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Let's hear it for your LBS ...

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Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Let's hear it for your LBS ...

Old 10-19-20, 03:05 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
For the life of me I don't know how Wolf Tooth hasn't had the ever loving geebus sued out of them.
Maybe they've got some fine print somewhere that says, for 11s Di2 only?

Oh wait, that only locks out small/small with a compact crank.
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Old 10-19-20, 06:13 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Even with a wolf tooth road link for the capactity the rear derailleur isn't capable of wrapping the tooth differences. Leads to chains that are too long. They literally sag on when in the small chainring when you get down to the last 2-4 cogs.

There's a reason there's a stated wrap capacity and max cog with rear derailleurs. For the life of me I don't know how Wolf Tooth hasn't had the ever loving geebus sued out of them.
Honest questions, what's the safety issue if the chain goes slack in the bottom 2-3 gears? I'm just curious, because my mountain bike was originally setup with a XTR triple crank and 9-speed 11-34 cassette, but used a Saint RD. So it would go slack in the top couple of gears. I'm fairly certain this was on a race spec bike.
I eventually replaced the chainring with a bashguard and locked out the top gear, making it 2x. That's because I found the slack annoying, but I never considered it unsafe. Is there some scenario where this could cause significant damage?
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Old 02-10-21, 05:24 PM
  #78  
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I've been a shop rat for 20 years and I might add a couple of points:

A 3/5 minute job doesn't exist. In no shop I've ever worked in has a job taken 3 minutes. It takes longer than that to get a name, phone number, bike type and issue, entering the bike into a booking system, and checking for parts. That's not even the mechanic touching the bike, that is someone like me booking the job in. I have NEVER Worked in a shop where someone has walked in, handed a bike to a mechanic, and walked out five minutes later having paid. If that's your expectation you should probably look in the mirror. I HAVE seen mechanics work overtime/after close to fix bikes for customers who are happy to leave them and have legitimate problems, to get them back on the road.

Like the others have said, when you have 150 of these 5 minute jobs, you have to draw a line somewhere. Our workshop booking system is currently booked at 300% of capacity for the current week - it has been that way since around April last year. Our shop has space for around 250 repairs and has been overflowing since April as well. Our lead time to book repairs is around 3 weeks, so your five minute job is pushing back the repair of someone who booked their bike in for service weeks ago and has been waiting. Routinely pushing back customers who have been waiting is (CAPS LOCK) BAD BUSINESS PRACTICE. Managing expectations is part of our job, and telling someone they may have to leave their bike and we'll try and squeeze it in rather than doing it on the spot is quite often the best we can do, and we'll be tripping over your bike till it's done because we don't have any more storage space.

On an unrelated note, we can also spot problem customers a mile away. It's just experience in dealing with the public.If you are having problems with every shop in town, it might not be the bike shops' fault. I'm in Australia, where robust verbal exchanges are expected, so ymmv, but maybe check the attitude during a pandemic and realise that having to wait for your bikes to be repaired may not be the most serious thing people have to deal with.
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Old 02-11-21, 08:29 AM
  #79  
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I buy the brands of bikes my local lbs sells, get clothing and electronics from them, and bring my bikes in for all service other than flats. They have spent lots of time helping my get the right bike, charge fair prices and look after my service needs promptly, even when busy. They are involved in the sport through local event sponsorship and leading organized Saturday rides and I participate in both.

I value their existence and they value my business.

It’s better having a good lbs than a vacant store.
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Old 02-11-21, 08:40 AM
  #80  
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The shop I used to almost exclusively use closed down a few years ago. It was a full-service shop, retail/repair/fitting. Since then, two of those involved in the shop have opened up a new venture that did away with the retail portion of it, It really takes the expectation that every single possible part will be in stock, especially during the pandemic. They have customer bikes crammed into every possible space for tune-up/repair; they're just incredibly busy. But they do good work and I'll pay whatever price they ask for a job. If I'm going into the shop it's because it's for a job that a typical home mechanic won't have the tools for. A couple of weeks ago it was to cut down a steerer tube and seat a crown race.
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Old 02-11-21, 10:28 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Minion1 View Post
I've been a shop rat for 20 years and I might add a couple of points:

A 3/5 minute job doesn't exist. In no shop I've ever worked in has a job taken 3 minutes. It takes longer than that to get a name, phone number, bike type and issue, entering the bike into a booking system, and checking for parts. That's not even the mechanic touching the bike, that is someone like me booking the job in. I have NEVER Worked in a shop where someone has walked in, handed a bike to a mechanic, and walked out five minutes later having paid. If that's your expectation you should probably look in the mirror. I HAVE seen mechanics work overtime/after close to fix bikes for customers who are happy to leave them and have legitimate problems, to get them back on the road.

Like the others have said, when you have 150 of these 5 minute jobs, you have to draw a line somewhere. Our workshop booking system is currently booked at 300% of capacity for the current week - it has been that way since around April last year. Our shop has space for around 250 repairs and has been overflowing since April as well. Our lead time to book repairs is around 3 weeks, so your five minute job is pushing back the repair of someone who booked their bike in for service weeks ago and has been waiting. Routinely pushing back customers who have been waiting is (CAPS LOCK) BAD BUSINESS PRACTICE. Managing expectations is part of our job, and telling someone they may have to leave their bike and we'll try and squeeze it in rather than doing it on the spot is quite often the best we can do, and we'll be tripping over your bike till it's done because we don't have any more storage space.

On an unrelated note, we can also spot problem customers a mile away. It's just experience in dealing with the public.If you are having problems with every shop in town, it might not be the bike shops' fault. I'm in Australia, where robust verbal exchanges are expected, so ymmv, but maybe check the attitude during a pandemic and realise that having to wait for your bikes to be repaired may not be the most serious thing people have to deal with.
Iím curious- if you book a repair 3 weeks out (say for a tune up) does the customer have to leave their bike for 3 days or can they drop in the AM and pick up that night.

IMO if people are making appointments 3 weeks out for a 3 hour job, they shouldnít be without a bike for three days or more which is the case with every shop near me.
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Old 02-11-21, 09:51 PM
  #82  
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Drop off AM pick up PM is usually ok, we just pad it out on the phone in case people have trouble juggling life on that particular day. 3 days is usually turnaround if we need to order parts as well. If we can get them.
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Old 02-12-21, 09:08 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09 View Post
Iím curious- if you book a repair 3 weeks out (say for a tune up) does the customer have to leave their bike for 3 days or can they drop in the AM and pick up that night.

IMO if people are making appointments 3 weeks out for a 3 hour job, they shouldnít be without a bike for three days or more which is the case with every shop near me.
I should do this more often but last year was a little too off the hook. In reality most repairs that came in last year were because the bike was un-rideable so not having it was not exactly causing most customers any additional lost time.

If an enthusiast (read as: anyone posting to forum about bikes) called in and asked about lead time I could usually size them up quickly on the phone and work out an appointment. "If you drop it off early morning on Thursday I can get it back to you that night or Friday night. I'll call you as soon as I know if there needs to be any parts we don't have."

I'm in a new location this year with much less foot traffic which will allow me to concentrate on appointments and service so I might experiment with some more ideas. Spent a bit of the morning looking into appointment booking
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Old 02-12-21, 09:17 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I should do this more often but last year was a little too off the hook. In reality most repairs that came in last year were because the bike was un-rideable so not having it was not exactly causing most customers any additional lost time.

If an enthusiast (read as: anyone posting to forum about bikes) called in and asked about lead time I could usually size them up quickly on the phone and work out an appointment. "If you drop it off early morning on Thursday I can get it back to you that night or Friday night. I'll call you as soon as I know if there needs to be any parts we don't have."

I'm in a new location this year with much less foot traffic which will allow me to concentrate on appointments and service so I might experiment with some more ideas. Spent a bit of the morning looking into appointment booking

This is how it should work. A shop shouldnít need to hold my bike for 7 days for a tune up after I already made an appointment. (This has actually happened to me). I would prefer to use an LBS, but just canít justify it, which is why I use Velofix.
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Old 02-12-21, 09:36 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I'm in a new location this year with much less foot traffic which will allow me to concentrate on appointments and service so I might experiment with some more ideas. Spent a bit of the morning looking into appointment booking
Does your shop have a storefront or is it at the same address as the Psimet wheels building? You're (somewhat) in my area.
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Old 02-12-21, 09:43 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09 View Post
This is how it should work. A shop shouldnít need to hold my bike for 7 days for a tune up after I already made an appointment. (This has actually happened to me). I would prefer to use an LBS, but just canít justify it, which is why I use Velofix.
Meh - if it works for you then it works for you. You have to remember the overwhelmingly vast majority of people who ride are not enthusiasts. The shop is usually filled with bikes from people who dug them out for the first time in years. The industry forums are filled with shops exchanging ideas on handling a lot of this but it the ones who do the best can set and maintain appointments and the ones who refuse to jump anyone in the queue.

The future will be more towards appointments. The bigger problem anymore is parts. It's going to be lightyears worse this year than it was last year. Chris King is already telling us 100 days on any part and it's February and they make their own stuff (...and for the record they said 2 month on an order I placed in September. I just got it 2 weeks ago). I can set as many appointments as I want but if they need a part then - it's going to be a while. They're buying it retail online from some warehouse that bought everything out from underneath us small guys (we don't care as long as it's the right part), or they're waiting. At that point appointments don't really matter.

I;ve got a nice little SWorks SL6(?) frame a buddy bought on clearance last year. He was willing to plunk down $$$$ on a group and wanted to go through me. Was surprised I "didn't seem to want to help him". I then marched him over to my computer to show him exactly what was going on. I highly encouraged him to just buy online from anyone who listed it but to make sure they actually had the parts in stock first. He's still waiting - it's been like 3-4 months.
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Old 02-12-21, 09:44 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy View Post
Does your shop have a storefront or is it at the same address as the Psimet wheels building? You're (somewhat) in my area.
We've always had a storefront. I bought out an existing shop about 6 years ago. We JUST moved to a new location about a month ago. PSIMET Wheels, Enzo's ButtonHole Chamois Cream, and the PSIMET shop are all the same thing in the same location. Service shop is the front end. Swing by anytime.
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Old 02-12-21, 10:22 AM
  #88  
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Taking into account all the chaos and uncertainty heaped upon us by Covid, lockdowns, loss of employment or income... I try not to judge people too much whether it be at the LBS, market or drugstore. I think we're all doing the best we can on a case by case (person my person) basis. I try as hard as possible to put myself in the other person's shoes.
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Old 02-12-21, 10:27 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
The bigger problem anymore is parts. It's going to be lightyears worse this year than it was last year.
This more than anything. I have a cousin who owned and ran a bike shop for ~30 years. Past tense because he closed up shop last year, citing the difficulty in getting parts, both for retail and repair, as a major factor in his decision.
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Old 02-12-21, 10:45 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Andy Somnifac View Post
This more than anything. I have a cousin who owned and ran a bike shop for ~30 years. Past tense because he closed up shop last year, citing the difficulty in getting parts, both for retail and repair, as a major factor in his decision.
Reps have been telling me most owners that have been in the business for a long period of time paid off all their debts last year and are just closing instead of fighting and leveraging themselves another year. It's never an easy industry and one "windfall" year out of 20 doesn't bode well for the future.

For those that just don't think about this stuff let me let you know know - pricing is already going up for this year. Everything will cost more. Availability will be lower than it was even at the worst last year (absolutely nothing has changed over the winter and in many cases it has gotten worse). You will pay and that's only if you can find it. If you care a lot about that then take the time to stock up now when you see your parts available. Tires, Pads, Chains, etc.
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Old 02-12-21, 10:51 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
For those that just don't think about this stuff let me let you know know - pricing is already going up for this year. Everything will cost more. Availability will be lower than it was even at the worst last year (absolutely nothing has changed over the winter and in many cases it has gotten worse). You will pay and that's only if you can find it. If you care a lot about that then take the time to stock up now when you see your parts available. Tires, Pads, Chains, etc.
I think this holds true for almost anything. Fortunately I have all the consumables I need and I'm able to wrench most things myself. I more than expect to be paying more for bike parts almost everywhere from now on.
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Old 02-12-21, 11:34 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Meh - if it works for you then it works for you. You have to remember the overwhelmingly vast majority of people who ride are not enthusiasts. The shop is usually filled with bikes from people who dug them out for the first time in years. The industry forums are filled with shops exchanging ideas on handling a lot of this but it the ones who do the best can set and maintain appointments and the ones who refuse to jump anyone in the queue.

The future will be more towards appointments. The bigger problem anymore is parts. It's going to be lightyears worse this year than it was last year. Chris King is already telling us 100 days on any part and it's February and they make their own stuff (...and for the record they said 2 month on an order I placed in September. I just got it 2 weeks ago). I can set as many appointments as I want but if they need a part then - it's going to be a while. They're buying it retail online from some warehouse that bought everything out from underneath us small guys (we don't care as long as it's the right part), or they're waiting. At that point appointments don't really matter.

I;ve got a nice little SWorks SL6(?) frame a buddy bought on clearance last year. He was willing to plunk down $$$$ on a group and wanted to go through me. Was surprised I "didn't seem to want to help him". I then marched him over to my computer to show him exactly what was going on. I highly encouraged him to just buy online from anyone who listed it but to make sure they actually had the parts in stock first. He's still waiting - it's been like 3-4 months.
Itís like this in a lot of industries. I put a deposit down for a fence in July and the company still hasnít received the panels. First it was 8 weeks, then 12, then 16...

They really just donít know, but I need the fence so Iíll wait. This is for vinyl, I heard getting a wood fence is even worse because Home Depot and Loweís bought up all of the mill stock at the start of the pandemic.
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Old 02-12-21, 01:06 PM
  #93  
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Just want to say, to no one in particular, that I love my LBS. It's well run and everyone is friendly. They make appointments and tell you how long you will (and then might) have to wait to get it back, depending on parts. I tell them in advance what I think it's going to need, to give us both a heads up about the extent of the possible. When I get the bike back, it's always perfect, better than I can do myself, and I've been messing with building and tuning road bikes since 1963 - which makes perfect sense. It's volume, like any training, which also helps them know what part will best suit what use. They care, seems to be in their DNA. I've bad experiences with other, larger shops. Maybe they push their mechanics too hard.
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Old 02-12-21, 02:36 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
For those that just don't think about this stuff let me let you know know - pricing is already going up for this year. Everything will cost more. Availability will be lower than it was even at the worst last year (absolutely nothing has changed over the winter and in many cases it has gotten worse). You will pay and that's only if you can find it. If you care a lot about that then take the time to stock up now when you see your parts available. Tires, Pads, Chains, etc.
I took delivery of a new gravel bike yesterday (from my LBS) and the MSRP has gone up between when I ordered it in mid-January by $100
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Old 02-13-21, 06:22 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09 View Post
I took delivery of a new gravel bike yesterday (from my LBS) and the MSRP has gone up between when I ordered it in mid-January by $100
The increase of $100 provides little clue without knowing what the original prices was, $100 increase on a $1000 bike, or $100 increase on a $4000 bike is a very different thing. How much was the original MSRP?
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Old 02-13-21, 06:54 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by ARider2 View Post
The increase of $100 provides little clue without knowing what the original prices was, $100 increase on a $1000 bike, or $100 increase on a $4000 bike is a very different thing. How much was the original MSRP?
A mid model year increase in MSRP is generally notable regardless and speaks to exactly what Psimet2001 was saying. Everything is getting more expensive, regardless of whether itís a 10% increase or 2.5%.

It was $2,500 FWIW
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Old 02-13-21, 08:51 AM
  #97  
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phrantic09, thanks for the info, a 2.5% increase does not seem like much on a $2,500 bike. However, I think we will see a similar $100 increase on MSRP on entry level bikes in the $500 to $800 range which will translate into increases over 10%. This will be an issue for LBS that took advanced deposits for bikes. The LBS that took an advanced deposit for a bike that had an MSRP of $650 may find the MSRP has now been raised to $750. Now the LBS must either absorb the price increase or pass some or all of it along to the customer who is waiting for their bike. This will be a tough place for the LBS to find themselves in.
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Old 02-15-21, 02:31 PM
  #98  
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Many dealers are getting up to 40% increases on wholesale prices. This will be passed along. Also most of the industry forums are showing that a lot of IBD are getting squeezed to death.... example: you place an order with the OEM in early booking. Say you take 200 bikes. You get the freight discount because you are over the "6" bikes they require for free freight. Then they don't have product so they ship bikes as they get them. They may only have 4 of the bikes they ordered show up so they ship them. Then they hit the dealer with the freight charge for each bike because they were "under the min" for the freight allowance. Freight is now coming down at $60/bike for most. Almost all dealers are in agreement that they will be adding a "destination/assembly" fee on to bike sales to pick up this extra cost.

Only going to get more fun.
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Old 02-15-21, 04:43 PM
  #99  
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ARider2 and Psimet2001 , also note that the dollar has lost value over the past year -- I think about 11% against the Euro and about 7.5% against the Yuan. That's gonna squeeze someone, though I don't know enough about the industry's contracting practices to know whether it's the retailers or the manufacturers.

Add in the extra costs imposed by Covid, the shipping costs Psimet outlned, and bike prices should be rising quite a bit. But I'm sure the industry will get blamed for price gouging, since many people lack critical thinking skills.
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Old 02-16-21, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Many dealers getting up to 40% increases on wholesale prices. This will be passed along. Also most of the industry forums are showing that a lot of IBD are getting squeezed to death.... example: you place an order with the OEM in early booking. Say you take 200 bikes. You get the freight discount because you are over the "6" bikes they require for free freight. Then they don't have product so they ship bikes as they get them. They may only have 4 of the bikes they ordered show up so they ship them. Then they hit the dealer with the freight charge for each bike because they were "under the min" for the freight allowance. Freight is now coming down at $60/bike for most. Almost all dealers are in agreement that they will be adding a "destination/assembly" fee on to bike sales to pick up this extra cost.

Only going to get more fun.
My take away from all of this: you are hoarding those 9170 shifters in your drawer
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