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Old 04-21-20, 11:45 AM
  #5801  
herbarium
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stripped threads on hub lock ring side

I bought a used Miche Primato track hub (only fixed on one side, nothing on the other) and I foolishly built it on some Mavic Open Pro's before checking the threads.

The threads for the lock ring are striped. I can get only 1 rotation on it before the lock ring slips. Any advice on this? Is there a way I can chase the threads or retap them? (And yes I have been tightening the lock ring anti-clockwise)

It would be a shame to deconstruct the wheel and the cog threads are fine.



the initial thread on the lock ring side are stripped on this hub
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Old 04-21-20, 03:51 PM
  #5802  
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Unfortunately not a good way I know of to recover that.

If the wheel is track only... you could run it without a lockring, a fair amount of people do that.. and once it's on tight (a few good pedalstrokes) it will take some consistent backpressure or skid type maneuver to unscrew it.

Once, for a mountain biker we used a bottom bracket lockring we had laying around and screwed it onto the hub (same threads as the cog) now obviously in that scenario the cog and the lockring would both have the same directional threads, but with no directional force on the lockring (like the chain puts on the cog) it would be tough to spin it off.
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Old 05-10-20, 02:55 PM
  #5803  
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Sorry Morelock if I am responding improperly to your last post. Couldn't find out how to change the subject. I was reading about pedals in the earlier thread (2014 ish) and am in need of getting a new pedal system Ultra or Dura Ace level is ok by me. it seemed the old PD-7810s were highly recommended over some of the others but have been discontinued for a while now. I will be riding more of the enduro stuff at a Masters level (if we ever get out of this mess of a Covid 19) so standing start in the 500 and pursuit and mostly just general riding. So all who are we liking for all around Track pedals available today? Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-10-20, 04:53 PM
  #5804  
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Moke Honestly all (big brand) pedals in the current day/age are fine for track for the vast majority of us. For everyone else, there are plenty of strap systems/diy solutions to make sure you don't pull a pedal. All the major brands have been used (successfully) by pro's/top sprinters.
Shimano, Look, Speedplay and (eww) Time are all acceptable
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Old 05-10-20, 05:10 PM
  #5805  
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Bike recommendation for njs build?

Hi, new here, not sure if right thread or way of posting. Could someone please recommend me a nice japanese frame for an NJS type build? I know the 3 rensho, Nagasawa and Anchor but the well know companies are too expensive for frames. Is there a great steel frame I can get cheaper? Like maybe something vintage (nishiki, sekai) but with high quality steel? Steel and price are important, not pedigree. Also brake holes in the forks are needed. It doesn't have to be a track frame per se. Thanks in advance. Cheers
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Old 05-11-20, 03:36 AM
  #5806  
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8pilgrim8 and Phil the power Taylor are 2 eBay sellers selling used Kieren gear from Japan, Phil does more frames. A lot of the frames will be dented but it might be worth looking there, just check the frames carefully.
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Old 05-11-20, 04:21 AM
  #5807  
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Originally Posted by YvesRouban View Post
Hi, new here, not sure if right thread or way of posting. Could someone please recommend me a nice japanese frame for an NJS type build? I know the 3 rensho, Nagasawa and Anchor but the well know companies are too expensive for frames. Is there a great steel frame I can get cheaper? Like maybe something vintage (nishiki, sekai) but with high quality steel? Steel and price are important, not pedigree. Also brake holes in the forks are needed. It doesn't have to be a track frame per se. Thanks in advance. Cheers
You won't find an actual NJS bike with brake holes, but Panasonic does make a road training version of their NJS track frame you can fit F&R brakes to. Prices are going up on those and I think they are now around $1000 for a new one. And they will make them to order for you. Last I checked there were some western vendors who sold them to non-Japanese speakers.
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Old 05-11-20, 01:35 PM
  #5808  
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Originally Posted by YvesRouban View Post
Hi, new here, not sure if right thread or way of posting. Could someone please recommend me a nice japanese frame for an NJS type build? I know the 3 rensho, Nagasawa and Anchor but the well know companies are too expensive for frames. Is there a great steel frame I can get cheaper? Like maybe something vintage (nishiki, sekai) but with high quality steel? Steel and price are important, not pedigree. Also brake holes in the forks are needed. It doesn't have to be a track frame per se. Thanks in advance. Cheers
Check eBay -- search for keirin track frames. Numerous frames at various prices. If you live in the USA I here there may be shipping issues related to covid-19.

Just curios; why do you want such a bike?
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Old 05-11-20, 05:50 PM
  #5809  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
You won't find an actual NJS bike with brake holes, but Panasonic does make a road training version of their NJS track frame you can fit F&R brakes to. Prices are going up on those and I think they are now around $1000 for a new one. And they will make them to order for you. Last I checked there were some western vendors who sold them to non-Japanese speakers.
If you wanted to be really hip you could also run the fork/seatstay clamp brakes the actual racers use

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Old 06-01-20, 12:02 PM
  #5810  
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Anyone ever tried or have fitted bigger chainring to a Dolan TC1 ? I am looking to buy 56-58-60 chainring but not sure they will clear the chainstay
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Old 07-13-20, 07:06 PM
  #5811  
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Is there a good app for lap counting? I'm not a track cyclist, but going to be doing some laps at my local outdoor velodrome (because it's so close to my house). Ideally, I'd listen to a podcast, but get audio interruptions every 10 laps or so. Is there anything like that?
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Old 07-13-20, 07:54 PM
  #5812  
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Not that I know of. Generally track tries to avoid devices on the track, especially if there are other riders.
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Old 07-15-20, 08:06 PM
  #5813  
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Originally Posted by stevage View Post
Is there a good app for lap counting? I'm not a track cyclist, but going to be doing some laps at my local outdoor velodrome (because it's so close to my house). Ideally, I'd listen to a podcast, but get audio interruptions every 10 laps or so. Is there anything like that?
1: Take a certification course. It's not just about teaching you how to stay upright on the track. It's also about keeping you safe so you know what to expect and what's expected of you.

2: Audio signals are common on the track, like "STICK!", "STAY!", "RAILS!", or "BOARDS!". Headphones are prohibited because you wouldn't be able to hear such commands.

The two rules above can be summed up as: It's not just about you out there.
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Old 07-15-20, 08:25 PM
  #5814  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
1: Take a certification course. It's not just about teaching you how to stay upright on the track. It's also about keeping you safe so you know what to expect and what's expected of you.

2: Audio signals are common on the track, like "STICK!", "STAY!", "RAILS!", or "BOARDS!". Headphones are prohibited because you wouldn't be able to hear such commands.

The two rules above can be summed up as: It's not just about you out there.
Oops, I guess that's what I get for posting in the track cycling forum In the half-dozen or so times I've used this velodrome, there was once one actual track rider using it. (A couple of times parents with kids or whatever). I don't think I'd stick around if there was more than one other rider.
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Old 07-16-20, 07:25 AM
  #5815  
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If you can live without the podcast and leave your phone on a tripod pointed at the finish line, there is an IPhone app called SprintTimer that does a pretty good job of counting laps...
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Old 07-18-20, 10:47 AM
  #5816  
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Hi Carleton,

I'm on the fence between Dura Ace 7710 and Sugino DD2 cranksets. Seeing how the DD2 are relatively new, is the Dura Ace becoming "outdated" even though it's still considered very high quality? Which would you go with?
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Old 07-19-20, 11:26 AM
  #5817  
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Originally Posted by txela View Post
Hi Carleton,

I'm on the fence between Dura Ace 7710 and Sugino DD2 cranksets. Seeing how the DD2 are relatively new, is the Dura Ace becoming "outdated" even though it's still considered very high quality? Which would you go with?
I have no experience (first or secondhand) with Sugino DD2, so I'd pick the Dura Ace.

The Dura Ace has been used at the highest levels of the sport. They are the cranks to which all others are compared. If you get a set now, they will last longer than the typical track career. The only down side is price. A new set of arms and bottom bracket can be expensive. That being said, they hold a really high resale value and can be sold very quickly.

The DD2 may be just as good, I just don't know anything about them. I do now that they've been out for a few years now and for some reason they aren't popular. Not sure why. It could simply be that SRAM Omniums own the lower end of the race market and Dura Ace own the higher end (power meter cranks aside).
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Old 11-29-20, 04:50 PM
  #5818  
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Why do track gearing charts take into consideration tyre width but not crank arm length? Crank length has a considerable impact on gearing, so should be a factor?
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Old 11-29-20, 05:32 PM
  #5819  
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That would be gain ratio, which is obviously personal depending on your crank length and also your wheel size and tyre size. The gearing charts are a nice basic way to compare gears to gears. If you're picky, most of the available tables reflect a nominal 27" wheel rather than the now most widely used 700C wheel. Gain ratio only really matters if you're comparing one person's gears to another person's. If you're looking at your own, the other factors outside of chainring/cog cancel each other out
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Old 11-29-20, 05:37 PM
  #5820  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
That would be gain ratio, which is obviously personal depending on your crank length and also your wheel size and tyre size. The gearing charts are a nice basic way to compare gears to gears. If you're picky, most of the available tables reflect a nominal 27" wheel rather than the now most widely used 700C wheel. Gain ratio only really matters if you're comparing one person's gears to another person's. If you're looking at your own, the other factors outside of chainring/cog cancel each other out
ok, just curious as I frequently get asked about gearing to compare to others, but nobody seems to ask about crank length.

Having ridden bikes with like or higher gearing and short cranks there is definitely a noticeable 'easiness' from riding shorter cranks (even 5mm)..
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Old 11-29-20, 06:26 PM
  #5821  
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Taper week: less intensity, duration or both?

G'day all

I've been training for a short time trial on the track. 3 laps from a standing start. If I had to put a label on it, this is typical 'pursuiter' profile, less than three minutes flat chat. Spent the past few months doing weights and stretches mixed with endro and lately power sessions on the bike. Training times are coming down nicely. I'm in the Master age group (recovery takes sooooo much longer than it used to!) The big day is 2 weeks away...
This is my first serious attempt at a track training plan. I'm curious as to how best manage my final week. Taper seems sensible (fresh and loaded for the big day). From what I can gleen, there are three choices: 1. Keep the duation of the bike workouts but wind the intensity back to 50-70%; 2. Keep the intensity but drop the duration by a similar amount; or 3) drop intensity and duration for the final week - spin short and easy.

My confusion mainly stems from the advice I've seen being aimed at endurance athletes. Can't seem to find a lot on power/sprint training.

Sage council of the hive mind gratefully appreciated

Cheers
W
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Old 11-29-20, 07:09 PM
  #5822  
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From what I know and what I've seen.......it's personal. A taper is widely prescribed, but I know a few high level masters riders that either do minimal taper, or no taper at all. It's something you will need to test on yourself to see what works best for you. Unless you've done some testing on yourself already, perhaps just pick an option and see how you go. You could get 10 different answers on here, but you won't know what works best for you until you try something out and see what the results are.

I would go back and look at your training. If you're knocking out quality training sessions 2-3 times a week and your numbers are constantly going up, why would you go and do a soft taper week? Maybe give yourself 2-3 days break prior to comp rather than a whole week. Alternatively, I know a masters guy who can only really manage 1 all out session per week, yet he is also hands down the fastest rider that I know (almost WR fast) and he would do a managed taper of up to 2 weeks prior to competition. Different strokes for different folks
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Old 11-29-20, 07:28 PM
  #5823  
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Thanks Brawlo. Yeah, it's that overwhelming desire not to stuff a few solid months of training by getting it 'wrong' at the end! Times are headed in the right drection but I wouldn't say the legs felt "fresh". I suppose you're right though. Pending further input, I'll go with instinct and see how it ends up.
Cheers
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Old 11-30-20, 09:08 PM
  #5824  
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In the roadie/enduro world, nothing is a maximum strength effort. So, there isn't really a need to maintain peak maximum strength going into a big event. It's all about having a healthy and vibrant fuel system (red blood cells, nutrients, etc...). "Blood Doping" is a cheat because it replaces "fatigued" blood with fresh blood rich in red blood cells extracted when the athlete was fully recovered some time in the past. Red blood cells carry oxygen. More means more efficient energy transfer.

Speaking generally about strength training and peak performance:

Growth comes from a mix of Intensity and Volume. One without the other won't yield much overall growth.

Intensity is how hard something is. Volume is how much you do. Programming is adjusting the levels of Intensity and Volume depending on the goals and time period.

For example, when training for strength sports not only do you want to lift progressively heavier weights, you also want to induce a "training effect" by adding more sets and/or reps. This is a stimulation and overcompensation pattern. Basically, trick your body into thinking you need it to be stronger in order for you to survive (or die) and your body will respond (e.g. subsistence farming for a literal living...as in to eat)

When peaking for strength sports, even in the 2 weeks leading up to your big event, you want to keep the intensity as high as you are currently in your program, but you want to cut the Volume.

The way this looks in practice is:

- If you are in the gym: do your normal warmup routine for, say, squats or deadlift and do one working set then shut it down.
- If you are on the track: do your normal warmup routine and a handful of full-gas efforts (standing starts, standing half-laps, flying 100s) with full recovery between efforts, then shut it down.

These will result in abnormally short workouts and abnormally short recovery periods (you won't need as much food or sleep).

It's not uncommon, and actually quite common, for sprinters to hit PBs in the gym during the week leading up to their big event of the year while their enduro teammates are "tapering" and doing very light work on the bike.

Just be aware that there will be a couple of weeks of peak performance followed by a deep trough of lack-luster performance.

Many sprinters will record PBs the week of Nationals only to fall flat when they race at home a two weeks later, maybe even logging season-low numbers. That's normal.

Last edited by carleton; 11-30-20 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 11-30-20, 09:23 PM
  #5825  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
In the roadie/enduro world, nothing is a maximum strength effort. So, there isn't really a need to maintain peak maximum strength going into a big event. It's all about having a healthy and vibrant fuel system (red blood cells, nutrients, etc...). "Blood Doping" is a cheat because it replaces "fatigued" blood with fresh blood rich in red blood cells extracted when the athlete was fully recovered some time in the past. Red blood cells carry oxygen. More means more efficient energy transfer.

Speaking generally about strength training and peak performance:

Growth comes from a mix of Intensity and Volume. One without the other won't yield much overall growth.

Intensity is how hard something is. Volume is how much you do. Programming is adjusting the levels of Intensity and Volume depending on the goals and time period.

For example, when training for strength sports not only do you want to lift progressively heavier weights, you also want to induce a "training effect" by adding more sets and/or reps. This is a stimulation and overcompensation pattern. Basically, trick your body into thinking you need it to be stronger in order for you to survive (or die) and your body will respond (e.g. subsistence farming for a literal living...as in to eat)

When peaking for strength sports, even in the 2 weeks leading up to your big event, you want to keep the intensity as high as you are currently in your program, but you want to cut the Volume.

The way this looks in practice is:

- If you are in the gym: do your normal warmup routine for, say, squats or deadlift and do one working set then shut it down.
- If you are on the track: do your normal warmup routine and a handful of full-gas efforts (standing starts, standing half-laps, flying 100s) with full recovery between efforts, then shut it down.

These will result in abnormally short workouts and abnormally short recovery periods (you won't need as much food or sleep).

It's not uncommon, and actually quite common, for sprinters to hit PBs in the gym during the week leading up to their big event of the year while their enduro teammates are "tapering" and doing very light work on the bike.

Just be aware that there will be a couple of weeks of peak performance followed by a deep trough of lack-luster performance.

Many sprinters will record PBs the at Nationals only to fall flat when they race at home a two weeks later, maybe even logging season-low numbers. That's normal.
Thanks Carleton, so option 2. That makes the most sense. Much appreciated.

Re strength, I've got good results following hypertrophy (build muscle) and strength (what to do with it) path. Highly recommended. Google it Fitsra has a bit of the theory behind it on their web site (although there's a lot of places pushing that approach).
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