Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
Reload this Page >

Checkpoint “pulling” into turns

Notices
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Checkpoint “pulling” into turns

Old 02-22-21, 05:18 PM
  #1  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Checkpoint “pulling” into turns

Hi all — I recently got a Checkpoint SL7 that I really love. I’m coming to it from doing either exclusively road (where I run 28s on a Roubaix) or mountain biking (Top Fuel and Farley). I’ve never ridden a gravel bike for any extended period, and today I took it for ~25 miles and noticed two things that may or may not be related.

1) when I lean to turn, the bike “pulls” in the direction I’m going. Unless I counter-steer, the bike’s handlebars would go too far and I’d wreck. It was disorienting the first handful of times, but I’m getting the hang of it. Is this a characteristic of the bike/gravel bikes in general, or is this something that indicates an issue? I noticed this once on my Top Fuel when tire pressure was low, but otherwise have never experienced this before.

2) aggressively engaging the front brake vibrates the whole front fork/handlebars — so much so that my Garmin watch thought it detected an incident and texted my wife this morning on my commute I’d installed a PDW front fender last night, but it’s thru-axle so I can’t imagine I didn’t seat it properly or something — all seems well and the wheel is on tight enough.

Insights appreciated!

Cheers!

seinberg is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 05:42 PM
  #2  
franswa
Senior Member
 
franswa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,796
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked 251 Times in 105 Posts
Originally Posted by cubewheels
Either your handlebar looks tilted up excessively or tire pressure is incorrect or both.
Before reading your reply I thought to myself it could be the angle of The handlebars and maybe rotating them down would provide more consistent control on turns.

I might be inclined to unwrap, rotate the bars down, move shifters up and rewrap. That’s where I’d start.

Check that the headset and stem are tightened appropriately and gauge to see if front rotor is true or if all bolts are tightened to spec on the caliper and mount.

Last edited by franswa; 02-22-21 at 05:46 PM.
franswa is offline  
Likes For franswa:
Old 02-22-21, 05:42 PM
  #3  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Interesting - I did tilt the handlebar up (mostly b/c I prefer a slightly more upright position commuting). Is that something that could affect cornering though?

I converted it to tubeless and tire pressure is around 30 psi — definitely feels softer while riding, but I can’t really notice the tire deforming when there’s weight applied.
seinberg is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 05:45 PM
  #4  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by franswa
Before reading your reply I thought to myself it could be the angle of The handlebars and maybe rotating them down would provide more consistent control on turns.
Interesting. Makes sense - I can try rotating it down a bit. This wouldn’t affect braking though presumably, though, right?
seinberg is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 05:47 PM
  #5  
franswa
Senior Member
 
franswa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ATX
Posts: 1,796
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked 251 Times in 105 Posts
Originally Posted by seinberg
Interesting. Makes sense - I can try rotating it down a bit. This wouldn’t affect braking though presumably, though, right?
Edited my post to include more. If you rotate bars down and move shifters up it will effectively decrease the reach and might provide enough of an upright position.
franswa is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 06:29 PM
  #6  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by cubewheels
It could affect handling if there's too little weight over the front wheel

I also agree with franswa , something could be lose on the front wheel, brake, fork, headset, stem, etc. Something you may need to have checked with the bike still under warranty
Interesting about the weight on the front wheel! I’ll have to remember to pay attention to that.

As best I can tell, everything is tightened properly. I actually took the bike in this afternoon to a Trek shop to have them look at the brake/vibration thing, but it started raining and they couldn’t test it - policy about riding customer bikes in the rain. But they did say everything looked good after taking the wheel off and making sure things were torqued to spec and so on.

I’ll see what happens next time I’m out, and will try rotating the handlebars down a bit to see if that helps with the pulling into turns.

Thanks folks!
seinberg is offline  
Old 02-22-21, 07:12 PM
  #7  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,531

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10897 Post(s)
Liked 7,384 Times in 4,144 Posts
A disc fork can shudder because the headset is not properly tightened. It can also shudder because the disc rotor is not properly bedded in or because of uneven rotor wear. And if the brake caliper isnt properly tightened, that too will cause fork shudder(and eventual damage).

As for the handlebar setup- you do what you need to make the bike fit, but when the bars are pointing up to the sky like that it sorta makes drop bars pretty pointless since you cant easily brake from the drops. The ramps and hoods being set up flat with the ground allows for a rider to easily access the tops, ramps, hoods, hooks, and drops.
If you need the bars to be higher up and closer to you for a more upright riding position, maybe get a positive rise stem which will do both things. Or new bars with shorter reach can help too, plus there are bars with 20mm of rise from the center clamp to help get the bars up higher.

A bike that pulls into a turn more than you want could be due to a low tire. It could also be due to frame geometry you arent use to(though with you riding road and mtb, you already ride the extremes of geometry) since a gravel bike's trail is going to be higher than a road bike.
The larger a fork's trail, the more readily it will flop into a turn when you lean.

I dont know your bike's frame size, im guessing 54 or 56, but either way the Checkpoint's trail in those sizes is not high compared to many other offerings on the market right now. It would most likely be between your road and mtb.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 02-22-21, 07:25 PM
  #8  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
A disc fork can shudder because the headset is not properly tightened. It can also shudder because the disc rotor is not properly bedded in or because of uneven rotor wear. And if the brake caliper isnt properly tightened, that too will cause fork shudder(and eventual damage).

As for the handlebar setup- you do what you need to make the bike fit, but when the bars are pointing up to the sky like that it sorta makes drop bars pretty pointless since you cant easily brake from the drops. The ramps and hoods being set up flat with the ground allows for a rider to easily access the tops, ramps, hoods, hooks, and drops.
If you need the bars to be higher up and closer to you for a more upright riding position, maybe get a positive rise stem which will do both things. Or new bars with shorter reach can help too, plus there are bars with 20mm of rise from the center clamp to help get the bars up higher.

A bike that pulls into a turn more than you want could be due to a low tire. It could also be due to frame geometry you arent use to(though with you riding road and mtb, you already ride the extremes of geometry) since a gravel bike's trail is going to be higher than a road bike.
The larger a fork's trail, the more readily it will flop into a turn when you lean.

I dont know your bike's frame size, im guessing 54 or 56, but either way the Checkpoint's trail in those sizes is not high compared to many other offerings on the market right now. It would most likely be between your road and mtb.
Wow, thanks for this - lots of great information. Yep, the bike is a 54 (according to Trek, I’m right on the border between 54 and 56, but my road bike is a 54 so opted for that). It’s a good idea to look at the riser stem and drops - will for sure look into this, esp since the Roubaix road bike I normally ride has both and I don’t have the drops angled up nearly as high.
seinberg is offline  
Old 02-23-21, 09:03 AM
  #9  
tdilf
Full Member
 
tdilf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 294

Bikes: Niner RLT RDO, Trek Remedy 9.8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 70 Posts
I've had the front tire pulling into a turn - for me it was my front tire losing air.
tdilf is offline  
Likes For tdilf:
Old 02-23-21, 09:36 AM
  #10  
Chi_Z
Senior Member
 
Chi_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 507

Bikes: Niner RLT 9 RDO

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by seinberg
Wow, thanks for this - lots of great information. Yep, the bike is a 54 (according to Trek, I’m right on the border between 54 and 56, but my road bike is a 54 so opted for that). It’s a good idea to look at the riser stem and drops - will for sure look into this, esp since the Roubaix road bike I normally ride has both and I don’t have the drops angled up nearly as high.
should have sized up to 56 but change to a 80mm stem you bike will be 20mm higher and 5mm shorter, the bike will also be more stable and less toe overlap with fenders
Chi_Z is offline  
Old 02-23-21, 09:49 AM
  #11  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Chi_Z
should have sized up to 56 but change to a 80mm stem you bike will be 20mm higher and 5mm shorter, the bike will also be more stable and less toe overlap with fenders
I actually rode both of them but the 56 felt *way* too big - even the 54 was a bit of a stretch compared to the Roubaix. That said, it's still within the 30 day return window so if I find it's a big issue I can always go back.
seinberg is offline  
Old 02-23-21, 09:58 AM
  #12  
Chi_Z
Senior Member
 
Chi_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 507

Bikes: Niner RLT 9 RDO

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 50 Posts
93mm reach handlebar also does not help
Chi_Z is offline  
Old 02-23-21, 10:24 AM
  #13  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Chi_Z
93mm reach handlebar also does not help
Yep, after looking for a riser drop bar I noticed how long the reach is on the Bontrager bar. I might just replace the drops on the Trek with the same ones that are on my Roubaix - which are shallower and rise a bit. Looking into (safe) bike fit options in the area right now where I can actually work with an expert on all this stuff!
seinberg is offline  
Old 02-23-21, 02:08 PM
  #14  
Hit Factor
Senior Member
 
Hit Factor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: SW Michigan, U.S.A.
Posts: 77

Bikes: Trek Checkpoint SL 5 Disc, Trek Fuel Ex 5.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 25 Posts
You could try adjusting the horizontal sliding dropout, from the pic it looks like you have it all the way forward. Longer wheelbase = more stable.
Hit Factor is offline  
Old 02-23-21, 02:47 PM
  #15  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,762
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6881 Post(s)
Liked 10,869 Times in 4,634 Posts
Post #9 by mstateglfr covers all of the likely possibilities, I think.

You definitely should angle all those bars down. That is not the way to get shorter reach.
Koyote is offline  
Old 02-24-21, 10:19 PM
  #16  
shoota 
Senior Member
 
shoota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 8,128
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1871 Post(s)
Liked 689 Times in 467 Posts
Agree with mstateglfr, low tire pressure. Nice bike, that's a hell of a commuter.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
shoota is offline  
Likes For shoota:
Old 02-25-21, 02:10 PM
  #17  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
Post #9 by mstateglfr covers all of the likely possibilities, I think.

You definitely should angle all those bars down. That is not the way to get shorter reach.
Ha, thanks, yeah, I did angle them back down. I'll do a proper fit and probably replace bars & stem at some point once it's safer to do.

Originally Posted by shoota
Agree with mstateglfr, low tire pressure. Nice bike, that's a hell of a commuter.
Thanks! It's def used for commuting, but also pleasure

Originally Posted by Hit Factor
You could try adjusting the horizontal sliding dropout, from the pic it looks like you have it all the way forward. Longer wheelbase = more stable.
This is a good idea. I think the tire pressure is good, so this + perhaps just getting more used to the wider/knobbier tires on a road-ish bike.
seinberg is offline  
Old 03-02-21, 02:39 PM
  #18  
Hit Factor
Senior Member
 
Hit Factor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: SW Michigan, U.S.A.
Posts: 77

Bikes: Trek Checkpoint SL 5 Disc, Trek Fuel Ex 5.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by seinberg
1) when I lean to turn, the bike “pulls” in the direction I’m going.
I just changed out the OEM tires on My SL 5, same as your SL 7tires. With SCHWALBE Marathon Supreme HS 469 and I can unequivocally say, it is the OEM tire causing the pulling into the turns.

My average speed over the same completely unscientific 8 mile course was up more than 1 MPH to boot.
Hit Factor is offline  
Likes For Hit Factor:
Old 03-02-21, 02:49 PM
  #19  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Hit Factor
I just changed out the OEM tires on My SL 5, same as your SL 7tires. With SCHWALBE Marathon Supreme HS 469 and I can unequivocally say, it is the OEM tire causing the pulling into the turns.

My average speed over the same completely unscientific 8 mile course was up more than 1 MPH to boot.
Ah! Yes, thanks for this! I forgot to follow up to this thread actually. Two things helped in my case: running much higher tire pressures with the GR1s, though even then there was a bit of pulling. But secondly, as you mentioned, replacing the tire in the end made the problem completely go away. The SL7 got bad puncture on a commute a few days ago and had to be replaced (though running tubeless got me a couple miles to the shop before all the air was out). Since the front tire had to be replaced, I decided to swap to slicks (Bontrager R3 32s) and now the pulling is completely gone. So it was indeed the tire. The R3s are so far quite nice, and comically fast compared to the GR1s, though I do fear I'll end up with a puncture eventually on them as well. I'll have to give the Schwalbes a look when the time comes.

The other issue I mentioned upthread, about the vibration when heavily braking, just worked itself out -- it doesn't happen anymore. I think it must have been something on the rotor or unevenly worn pads or something that have now worked itself out.
seinberg is offline  
Old 03-02-21, 02:52 PM
  #20  
Hit Factor
Senior Member
 
Hit Factor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: SW Michigan, U.S.A.
Posts: 77

Bikes: Trek Checkpoint SL 5 Disc, Trek Fuel Ex 5.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 25 Posts
I should have mentioned I put on the 40mm SCHWALBE Marathon Supreme HS 469.
Hit Factor is offline  
Old 03-03-21, 01:06 PM
  #21  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
I don't think the issue issue of pulling into turns has to do with how high the bars are.

That said, if you want the bars higher or closer, I would just flip the stem up (or use a different one) instead of angling the bars up like that. But do whatever is most comfy and works.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 03-03-21, 01:47 PM
  #22  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta
I don't think the issue issue of pulling into turns has to do with how high the bars are.

That said, if you want the bars higher or closer, I would just flip the stem up (or use a different one) instead of angling the bars up like that. But do whatever is most comfy and works.
Thanks, yeah, pretty certain the pulling is from low tire pressure/knobbier GR1 tires. I was wondering about flipping the stem -- is that something that can be done safely? I've already put the bars down a bit, but I'm still stretched out a bit. Flipping the stem seems like an easy thing to try while waiting for it to be safe to do a real fit. I might give it a whirl if it's easy enough.
seinberg is offline  
Old 03-03-21, 01:48 PM
  #23  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
Originally Posted by seinberg
I was wondering about flipping the stem -- is that something that can be done safely? .
Yep. perfectly safe.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 03-03-21, 02:49 PM
  #24  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,531

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10897 Post(s)
Liked 7,384 Times in 4,144 Posts
Originally Posted by seinberg
Thanks, yeah, pretty certain the pulling is from low tire pressure/knobbier GR1 tires. I was wondering about flipping the stem -- is that something that can be done safely? I've already put the bars down a bit, but I'm still stretched out a bit. Flipping the stem seems like an easy thing to try while waiting for it to be safe to do a real fit. I might give it a whirl if it's easy enough.
I just looked at which model this is- for that price, its insane that the shop didnt have this fitting you properly before leaving. Just my opinion.

Anyways, your bike came with a +/- 7 degree stem that is 90mm long. If you switch to a 17 degree rise stem in 90mm length, you will raise everything 34mm and reduce reach by 15mm.
Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net
You can play around with stem comparison on this site. Your frame's head tube angle is 71.8 degrees.
Another option is a 35 degree stem which is a significant rise over what you currently have.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 03-03-21, 02:56 PM
  #25  
seinberg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NYC
Posts: 59

Bikes: Checkpoint SL7, Tarmac SL7, Trek Top Fuel, Trek Farley, Priority 600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I just looked at which model this is- for that price, its insane that the shop didnt have this fitting you properly before leaving. Just my opinion.

Anyways, your bike came with a +/- 7 degree stem that is 90mm long. If you switch to a 17 degree rise stem in 90mm length, you will raise everything 34mm and reduce reach by 15mm.
Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net
You can play around with stem comparison on this site. Your frame's head tube angle is 71.8 degrees.
Another option is a 35 degree stem which is a significant rise over what you currently have.
Trek in my area (NYC region) stopped doing real fittings during COVID. Plus, frankly, the guys selling the bike didn't *really* seem to know what they were doing - it was a brand new shop. I rode the bike a couple miles and it seemed more or less okay, figured I could tweak things. But after having some time with the bike I got more "in tune" with the bike and realized the fit wasn't quite right. That said, there are a ton of places where I can get a true fitting - I just want to wait until it's safer.

Great info on the angles. Now that I'm looking at my road bike, that's precisely what the shop I bought that from (pre-covid) did and it fits me perfectly. I'll give that a whirl. Is there anything special I need to do to flip it, or do I just loosen a bunch of nuts and flip and re-tighten? I guess I could also bring it to a Trek shop if it's any more complicated than that or I need special tools beyond allen/torx/torque wrench
seinberg is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.