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Old 12-13-18, 08:14 AM
  #5401  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Fair enough - I thought it would be ok as looking at the Argon 18 Electron Pro frame that Glaetzer is riding at the moment, that has 76 degree seat tube and 72.7 head tube, so i assumed this would be workable as its "similar".
This is the case because Argon only have a pursuit bike, no other options for the fast(er) people, yet.
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Old 12-13-18, 11:32 AM
  #5402  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
This is the case because Argon only have a pursuit bike, no other options for the fast(er) people, yet.
Yeah, didn't the Australians sign a contract with Argon 18 before they had a proven sprint bike...or any sprint bike at all?
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Old 12-13-18, 05:09 PM
  #5403  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Yeah, didn't the Australians sign a contract with Argon 18 before they had a proven sprint bike...or any sprint bike at all?
Doesn't really seem to be a problem for Glaetzer at the moment...
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Old 12-13-18, 05:22 PM
  #5404  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Doesn't really seem to be a problem for Glaetzer at the moment...
Kinda makes the whole nitpicking over geometry and stiffness thing look a bit silly. Fast is fast and pretty much anything besides a sloppy piece of crap is going to be good enough
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Old 12-13-18, 06:46 PM
  #5405  
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Originally Posted by Minion1 View Post
and there is a rule of thumb that one degree change in STA or HTA equals one centimetre of reach, so that would (artificially) add to the reach number listed. Also, with a slacker seat tube angle, as the saddle goes up, compared to a bike with a steeper STA, your saddle gets further away from the bars by comparison so that helps lengthen the bike too - they are things that don't really show up on the frame's dimension drawings.
STA is completely unrelated to the reach dimension. Reach is the dimension form the bike's BB to the top of the centre of the head tube. This is why if you want to properly compare bikes to other bikes you just look at reach and stack. They take out all the wildly varying components of the geometry puzzle. Where HTA will matter is if you raise your stem and bars up off the steerer bearing. The higher you get, the further back you will come, how much depending on the HTA. For taller bodies, the primary concern with STA is if you can put your saddle where you want it to go, as the longer the seat tube plus post, the further back you will be.

Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Fair enough - I thought it would be ok as looking at the Argon 18 Electron Pro frame that Glaetzer is riding at the moment, that has 76 degree seat tube and 72.7 head tube, so i assumed this would be workable as its "similar".

What do you think about the geometry angles of the Look 875 Maddison? I expect its more tuned for endurance track riding but i would primarily be using it for Sprinting? My current Planet X Track Pro is too short in reach for me to get into a long & low aero position for sprinting.
In the beginning, anything will do. I started off riding a way too small 58cm Cinelli frame (could never find what model it was but it was the same geo as the Vigorelli, it came before it though) that I thought was awesome, but just too small. In the end when I stripped it down to sell it I had big fat skid marks in the chainstays where I was flexing the frame enough to leave a LOT of rubber. Now I'm on a 63cm TT custom Duratec. Stiff as hell and a whole lot bigger!

The problem that I saw with larger bikes in general, road and track, was that frame specifics like layup and tube profiles didn't change from the small through to the big boppers. That made for some less than stiff big size bikes. That concern pushed me away from a lot of brands, but some notable exceptions that I ended up putting money down on are Felt, Canyon and my Duratec track bike. Duratec know their stuff and changed tube profiles and thickness to give me what I wanted - the biggest frame they had made that wasn't a tandem and stiff enough to make a wannabe sprinting giant happy. I was hesitant steering away from carbon, but super happy in the end
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Old 12-13-18, 08:29 PM
  #5406  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
For taller bodies, the primary concern with STA is if you can put your saddle where you want it to go, as the longer the seat tube plus post, the further back you will be.
Thanks Brawlo, that's what I was getting at, a lot more succinctly than I put it!
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Old 12-16-18, 07:43 AM
  #5407  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Olympus has a bar option: https://olympusspeed.com/collections...rack-handlebar

Kaben, check out a Dolan DF4 (or DF3). They are pretty long, low, and affordable. Yes, there are some known issues - some have seat post slippage, but if you torque to spec (17-19nm) it's not a huge issue. And yes, the dropouts are short on the newer version.
Cheers Topflight, the Dolan actually looks like a real contender with 451 reach. The stack is very low though which means I will have a bunch of spacers but thatís not the end of the world. I would love something with slightly more reach but it seems only the Felt Tk FRD will get me the 460 reach of the peg but it doesnít retail in the UK.
have been looking at the fifty point one custom frames but the geo chart for the size 23 which gives me that long reach has some very strange numbers in it - the seat tube is absolutely colossal at 716mm for example and the stack is also massive at 600mm. It doesnít sound right and I canít picture it in my head.
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Old 12-16-18, 05:21 PM
  #5408  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Doesn't really seem to be a problem for Glaetzer at the moment...
or Morton for that matter.
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Old 12-16-18, 10:08 PM
  #5409  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
or Morton for that matter.
Word. Tangentially related: Other than those two, Aussie sprinting looking a bit thin at the moment. Are they even fielding a men's TS squad? (Kaarle McCulloch is still in the squad with Morton, I think ).
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Old 12-17-18, 07:00 AM
  #5410  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Word. Tangentially related: Other than those two, Aussie sprinting looking a bit thin at the moment. Are they even fielding a men's TS squad? (Kaarle McCulloch is still in the squad with Morton, I think ).
There's plenty of talent waiting in the wings, plenty
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Old 12-17-18, 10:49 AM
  #5411  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
There's plenty of talent waiting in the wings, plenty
This reminds me of when I used to be a photographer and did a photoshoot with Jake Rupp. He was a veteran skater by that time. Kinda on the older side, but still had a top tier sponsorship (Element). This was about 2003 or 2004 I'd guess.

We were out in Baltimore shooting some non-commissioned work on speculation to send out to the magazines. Basically, unpaid work hoping that a magazine would publish them and/or a sponsor would buy them. I'd make a few bucks and he fulfills his obligations to his sponsors by staying in the media with hot photos/videos.

[Jake, tired and winded from skating hard] "You know why I do this, Carleton? Why I'm skating with you on a beautiful Sunday afternoon when I could be chillin' with my lady on the sofa?

[Carleton, changing lenses] "No. Why?"

[Jake] "The kids."

[Carleton] "?"

[Jake] "The kids are good. I go skate with them when I travel and they are ******** goooood. No joke."

[Carleton] "Ha." (ok?)

[Jake, introspectively] "They want my job, man. They want this job. And they'll get it if I don't work hard. That's why I do this." [drops skateboard and kicks off for another try at the trick...]

Last edited by carleton; 12-17-18 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 12-17-18, 11:29 AM
  #5412  
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I just read that and thought of Pervis. I watched the Milton and Paris world cups online and it was sad to see him as pack fodder. He hasn't really slowed at all, the young'uns are really just that fast.
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Old 12-17-18, 03:11 PM
  #5413  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
I just read that and thought of Pervis. I watched the Milton and Paris world cups online and it was sad to see him as pack fodder. He hasn't really slowed at all, the young'uns are really just that fast.
People are doing sea level 9.5s and at one of the world cups a 9.8 was the qualfiqualifi cutoff, they're definitely getting faster
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Old 12-17-18, 04:16 PM
  #5414  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
People are doing sea level 9.5s and at one of the world cups a 9.8 was the qualfiqualifi cutoff, they're definitely getting faster
In the London world cup tis last weekend the sprint qualification the fastest times were:

Men: 9.647 with 19 riders with times less than 10.000 sec.

Women: 10.595 with 14 riders less than 11.000 sec.

Source: Tissot UCI Track Cycling World Cup IV | Tissot Timing
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Old 12-17-18, 05:03 PM
  #5415  
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There's definitely a changing of the guard happening. Kenny didn't make it past 8th finals I think? Where is Bauge? Dmitrev? The Germans? The Dutch are on a tear, and except for Bos (obviously) they are pretty young dudes. Looks similar on the ladies side.
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Old 12-17-18, 05:28 PM
  #5416  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Olympus has a bar option: https://olympusspeed.com/collections...rack-handlebar

Kaben, check out a Dolan DF4 (or DF3). They are pretty long, low, and affordable. Yes, there are some known issues - some have seat post slippage, but if you torque to spec (17-19nm) it's not a huge issue. And yes, the dropouts are short on the newer version.
Those look like rebadged Trigons.

Dixie Flyer is running a sale on theirs newish track handlebars. I'm looking forward to trying 'em.
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Old 12-17-18, 08:03 PM
  #5417  
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The Dutch Sprinters seem to be doing what British Cycling did several years ago. They are coming out of nowhere and starting to win...and win...and win big...and win bigger..,systematically. We later learned that Team GB did a lot of things:

- Embraced using power meters and analyzed the data.
- Hired a team Sports Psychologist.
- Early-adopted using narrow bars (outside of Japan).
- Wind tunnel testing...of everything.
- Spent a lot of money on the track program because it offered the most opportunities for Olympic Medals, something like 5 men's and 5 women's) of all sports. Maybe only Swimming offers more. So, from a program standpoint, it was seen as a great investment because there were so many shots at medals.

Anywho...

What are the Dutch doing? Because it seems like their entire system is working for their riders.
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Old 12-17-18, 10:12 PM
  #5418  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
What are the Dutch doing? Because it seems like their entire system is working for their riders.
Taking very good bmx and speed skaters and putting them on bicycles, that and riding is pretty popular over there.

Our situation is a funny one because at the elite end of town our track cycling is going pretty well, but the grassroots are definitely not possibly as a result of the HPU being the near sole reason CA gets Gov funding. It'll be sort of cool having a wind tunnel 5 minutes from my house, but not being on a national team I'll never get to use it 🤔
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Old 12-18-18, 05:25 AM
  #5419  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Yeah, didn't the Australians sign a contract with Argon 18 before they had a proven sprint bike...or any sprint bike at all?
It was mentioned in the BBC World Cup commentary at the weekend that anything that is to be used at the next Olympics has to be used at an event before the end of this current season, apparently itís a new UCI rule. Argon 18 need to get a move on with their new sprint frame.
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Old 12-18-18, 07:40 AM
  #5420  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
Taking very good bmx and speed skaters and putting them on bicycles, that and riding is pretty popular over there.

Our situation is a funny one because at the elite end of town our track cycling is going pretty well, but the grassroots are definitely not possibly as a result of the HPU being the near sole reason CA gets Gov funding. It'll be sort of cool having a wind tunnel 5 minutes from my house, but not being on a national team I'll never get to use it 🤔
Where are you located?
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Old 12-18-18, 08:25 AM
  #5421  
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New junior men's kilo record

​https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/cycling/fastest-teen-on-wheels-an-aussie/news-story/2e7d3096f85a437e2023a9c58d2f82e7
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Old 12-30-18, 05:17 AM
  #5422  
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"*While ANT+ can transmit data 4x per second, and Bluetooth SMART 64x per second, current power meters arenít running this fast. Why? It would be too hard on the battery. Most power meters record data closer to once per second. This way, the head unit can essentially enter sleep mode for very brief periods of time, thus prolonging battery life."
https://powermetercity.com/2016/02/1...h-power-meter/

I used to use cycleops speed/cadence bluetooth sensor on my bike to check my speed and cadence using my smartphone.
In my memory, bluetooth(smartphone) data refresh rate was faster than SRM PC7(records 2 per second).
Why don't track sprinters just use bluetooth system to record their data.
Or am I wrong with bluetooth data refresh rate?
Basically, if we have an app that records data 2 per second or more and able to download the data to view in Goldencheetah, that will be best bike computer for track cyclists.

BTW bluetooth sensor I used had trouble reading high cadence, but I could be because of the app.

Last edited by gycho77; 12-30-18 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 12-30-18, 12:29 PM
  #5423  
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I’ll have to check but I think the Huub Wattbike guys are using a pitot tube power sensor that samples 4x/s
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Old 12-30-18, 12:59 PM
  #5424  
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
"*While ANT+ can transmit data 4x per second, and Bluetooth SMART 64x per second, current power meters arenít running this fast. Why? It would be too hard on the battery. Most power meters record data closer to once per second. This way, the head unit can essentially enter sleep mode for very brief periods of time, thus prolonging battery life."
https://powermetercity.com/2016/02/1...h-power-meter/

I used to use cycleops speed/cadence bluetooth sensor on my bike to check my speed and cadence using my smartphone.
In my memory, bluetooth(smartphone) data refresh rate was faster than SRM PC7(records 2 per second).
Why don't track sprinters just use bluetooth system to record their data.
Or am I wrong with bluetooth data refresh rate?
Basically, if we have an app that records data 2 per second or more and able to download the data to view in Goldencheetah, that will be best bike computer for track cyclists.

BTW bluetooth sensor I used had trouble reading high cadence, but I could be because of the app.
It depends on the head unit that receives the data.

You can send 64 readings per second to the head unit, but if the head unit only aggregates the data into 1 second blocks and records that average, then that's all you get to see in the file when you download it.

So, it depends on the head unit more than the sensor.

For example, the Garmin 500 and SRM PowerControl 7 are both ANT+ head units. Using the same speed and cadence sensors, I can send data to both the Garmin and SRM head units. Garmin will record the average of data recorded every second, the SRM every 0.5 seconds.
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Old 12-30-18, 03:01 PM
  #5425  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
It depends on the head unit that receives the data.

You can send 64 readings per second to the head unit, but if the head unit only aggregates the data into 1 second blocks and records that average, then that's all you get to see in the file when you download it.

So, it depends on the head unit more than the sensor.

For example, the Garmin 500 and SRM PowerControl 7 are both ANT+ head units. Using the same speed and cadence sensors, I can send data to both the Garmin and SRM head units. Garmin will record the average of data recorded every second, the SRM every 0.5 seconds.
Thank you that was really to helpful.
I am going to look for iphone app that records more than Garmin and see how it works.
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