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Enigma bikes: my tale of woe

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Enigma bikes: my tale of woe

Old 05-20-21, 06:19 AM
  #26  
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I wonder if Enigma subscribe to the "All publicity is good" theory? They are getting plenty, as this story has been posted everywhere imaginable. Enjoy shopping for the new bike!
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Old 05-20-21, 06:48 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
I wonder if Enigma subscribe to the "All publicity is good" theory? They are getting plenty, as this story has been posted everywhere imaginable. Enjoy shopping for the new bike!
I think only a grovelling apology and replacement frame would have possibly achieved that. I doubt anyone is going to read this story and get excited about ordering one of these frames!
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Old 05-20-21, 06:57 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Litespeed make some nice frames. I even have one.
But they can crack too.
Nothing is exempt.
absolutely - but I think this is an instance where volume and experience in Ti fabrication (and LS were working with Ti long before they started into bike frames) pays off. Currently daily-ing a 21-year-old Litespeed with >60,000 miles
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Old 05-20-21, 07:19 AM
  #29  
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Enigma

Whilst we won’t comment on individual cases we would like to re-iterate our position on warranty to original owners. If within the warranty period or lifespan of one of our frames we see evidence of manufacturing or material defects that has then caused a failure, we will undertake a repair or offer a replacement. It is important to realise that the expected life of a product is not always a quantifiable thing. If a frame has had an especially tough life, been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced. In these circumstances we will extend an offer under our crash replacement schemeand in certain cases we will go beyond this. We pride ourselves on our customer service and stand by our products. Full terms and conditions can be found on our website.
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Old 05-20-21, 07:38 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Enigma Bikes View Post
Whilst we won’t comment on individual cases we would like to re-iterate our position on warranty to original owners. If within the warranty period or lifespan of one of our frames we see evidence of manufacturing or material defects that has then caused a failure, we will undertake a repair or offer a replacement. It is important to realise that the expected life of a product is not always a quantifiable thing. If a frame has had an especially tough life, been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced. In these circumstances we will extend an offer under our crash replacement schemeand in certain cases we will go beyond this. We pride ourselves on our customer service and stand by our products. Full terms and conditions can be found on our website.
Thanks for popping in. It's not often a company rep dares venture into an online discussion forum.

Honestly, the best solution is a private, civil discussion between you and the customer. I do hope a reasonable compromise can be agreed upon.
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Old 05-20-21, 09:00 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Enigma Bikes View Post
If a frame has had an especially tough life, been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced. In these circumstances we will extend an offer under our crash replacement schemeand in certain cases we will go beyond this.
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Old 05-20-21, 09:31 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Thanks for popping in. It's not often a company rep dares venture into an online discussion forum.
Honestly, the best solution is a private, civil discussion between you and the customer.
Well, I tried private, which was my first preference (though a case can also be made for sharing information I believe to be in the public interest). The record will show I've kept a civil tongue in my head. I also thank the poster upthread for popping in.

Whilst we won’t comment on individual cases
Standard opening boilerplate. Fair enough.

we would like to re-iterate our position on warranty to original owners.
Warranty in its current form…

If within the warranty period or lifespan of one of our frames we see evidence of manufacturing or material defects
So you'll be the ones judging your manufacturing prowess. Got it.

that has then caused a failure we will undertake a repair or offer a replacement.

It is important to realise that the expected life of a product is not always a quantifiable thing.
On this we can probably agree.

If a frame has had an especially tough life,
Here we go again. I realise you "wont comment on individual cases", but by commenting here, one may infer you are about to make implications about how I've treated my bike. Please do forgive me if that's an uncharitable reading.

been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced.
Goodness, just what do your other customers get up to with their bikes, I wonder? Do they use them as skydiving buddies? Ape Danny MacAskill and fail miserably? Hammer nails into boards with them? The mind boggles.

As for me, I rode seemingly endless loops (smaller with the pandemic of course) around my humble East Sussex home, taking great care not to crash or otherwise abuse it.

"Riding hard" is so subjective as to render the phrase almost meaningless, but I didn't do that, either. As one character witness has put it: "I know you to be a smooth, careful, rider. Me? I'm a large, heavy, clumsy lump, prone to go through, even cause, potholes rather than around them. I'm not up for "it's broken because CLEARLY you've been using it" type discussion with a boutique owner. If I want a work of art to hang on the wall I know artists whose work is much cheaper.

In these circumstances we will extend an offer under our crash replacement scheme
Yes: again, your current scheme. In any case, there was no crash.

and in certain cases we will go beyond this.
That's nice. Current evidence to the contrary.

We pride ourselves on our customer service and stand by our products.
Back to boilerplate.

Full terms and conditions can be found on our website.
Always important to read the fine print.
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Old 05-20-21, 09:46 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
absolutely - but I think this is an instance where volume and experience in Ti fabrication (and LS were working with Ti long before they started into bike frames) pays off. Currently daily-ing a 21-year-old Litespeed with >60,000 miles
Google “Cracked Litespeed Bicycles” and let us know how all that experience and volume is working out, Litespeed like all manufacturers have issues from time to time. There is nothing mystical and artisanal about working with titanium. Like all popular frame materials, appropriate procedures should be followed and these procedures are well known.

Ranking skill and tooling requirements;
1. lugged steel is the simplest
2. TIG welded steel
3. titanium only because of the requirement of purging the tubes during welding
4. Filet brazed steel
5. aluminium which is almost impossible to produce in a small shop or home
6. then finally carbon which again is extremely difficult to work with and requires extensive skill and tooling

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 05-20-21 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 05-20-21, 09:54 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Google “Cracked Litespeed Bicycles” and let us know how that experience and volume is working out, Litespeed like all manufacturers have issues from time to time. There is nothing mystical and artisanal about working with titanium. Like all popular frame materials, appropriate procedures should be followed and these procedures are well known.
I don't believe I said the Litespeed frames never failed. I still stand by "experience and volume makes for a safer bet" when buying Ti. I don't need to Google squat to know that this approach is working out for me.
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Old 05-20-21, 10:10 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Enigma Bikes View Post
Whilst we won’t comment on individual cases we would like to re-iterate our position on warranty to original owners. If within the warranty period or lifespan of one of our frames we see evidence of manufacturing or material defects that has then caused a failure, we will undertake a repair or offer a replacement. It is important to realise that the expected life of a product is not always a quantifiable thing. If a frame has had an especially tough life, been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced. In these circumstances we will extend an offer under our crash replacement schemeand in certain cases we will go beyond this. We pride ourselves on our customer service and stand by our products. Full terms and conditions can be found on our website.
Manufacturers stepping into a forum is almost a no-win situation. The only way you could have won was to have stepped in and told the customer you had made a mistake, and were going to honor your lifetime warranty. As it was, you tended a little toward the blamey side, and that is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. My assessment is that you lost a little ground with your appearance here. Those pics don't lie.
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Old 05-20-21, 10:15 AM
  #36  
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And you only use this as a road bike? Not a stump jumper or you do BMX type stuff with it?
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Old 05-20-21, 10:19 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Enigma Bikes View Post
If [/color]a frame has had an especially tough life, been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced.
Apart from any obvious crash damage, I would have thought the default position here would be that 99.9% of buyers of a boutique high end ti road bike would be sensible non-racing road riders and this would be their pride and joy. This line sounds more applicable to a freeride full suss bike owned by a reckless 17 year old or some unloved daily commuting hack left outside to rot. It also states the bleeding obvious!
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Old 05-20-21, 10:48 AM
  #38  
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It's an interesting marketing strategy to come onto an online forum and imply that the damage seen in those photos was caused by hard/tough riding, and if/when that does happen to other buyers the warranty will not apply.
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Old 05-20-21, 12:06 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
It's an interesting marketing strategy to come onto an online forum and imply that the damage seen in those photos was caused by hard/tough riding, and if/when that does happen to other buyers the warranty will not apply.
Yes, it is somewhat of an enigma. Sorry but I couldn't resist that comment.
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Old 05-20-21, 12:17 PM
  #40  
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Talking about not seeing the forest for the trees. Enigma had an awesome opportunity to step-up and win over potential new customers by standing behind their product. Instead, they chose to be radioactive.
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Old 05-20-21, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
Yes, it is somewhat of an enigma. Sorry but I couldn't resist that comment.
It had to be done.
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Old 05-20-21, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Manufacturers stepping into a forum is almost a no-win situation. The only way you could have won was to have stepped in and told the customer you had made a mistake, and were going to honor your lifetime warranty. As it was, you tended a little toward the blamey side, and that is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. My assessment is that you lost a little ground with your appearance here. Those pics don't lie.
Well put, although I might say more than "a little ground."

The commitment to "doing the right thing" is qualified by so many subjectively-based "outs" that, to me, it is laughable.
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Old 05-20-21, 01:46 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Apart from any obvious crash damage, I would have thought the default position here would be that 99.9% of buyers of a boutique high end ti road bike would be sensible non-racing road riders and this would be their pride and joy.
I own an Engin. Count me in that 99.9%.
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Old 05-20-21, 03:12 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
... I would have thought the default position here would be that 99.9% of buyers of a boutique high end ti road bike would be sensible non-racing road riders and this would be their pride and joy ...
But, but, but there is abuse and there is abuse. Tuesday night's group ride had a nice flat straight of 6 miles with just a hint of a High Plains tail wind. Is a 230 pound old man riding 6 miles at 30MPH + use or abuse, or does it depend on who is making the decision?

I read that post by Enigma and it had so many weasel words in it I expected to have one jump out of my monitor. Do the right thing my tuchas.
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Old 05-20-21, 04:07 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
But, but, but there is abuse and there is abuse. Tuesday night's group ride had a nice flat straight of 6 miles with just a hint of a High Plains tail wind. Is a 230 pound old man riding 6 miles at 30MPH + use or abuse, or does it depend on who is making the decision?

I read that post by Enigma and it had so many weasel words in it I expected to have one jump out of my monitor. Do the right thing my tuchas.
Ha, ha, maybe their T&Cs have a 225 lb weight limit.
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Old 05-21-21, 01:08 AM
  #46  
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OP, you're apparently too fat for this sport.
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Old 05-21-21, 02:00 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
OP, you're apparently too fat for this sport.
I’ve gained a little weight during the pandemic, but can still fit into all my clothes. If I breathe in.



Full disclosure: that was taken 20 years ago. This one’s more recent:

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Old 05-21-21, 02:08 AM
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Look at those cobblestones!
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Old 05-21-21, 02:43 AM
  #49  
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Naw, that's just a wet road. Not smooth as glass, to be sure, but not too bad either. I am a connoisseur.
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Old 05-21-21, 05:26 AM
  #50  
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I recently bought a steel frameset from Mason, but had considered one of their Ti options, and was cross-shopping with Enigma. This thread is making me happy I stuck with the ol' Columbus-tubed 4130.

My other steel bike is 35 years old, and going strong. Though I have cracked one of those through the bottom bracket after bunny-hopping some pot holes. It was 32 years old.
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