Elbeinlaw

I bought a Bike Friday New World Tourist--used--in the last six months and have quickly grown attached to it. Now the gear changer for the internally geared hub has disintegrated. It's no longer made. It doesn't look like something I can machine (since it's plastic). There are lots of ways to address this, but practically speaking, the best option (other than buying a replacement) is to "replace the drive train." According to BF, the bike is constructed so that this is possible. According to BF's support folks, this entails involves getting new:BF guessed the cost would probably be around $350 (this is not their estimate for their doing the work). Any thoughts on whether this SWAG is within the likely range for either parts, or parts & labor?

HillRider

Depending on the level of components you choose and how savy a shopper you are that estimate seems reasonable. However, have you considered just getting a replacement IGH? There are numerous current models available from Shimano, SRAM and some others.

dsbrantjr

What brand and model of internally-geared hub does the bike have? There is probably another type of shifter available since it is unlikely that BF has a unique hub design. This would be a lot more economical than replacing the entire drivetrain.

Gresp15C

I suggest showing some pics. Admittedly I'm philosophically biased against replacing what can be fixed. Finding all the parts that you need for a complete rebuild might be hard, given that everything has to match up,such as the number of spokes and the hub.

Elbeinlaw

Thanks for your comments. Like y'all, I'm philosophically opposed to buying what can be fixed, and I'd economically opposed to buying new when I can buy used. Your comments are very funny, because as I was doing my mid-day 3 miles just now, I thought, "Hey, maybe I could replace THE HUB, not the whole drive train." I'll look into it.

L134 

I have a NWT with a 3 speed internally geared, 7 speed cassette hub and a single chainring. Is this how yours is set up? I think I saw recently that somebody is making such an animal (maybe not 7 sp) Otherwise, I’m sort of confused as to what actually failed, the shift mechanism on the bars or at the hub? If on the bars, I shift mine with bar end shifters. Sure, I don’t get the 3 set clicks and have to guess a bit on the shifter position, but it works. If the plastic cable disconnect back at the hub failed, I should think some kind of work around could be devised? I can’t think of any other plastic part back there?

An entire drive train replacement sounds pretty drastic to me and $350 kinda low for such an undertaking. Does yours even have a front derailleur? Of course, I shift friction not indexed partially to avoid such situations.

Elbeinlaw

Thanks for your response: you made me realize that I made an assumption about how all BFs are set up. My set up is: rear (normal) derailler, 8 gears. The "front" derailer is an internal gear hub with 3 speeds … on the back wheel, which is nice and confusing when the front gear changer is on the back.

What failed was the "gear changer" or "box" on the "front" derailler, which cannot be fixed or replaced because it's a gazillion years old. So replacing that either requires replacing the IHG and rebuilding the wheel, or doing that whole "replace the drive train" thing. I agree with you--it seems like more of an undertaking than would be worth it, and the $350--supposed for P & L--seems waaaaaay too low.

2_i 

For the start, how many speeds are there in the hub? Are there any manufacturer markings on the hub? What info did you provide to BF in them suggesting the solution? Can you reproduce that info here? Shifters are cheap and easy devices and, on the face of it, it just does not make a lot of sense to go into a rebuild when one caused trouble.

2_i 

Any 3-speed shifter will shift any 3-speed hub. The whole situation seems like a complete nonsense.

P.S. Maybe I should qualify it. Some 3sp hub shifters will not shift some 3sp hubs, but this has next to zero impact on the situation.

dsbrantjr

It is almost a certainty that you will be able to find a new shifter for your 3-speed hub, now that you have clarified that the shifter is broken. Especially if you have a Sturmey-Archer hub; S-A has been making hubs for 100 years, so yours is a comparative youngster.

Amt0571

If its a DualDrive it works with any 3 speed front shifter. I have one working with a SRAM X7 trigger.

Elbeinlaw

BREAKING NEWS!!! First of all, props to Peter B at Bike Friday. Though he's a sales person, he's also very knowledgeable about the BFs. He talked me through an inspection of the gear shifter box.

Second: It may be the case that the fault is the pin that comes out of the hub to connect with the gear changer box. It's bent. I've got a feeling it shouldn't be. Since you guys are all very knowledgeable about internal gear hubs, let me ask you two questions: (1) are they standard size? (2) if I can't find a replacement, might unbending it work?

Thanks for your previous input, and thanks in advance for your additional input.

alcjphil

What is the make and model of the hub? This question has been asked and not answered. Even a picture would be helpful

2_i 

You seem to be jumping from a disintegrated shifter to a flaw for the hub side and I am not convinced about a causal connection. In any case, the part you seem to be talking about is the so-called indicator chain and these are different for different hubs. A minor bent can be straightened, but, if you need a replacement, here you can find a discussion of their characteristics. I just see no circumstances under which the indicator could get bent.

L134 

If you think the indicator (seems to be what that part is called) is bent, I shouldn’t think trying to straighten it would do any harm but first, can you pull it with your hand and feel it doing its job? Can you unscrew it? Is the shift cable tight enough to pull the indicator? Go to Sturmey-archer.com. Contact them. Lots of parts catalogues on line showing lots of shifter options. Go to a bike shop. I think you have a relatively simple fix available but nobody really knows what is going on. That BF would suggest a completely new drive train just seems way over the top to me. Take a look at this and see if it helps: https://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/...20FREEHUBS.pdf

2_i 

By all signs, BF was presented with similarly chaotic info and could not tell top from bottom either.

L134 

Agreed!

Elbeinlaw

Wow. I asked a question about whether $350 sounded reasonable to replace an entire drive train. From there, some of you have decided that I am--let's see--nonsensical, nonresponsive, chaotic, and generally stupid. Because I have not provided enough data to answer a question I never asked and therefore didn't need to provide data for. Just wow. Social media at it's best.

As for the comments that doubted whether I could determine whether the pin* was bent … You're right. Since I'm nonsensical, nonresponsive, chaotic and generally stupid, of course, I'm not competent to determine whether this is a bend …




… even though I've built decks, sheds, boats, musical instruments.
------------
*"Pin" was the BF tech's term for it.

2_i 

BF and the community here was trying to help and it still makes no sense.

Elbeinlaw

L134:

Thank you for your thoughtful and relevant and helpful reply. Seems to be rare in these parts.

Thank you also for the reference sites … I'll take a look at the SA site. The "pin" looked to me like I could easily straighten it--the tolerances in the pin/indicator/"chain"-"to gear-changer-box" are so imprecise that it doesn't look like it needs to be a perfectly straightened rod.

But I just want to confirm: it's supposed to be straight, right?

Elbeinlaw

Some members of the community were trying to help. I'm grateful for anyone who took the time to stop and look at my question, and try to provide helpful input. That's the best of BikeForum's community. Would that it were the standard.

However: as per usual on social media, some were trying to prove that their huevos were bigger than a poster's, that they were smarter, and that they were experts on what should have been asked and what the situation clearly must be beyond the confines of the actual question asked. Maybe those people should all go outside and play while the adults are talking.

2_i 

In this version it seems to be called a linkage rod, but there seem to be no offerings around with the same particular details. It looks like it unscrewed itself and then was pulled when halfway out, leading to the bent. The photo is too fuzzy to tell whether it will work well after straightening out. Presumably it will at least for a while, but in the long term one may want to look for a replacement.

L134 

I believe so. I think I saw similar looking items on the SA website. It is different than mine but mine is older than yours. I would see if you can find a model number on the hub somewhere and then call SA.

rhenning

I think BF may have been using Sachs or SRAM hubs. They used to make a 3x7 system. The cables are different and unique to them. Roger

2_i 

It looks indeed like Sram Dual Drive. Aaron's Bicycle Repair in Seattle seems to specialize in gear hub overhaul and may have advice.

The part is here, but, looking at the original, the straightening should be presumably sufficient.