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Beer Emergency

Old 04-21-20, 12:44 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Didn’t really like that beer too much ... very bitter.
Yeah, wheat beers and super over hopped beers aren't a flavor I like at all. I was a home brewer in the '90s when a lot of this micro-brew/craft brew stuff was in its infancy. I still can't figure out the IPA craze going on.

If I remember my beer lore correctly, hops were originally used as at least partly as a preservative and a lot of hops made an IPA beer survive a sailing ship voyage from Great Britain to India.

When I go to a local micro-brew and I don't know what the trendy name of their beers mean, I always ask them what their least hopped beers are and pick from that short list.

Personally, I like lagers, non-IPA ales, stouts, etc. But everyone's taste buds aren't the same, so there's that.
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Old 04-21-20, 04:43 PM
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Dumping an excessive amount of hops into the brew kettle is a GREAT way to hide a nearly overwhelmingly flawed beer. If you really want to see a brewer's skill, look for beers with 30 or less IBU. Or look at their lagers, which may or may not be more highly hopped than that 30IBU limit I mentioned, but should be balanced. Think of beers this way: Belgian styles are like original rock bands: you can't really tell them their song isn't being performed right, since they don't really have to follow in anyone else's footsteps. IPAs used to be very well represented by beers brewed within style guidelines, until they became popular in the US. Then, like most good things in this world, the American Way ruined it and we now have BLACK PALE ALES (yikes!) and Imperial IPAs, Double IPAs, Red IPAs, and so one, to the point where they're not even brewed to style any longer, and instead they're brewed to see who can get the most ridiculously undrinkable, unenjoyable beer out there, which is so lopsided to the hops side of things that they should just skip the barley altogether and just sell liquid hop extract in a can, keg, bottle, growler, etc. (No, I refuse to say "crower" because it's stupid. Almost as stupid as BLACK PALE Ale.) Now then, think of German lagers as Chopin piano concertos, where there's no room for an idiot flailing away on a drumset or a mullet-clad nitwit head-banging his way through an ear-bleeding "solo"... Those lagers need to adhere to the chart, note for note, and improvisation is neither welcome nor expected. Very narrow style guidelines for color, bitterness, alc % and flavor. Only a true musician, or brewer, can pull it off properly. So, suck them hops, America, for you know not what you don't know.
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Old 04-21-20, 06:10 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
Dumping an excessive amount of hops into the brew kettle is a GREAT way to hide a nearly overwhelmingly flawed beer. If you really want to see a brewer's skill, look for beers with 30 or less IBU. Or look at their lagers, which may or may not be more highly hopped than that 30IBU limit I mentioned, but should be balanced. Think of beers this way: Belgian styles are like original rock bands: you can't really tell them their song isn't being performed right, since they don't really have to follow in anyone else's footsteps. IPAs used to be very well represented by beers brewed within style guidelines, until they became popular in the US. Then, like most good things in this world, the American Way ruined it and we now have BLACK PALE ALES (yikes!) and Imperial IPAs, Double IPAs, Red IPAs, and so one, to the point where they're not even brewed to style any longer, and instead they're brewed to see who can get the most ridiculously undrinkable, unenjoyable beer out there, which is so lopsided to the hops side of things that they should just skip the barley altogether and just sell liquid hop extract in a can, keg, bottle, growler, etc. (No, I refuse to say "crower" because it's stupid. Almost as stupid as BLACK PALE Ale.) Now then, think of German lagers as Chopin piano concertos, where there's no room for an idiot flailing away on a drumset or a mullet-clad nitwit head-banging his way through an ear-bleeding "solo"... Those lagers need to adhere to the chart, note for note, and improvisation is neither welcome nor expected. Very narrow style guidelines for color, bitterness, alc % and flavor. Only a true musician, or brewer, can pull it off properly. So, suck them hops, America, for you know not what you don't know.
You've got a pretty good point there... excessive alpha acids released in brew is not really a good sign or taste. While I like hops... I prefer them added after the brew... and done such that aroma is the key, not bitterness.

And yes, some of my favorite brews are actually low IBU and low ABV well balanced Belgian styles. Belgians can be pushed to ridiculous by turning them into high ABV tripels. And Pilsners... ahhh there's the delicate "notes" (following your metaphor) to be enjoyed, which has been ruined by imitators like Miller High Life, Budweiser, and others.
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Old 04-21-20, 06:32 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
... If I remember my beer lore correctly, hops were originally used as at least partly as a preservative and a lot of hops made an IPA beer survive a sailing ship voyage from Great Britain to India.....
Reminds me of a comment I made SS/FG forum a while back. Back in the day, the off-season was the time to ride fixed gear, to give the body a rest and work on form. Historically accurate, but clearly not what that crowd wanted to hear. In both cases, something once considered a necessary niche has gone mainstream. Guess I'm saying IPAs are the fixed gear of beers. I'm going to run and hide now.
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Old 04-21-20, 06:34 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
Then, like most good things in this world, the American Way ruined it and we now have BLACK PALE ALES (yikes!) and Imperial IPAs, Double IPAs, Red IPAs, and so one, to the point where they're not even brewed to style any longer, and instead they're brewed to see who can get the most ridiculously undrinkable, unenjoyable beer out there, which is so lopsided to the hops side of things that they should just skip the barley altogether and just sell liquid hop extract in a can, keg, bottle, growler, etc.
I think you're on to something there. Could make you a millionaire.
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Old 04-21-20, 06:36 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
Reminds me of a comment I made SS/FG forum a while back. Back in the day, the off-season was the time to ride fixed gear, to give the body a rest and work on form. Historically accurate, but clearly not what that crowd wanted to hear. In both cases, something once considered a necessary niche has gone mainstream. Guess I'm saying IPAs are the fixed gear of beers. I'm going to run and hide now.
Lol.
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Old 04-21-20, 07:05 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
You've got a pretty good point there... excessive alpha acids released in brew is not really a good sign or taste. While I like hops... I prefer them added after the brew... and done such that aroma is the key, not bitterness.

And yes, some of my favorite brews are actually low IBU and low ABV well balanced Belgian styles. Belgians can be pushed to ridiculous by turning them into high ABV tripels. And Pilsners... ahhh there's the delicate "notes" (following your metaphor) to be enjoyed, which has been ruined by imitators like Miller High Life, Budweiser, and others.
There's a lot more than just alpha acids to consider in hop utilization. I'd much rather discuss pitch rates vs. oxygenation, though. Hops are by and large and English notion, and I have so very little use for an Englishman or his conventions.
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Old 04-21-20, 07:20 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by no motor? View Post
Don't they sell good beer in your part of Texas?
Agree, atleast Shiner
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Old 04-21-20, 07:36 PM
  #59  
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Current stock of cooled beers in fridge.
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Old 04-21-20, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
There's a lot more than just alpha acids to consider in hop utilization. I'd much rather discuss pitch rates vs. oxygenation, though. Hops are by and large and English notion, and I have so very little use for an Englishman or his conventions.
Well, frankly, without hops, you've got sour or mead or barelywine. Hops make the difference... as does CO2, if we're talking beers and ales. Regarding pitch rates... the original German beer purity laws did not even consider yeast as an ingredient... so much for pitch. Next, I suppose you want to discuss water alkaline balance....

Enjoy.
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Old 04-21-20, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by joesch View Post
Agree, atleast Shiner
Ugggg Shiner... get thee to Fredericksburg and get some real ale, mate.
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Old 04-21-20, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Ugggg Shiner... get thee to Fredericksburg and get some real ale, mate.
The big cities in TX all have great micro breweries, especially Austin and Dallas.
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Old 04-21-20, 10:18 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Well, frankly, without hops, you've got sour or mead or barelywine. Hops make the difference... as does CO2, if we're talking beers and ales. Regarding pitch rates... the original German beer purity laws did not even consider yeast as an ingredient... so much for pitch. Next, I suppose you want to discuss water alkaline balance....

Enjoy.
Yeah, well, I didn’t say I brew without hops, so rest assured I am not brewing gruit. (There are loads of hops in barleywines, just not a lot of hop aroma due to aging, generally.)

Water chemistry does indeed play a big part in everything from mash efficiency to flocculation rate, attenuation, and flavor.
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Old 04-22-20, 03:51 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
Yeah, well, I didn’t say I brew without hops, so rest assured I am not brewing gruit. (There are loads of hops in barleywines, just not a lot of hop aroma due to aging, generally.)

Water chemistry does indeed play a big part in everything from mash efficiency to flocculation rate, attenuation, and flavor.
Of course it does... try making a pilsner with hard water... yes, water quality IS indeed important. But when was the last time a couple of typical American Budweiser afficinados discussed that aspect while praising their cheap imitation of lager.

But, I do agree with you... just as I understand that the partiular strain of yeast is also massively important.

Oh, and yeah, you got got me on the barleywine... more hops than I realized.
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Old 04-22-20, 04:14 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by joesch View Post
The big cities in TX all have great micro breweries, especially Austin and Dallas.
Then why fall back on Shiner as a good beer? It was always the pat response... "oh, we have Shiner..." as if it was something to be proud of.

And yes, you are right, Micros have popped up in bigger cities in Texas.

The irony is, Fredericksburg is not a big town, and has had great beer, for a long time.
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Old 04-22-20, 05:58 AM
  #66  
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The point was rather than Bud Light Stone might as well drink Shiner if in TX. Diet beer vs real beer.
Now if one want to get a good beer, like an imperial Stout, then there are lots of excellent micro breweries and many of those sold in the super markets.
Sorry ahead to those that like light beer and this is of course my opinion.

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Old 04-22-20, 06:09 AM
  #67  
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Sad! 😢
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Old 04-22-20, 07:22 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Then why fall back on Shiner as a good beer? It was always the pat response... "oh, we have Shiner..." as if it was something to be proud of.

And yes, you are right, Micros have popped up in bigger cities in Texas.

The irony is, Fredericksburg is not a big town, and has had great beer, for a long time.
Just the other day I walked into my local liquor store, but I didn't want liquor. So, I wandered over to the beer coolers. Plenty of graphic-design-project cans of IPAs. Plenty of Bud, Coors, Miller Lite, etc. Also, Modelo, Tecate, and Dos Equis Lager. And six types of Shiner.

Shiner Bock isn't my first choice, but it was the choice for me that day.

Summer ain't here yet, though. When the heavy sweat high humidity days arrive, I'll be buying Colorado Gatorade again.
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Old 04-22-20, 07:27 AM
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Fredericksburg, Texas. I haven't been there in a long time. Being that it's a 4+ hour drive from my house has something to do with that.
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Old 04-22-20, 07:40 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Yeah, wheat beers and super over hopped beers aren't a flavor I like at all. I was a home brewer in the '90s when a lot of this micro-brew/craft brew stuff was in its infancy. I still can't figure out the IPA craze going on.

If I remember my beer lore correctly, hops were originally used as at least partly as a preservative and a lot of hops made an IPA beer survive a sailing ship voyage from Great Britain to India.
I'm sure they were, but gruit was also used as a preservative. Beer in general used to be a preservative of the necessary drinking water and relying on high percentage of alcohol must have had it's obvious disadvantages.A lot of Belgians who are over 70 now grew up with 'table beer' as a young kid, just to have something to dirnk and certainly not because they liked it, they didn't. This was 1-2% alcohol.

I've also tasted a beer that was brewed here based on a recipe from 1497 they found in the city archives. This was one of the first local hop beers as the German hop beers were starting to take over the market, it had a lot of oat to. Anyway, it just wasn't tasting very well but given it's success it must have been quite an improvement on gruit beer. So I guess beer has developped to really nice tasting stuff within demands of preservation, and not that quickly.

When I go to a local micro-brew and I don't know what the trendy name of their beers mean, I always ask them what their least hopped beers are and pick from that short list.

Personally, I like lagers, non-IPA ales, stouts, etc. But everyone's taste buds aren't the same, so there's that.
Of course they aren't, but they aren't totally independent either. Almost all processed foods are sweetened, things like brussel sprouts and Belgian endive are bred less bitter, all kinds of fruits and vegetables are bred sweeter than they ever were and people get used to it. Especially because children naturally favour sweet over other tastes, people get used to it from a young age at the expense of more difficult tastes like bitter and sour. I like to call that infantilization of taste, to be fair I've always had an interest in tastes that were a bit disturbing at first and wasn't raised a sweettooth. But I've noticed with others that their taste in beer tended to shift to the more hoppy lagers and away from the sweet ones when growing up (the start drinking age used to be 14-16 here for many). So I wonder if it's only personal.

I like the hoppier lagers, like Jever, Urquell and Grolsch. My issue with IPA's is that most don't seem finished. They are on to something and then the man buns come on their fixies with their marketing plans and the IPA gets launched before it got balanced and rounded, not necessarily meaning less hops. I was in a bar with friends recently and I got so fed up with those unfinished products I ordered a Westvleteren blond, which made the young bartender who had admitted he didn't know much about beer disappear in the cellar for a while. That backfired because one of my friends knew a local bar that had it but it wasn't that local and the rain and cold made it a terrible bike ride, he's a very committed person once he gets an idea, and he has an e-bike while only my rear rack could carry friend nr. 2. It was a nice bar with nice beers and he knew the owner but it had run out of Westvleteren.
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Old 04-22-20, 07:58 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Fredericksburg, Texas. I haven't been there in a long time. Being that it's a 4+ hour drive from my house has something to do with that.
​​​​​​You're in then next town over, then!

I kid, I kid. Just that my experience living and moreso cycling in west Texas for a while was that it ain't so much that Texas is big, but that there's a whole lot of empty between watering holes.
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Old 04-22-20, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
I'm sure they were, but gruit was also used as a preservative. Beer in general used to be a preservative of the necessary drinking water and relying on high percentage of alcohol must have had it's obvious disadvantages.A lot of Belgians who are over 70 now grew up with 'table beer' as a young kid, just to have something to dirnk and certainly not because they liked it, they didn't. This was 1-2% alcohol.
Wasn't that also called "small beer"? For when you couldn't safely drink the water.
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Old 04-22-20, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post

Of course they aren't, but they aren't totally independent either. Almost all processed foods are sweetened, things like brussel sprouts and Belgian endive are bred less bitter, all kinds of fruits and vegetables are bred sweeter than they ever were and people get used to it. Especially because children naturally favour sweet over other tastes, people get used to it from a young age at the expense of more difficult tastes like bitter and sour. I like to call that infantilization of taste, to be fair I've always had an interest in tastes that were a bit disturbing at first and wasn't raised a sweettooth. But I've noticed with others that their taste in beer tended to shift to the more hoppy lagers and away from the sweet ones when growing up (the start drinking age used to be 14-16 here for many). So I wonder if it's only personal.
Everything is over sugared here, too. I like sugar in my desserts or candy (I mean chocolate), but I sure get tired of it in almost everything else. There was a time when Texas didn't have pre-sweetened iced tea at every place imaginable. It invaded us slowly but surely from the U.S. "South". That southern sweet tea might as well be syrup.

Now that I think of it, not too many decades ago Texas food was considered bland. It really seemed like "sustanance" food. It never tasted so good that you would eat a lot of it. Old school chili con carne is like that.
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Old 04-22-20, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Wasn't that also called "small beer"? For when you couldn't safely drink the water.
Not in Belgium I presume, that's where I know it from, I just translated it directly from Flemish. Probably there was a need for it in more places, what suprised me is that it was still normal in the 20th century.

Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Everything is over sugared here, too. I like sugar in my desserts or candy (I mean chocolate), but I sure get tired of it in almost everything else. There was a time when Texas didn't have pre-sweetened iced tea at every place imaginable. It invaded us slowly but surely from the U.S. "South". That southern sweet tea might as well be syrup.

Now that I think of it, not too many decades ago Texas food was considered bland. It really seemed like "sustanance" food. It never tasted so good that you would eat a lot of it. Old school chili con carne is like that.
As with many excesses of capitalism, I'm sure the US is ahead. It's probably got to do with farming subsidies and overproduction of corn. But in general sweetening is an easy way out in food processing, it's masks a lot of shortcomings and salt, and it's a cheap and easy temptress by itself. I don't believe anyone here noticed that the amount of sugar in Coca Cola has increased spectacularly over the last decades. I didn't notice the lack of bitterness in sprouts and endives, I had to read about it first and I have been 'off sugar' for decades, as in I just don't like it anymore. So I guess there's a shift in general taste that goes mostly unnoticed until we for example drink beers that haven't changed much in more than hundred years. Btw, don't know about old school but I often add some pineapple to the chili, and a bit of chocolate but the dark bitter one. And I believe pepper hot dishes go great with a hoppy lager, especially Mexican food.
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Old 04-22-20, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Fredericksburg, Texas. I haven't been there in a long time. Being that it's a 4+ hour drive from my house has something to do with that.
That's a "local drive", in Texas.
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