightly different FD positions correct?
Why is it so hard to get these things right?
First tech f'd it up - had the angle wrong and no trim on the big cog. Sounded like birds chirping.
Took it back in - and the manager was kind enough to tune it himself.
Now the big cog works fine - no noise - but there's no trim on the small cog. When you click all the way in - the trim doesn't move it out a fraction. Maybe I'm not explaining that right - but both clicks on the small cog result in the same FD placement. This is not correct right? There should be four slightly different FD positions correct?
Why is it so hard to get these things right?
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#18
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The R7000/8000 stuff seems complicated to set up, but just read Shimano's instructions. They explain a very methodical and logical method of setting up the FD. If it's the older long-arm generation, have fun with that. Even as a shop mech, that gen is a royal pain to set up properly. I think our shop record for setting up a 5800 FD is around 7 minutes.
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I read everything Shimano has ever published, to start with---Pure BS. I went to every reputable cycling site (Park Tools and the like) and read every related thread on several bike websites. My takeaway is that it is a lousy design that works wonderfully if you can find the sweet spot between swing and tension, but if your derailleur mount or cable stop is not located in just the right spot it is just a lousy design.
That said .... if the Mechanic at a Bike Shop can;'t do it, never go back there. Plenty of amateurs (like myself) have figured it out. if the supposedly skilled mechanic cannot, he is .... well, worse than me, and I really hate to be so insulting ......
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You know you've found a good bike shop if they can tune a Shimano but they can't tuna fish.
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I wonder.... OP do you have a Shimano crank? I had exactly the same issue when I had my praxis crank. It got better (but not perfect) when I went to a 105 crank.
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My next door neighbor complained about our LBS concerning the same issue. He paid for the tuneup that wasn't. I'm going to do the research and see if I can't help him out. I would encourage him to learn to maintain his own bike but he just isn't there. Andy Granatelli in his autobiography stated that his philosophy was that if a problem was reduced to its simplest terms; anybody could understand it and know how to correct it. I have adopted this philosophy in large part and it has served me well.
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My next door neighbor complained about our LBS concerning the same issue. He paid for the tuneup that wasn't. I'm going to do the research and see if I can't help him out. I would encourage him to learn to maintain his own bike but he just isn't there. Andy Granatelli in his autobiography stated that his philosophy was that if a problem was reduced to its simplest terms; anybody could understand it and know how to correct it. I have adopted this philosophy in large part and it has served me well.
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The latest versions of Shimano FDs have specific instructions to align for trim. Basically there are two marks which must line up on the cable adjuster when the chain is on the big chainring and the lever is in trim position, not hard to do but specific. Read the online instruction sheet for your FD and see if the two marks line up. If not lined up, do the last adjustment yourself.
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-05-ENG.pdf page 18
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-05-ENG.pdf page 18
Thanks for the link!
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Very few shops actually set them correctly. Most factory techs and mechanics can't either. You can get decent performance by following the exact guidelines given in the tech docs. You can get best performance when you take the time to really set it up for your specific situation.
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