Cycling and hand signals
08-03-21, 08:04 AM
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08-03-21, 08:18 AM
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08-03-21, 08:47 AM
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A few years ago, the Sheriff of a county that abuts Philadelphia County and is home to a large cycling club (It's also the wealthiest county in the Commonwealth.), didn't know about PA's 4' passing law even though it took effect in 2012. He then started a public awareness campaign that included press conferences and the printing of 300 campaign style law signs to be placed along popular cycling routes in the county. Nice gesture on his part. I have also seen a few permanent signs in my travels, but not many. And I have found that the law is more complied with in Pennsyltucky, but can't say if people are consciously complying with the law or not.
08-03-21, 09:07 AM
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I would assume that they're just more accustomed to passing slow-moving traffic, like tractors, Amish carts, etc. That or they just don't have the same deep-seated and over-inflated sense of importance and entitlement that seems to be more prevalent than ever.
08-03-21, 10:21 AM
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That's my suspicion.
08-03-21, 11:13 AM
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The first sign I saw about Pennsylvania's 4' law was on the bridge in Reigelsvile PA -- facing the New Jersey side of the bridge over the Delaware. I know at least some Pennsylvanians have heard about it somewhere, because some guy that probably can't read yelled at me about it out of his beater pickup.
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08-03-21, 11:23 AM
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The first sign I saw about Pennsylvania's 4' law was on the bridge in Reigelsvile PA -- facing the New Jersey side of the bridge over the Delaware. I know at least some Pennsylvanians have heard about it somewhere, because some guy that probably can't read yelled at me about it out of his beater pickup.
1564 PA-32 - Google Maps
BTW...Are you aware that that the Riegelsville Bridge was designed by Roebling of, among other things, Brooklyn Bridge fame?
08-03-21, 11:33 AM
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This sounds odd but I find Pennsy drivers for the most part to give you 3-4 feet when they are in Pennsy but once they cross over the bridge, they are doing grudge buzz passes as if, "Ha Ha, no 4 foot law in NJ".
Left arm bent and extended for a right hander is dumb AF. Who is going to come out of the hooks for that.
Left arm bent and extended for a right hander is dumb AF. Who is going to come out of the hooks for that.
08-03-21, 12:07 PM
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Not for long. Haven't heard when the new NJ law will take effect.
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08-03-21, 12:07 PM
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08-03-21, 04:38 PM
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I think I have had more bad experiences with Pennsylvania drivers in New Jersey than New Jersey drivers. OTOH, in Pennsylvania it's a toss up between NJ and NY as to who is worse. In this area, NJ wins because there are more Penn State students from NJ, seemingly. I am definitely not looking forward to the first week of classes.
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08-03-21, 05:12 PM
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08-03-21, 08:34 PM
#164
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But in response, if you're on a motorcycle, you do not want to take your right hand off the throttle when negotiating a turn. Hence, signal with your left arm.
But to the nannies saying pointing right to turn right doesn't make sense, you all should upgrade to broadband.
08-04-21, 05:36 AM
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08-04-21, 06:59 AM
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here's a hand signal, technically on a MUP but it is diverted onto a roadway then back off the roadway. kinda tricky
08-04-21, 08:00 AM
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Damn, I'm late to this thread.
But in response, if you're on a motorcycle, you do not want to take your right hand off the throttle when negotiating a turn. Hence, signal with your left arm.
But to the nannies saying pointing right to turn right doesn't make sense, you all should upgrade to broadband.
But in response, if you're on a motorcycle, you do not want to take your right hand off the throttle when negotiating a turn. Hence, signal with your left arm.
But to the nannies saying pointing right to turn right doesn't make sense, you all should upgrade to broadband.
Hell, I’ve never had a motorcycle endorsement and I know why motorcyclists can’t use their right hand to signal. Of course, as has also been pointed out, motorcycles have been required to have signals since the 70s so they don’t really need hand signals.
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08-04-21, 09:24 AM
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08-04-21, 10:00 AM
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Just because you can ride no hands doesn’t mean it is legal to go around a corner on the street. This also seems to cover the issue.
And, frankly, if you think it is seriously dumb to use a right hand signal for a right hand turn, it’s beyond stupid to corner a motorcycle on a street while riding no hands.
A moped or motorcycle operator shall not carry any package, bundle, or article that prevents the driver from keeping both hands upon the handlebars of the vehicle," (MCL 257.661)
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08-04-21, 10:09 AM
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BNSF over MRL tracks?
https://mdt.mt.gov/travinfo/docs/railmap.pdf
BTW, I'm expecting you to weigh in on the proper hand signals for turning a train.
08-04-21, 10:15 AM
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08-04-21, 10:36 AM
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BNSF over MRL tracks?
https://mdt.mt.gov/travinfo/docs/railmap.pdf
BTW, I'm expecting you to weigh in on the proper hand signals for turning a train.
https://mdt.mt.gov/travinfo/docs/railmap.pdf
BTW, I'm expecting you to weigh in on the proper hand signals for turning a train.
In college I had a FWB (before that term existed) who thought locomotives had steering wheels. I’m not kidding.
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08-04-21, 11:04 AM
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- It's legal in many states for cyclists to extend the right arm to signal a right turn.
- Many drivers are confused by the left-hand-up signal for a right-turn.
- Not many people are confused by the extended right hand (if they can see it).
- Hand signals are used by a tiny number of motor vehicle drivers.
- It doesn't matter too much if the following vehicle can't see the right turn signal (that's not the case for the left turn signal).
- It's legal in MI for cyclists to use an extended right hand.
Last edited by njkayaker; 08-04-21 at 11:42 AM.
08-04-21, 11:19 AM
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Seems your MI drivers manual says it's optional which method they use:
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/wedmk_16312_7.pdf
pdf page 70, manual page 56
This is such an easy thing to check in any state.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/wedmk_16312_7.pdf
pdf page 70, manual page 56
This is such an easy thing to check in any state.
Secondary sources are often not strictly correct (done, sometimes, to make things simpler). Also, this secondary source is talking about "what to look for" (not what signals to use).
In MI, the right-hand extended is only legal for cyclists.
Michigan Legislature - Section 257.648
(3) When a person is operating a vehicle and signal is given by means of the hand and arm, the operator shall signal as follows:
(a) For a left turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm horizontally.
(b) For a right turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm upward.
(c) To stop or decrease speed, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm downward.
(4) When a person is operating a bicycle and signal is given by means of the hand and arm, the operator shall signal as follows:
(a) For a left turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm horizontally.
(b) For a right turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm upward or shall extend his or her right hand and arm horizontally.
(a) For a left turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm horizontally.
(b) For a right turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm upward.
(c) To stop or decrease speed, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm downward.
(4) When a person is operating a bicycle and signal is given by means of the hand and arm, the operator shall signal as follows:
(a) For a left turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm horizontally.
(b) For a right turn, the operator shall extend his or her left hand and arm upward or shall extend his or her right hand and arm horizontally.
Last edited by njkayaker; 08-04-21 at 11:26 AM.
08-09-21, 11:22 AM
#175
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Signals are left handed in the US. Cars and motorcycles didn’t always have turn signals. If the guy was riding with his right arm up I would assume he’s stretching.