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And you thought it would never happen

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

And you thought it would never happen

Old 05-27-21, 10:42 AM
  #1  
popeye
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And you thought it would never happen

Fly by wire brakes. Please no.
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-electronic-braking-patent
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Old 05-27-21, 11:01 AM
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That's odd. If you're going to do that, you might as well make it wireless/hoseless and put the receiver/reservoir in the caliper. I mean, I'm not ready to put my faith in that kind of product, but if you're going to do it...
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Old 05-27-21, 11:07 AM
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Next thing you know we'll have bikes with electric motors that provide pedaling assist. Probably be called something dumb like "eBikes."
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Old 05-27-21, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
That's odd. If you're going to do that, you might as well make it wireless/hoseless and put the receiver/reservoir in the caliper. I mean, I'm not ready to put my faith in that kind of product, but if you're going to do it...
I can see riding a bike where, if you forget to charge your battery, you can't change gears. But one where you can't stop? Nuh-uh.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I can see riding a bike where, if you forget to charge your battery, you can't change gears. But one where you can't stop? Nuh-uh.
Exactly. I'd want to see multiple redundancies and a good track record before I'd be an adopter.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Exactly. I'd want to see multiple redundancies and a good track record before I'd be an adopter.
It would have to lock the brakes BEFORE you start a ride if there's not sufficient charge.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:20 AM
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I knew they would happen. it is becoming more common in high end cars why not on bikes?

I agree yes would like to see some redundancies but if you can stop one of those fancy Mercedes Benzsszs why not something on a bike, make it lighter and maybe better feel.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
It would have to lock the brakes BEFORE you start a ride if there's not sufficient charge.
Why not during a ride?

Warning: low battery. Locking discs in 10... 9... 8...
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Old 05-27-21, 11:27 AM
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HOLD ON! If it's wireless it means the man is going to know when I'm braking! I will not have my braking tracked! sarcasm/off

It sure would be sweet having a bike with no visible cables. I'm in. It would really not be pleasant to get your e-brakes hacked, though.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I can see riding a bike where, if you forget to charge your battery, you can't change gears. But one where you can't stop? Nuh-uh.
I am curious about some of the details - it mentions a dynamo connection. It seems like you could do a standard that this only works if the bike has a dynamo for the calipers... but then why would you put the hardware in the levers?

This really leaves me with so many questions...
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Old 05-27-21, 11:42 AM
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Do you suppose Shimano sometime files patents on things they have no intention of pursuing, just to throw off the patent-watchers (the folks trying to divine what the next generation of Dura Ace will be)? They probably have enough money to file frivolous patents.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
I always thought that this would happen - once we had wireless shifting, the completely wireless cockpit was only a matter of time. This sounds like the first step in perfecting electronically actuated brakes - eventually we'll have wired brakes with/or without hydraulics (if we don't have to transmit braking force from the levers to the calipers, we don't really need hydraulics if we can actuate the pistons directly) and ultimately fully wireless. If we can operate fully electronic airliners, I think we can manage reliable electronic bicycles.

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Old 05-27-21, 11:47 AM
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bosch has come out with anti lock brakes for their e bike motor setup so it is changing.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
I always thought that this would happen - once we had wireless shifting, the completely wireless cockpit was only a matter of time. This sounds like the first step in perfecting electronically actuated brakes - eventually we'll have wired brakes with/or without hydraulics (if we don't have to transmit braking force from the levers to the calipers, we don't really need hydraulics) and ultimately fully wireless
but I wonder how you would deal with feel or modulation?
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Old 05-27-21, 11:49 AM
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KERS system FTW
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Old 05-27-21, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie View Post
but I wonder how you would deal with feel or modulation?
Haptic feedback is already a feature of many electronic controls. My brother flew fully fly-by-wire Airbuses - pretty sure the little joysticks has artificial "mechanical feedback" built in - I'll ask him.
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Old 05-27-21, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
Haptic feedback is already a feature of many electronic controls. My brother flew fully fly-by-wire Airbuses - pretty sure the little joysticks has artificial "mechanical feedback" built in - I'll ask him.
that would be interesting.
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Old 05-27-21, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
That looks like electric brake assist, not quite brake by wire.

A little hard to tell from the drawings.
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Old 05-27-21, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
Haptic feedback is already a feature of many electronic controls. My brother flew fully fly-by-wire Airbuses - pretty sure the little joysticks has artificial "mechanical feedback" built in - I'll ask him.
They don't.

I fly an Airbus and it's what I miss the most from a "normal" airplane. You lose the "feel."

Luckily (or sadly) we don't race Airbuses and don't need to take them to their limits. The lack of feel however, is a bit of a pain during gusty/crosswind landings though. The Boeings in this aspect are more "pilot friendly"

Along the lines of this thread, the Airbus also has electronic braking... so you do put your life in the hands of computer braking more than you'd think There are 2 redundancies built in. Again, because of lack of feel, if you lose the computer, it can be easy to lock up the brakes if you switch to manual (you have the other guy monitor the brake pressure indicator). The last option is the emergency/parking brake (which, ironically enough), is also electronically controlled.

Interestingly, FBW and autobraking wouldn't exist if they weren't the overall safer (and more efficient) option. However, again, the use case is what's key.

Maybe electronic assists for safer braking for the average cyclist, but manual for the competitive crowd?

I also watch a lot of Formula 1 racing and they have BBW but only for the rear brakes... the front brakes are conventional (and work as a backup).

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Old 05-27-21, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
HOLD ON! If it's wireless it means the man is going to know when I'm braking! I will not have my braking tracked! sarcasm/off

It sure would be sweet having a bike with no visible cables. I'm in. It would really not be pleasant to get your e-brakes hacked, though.
​​​​​​I can sell you a thing that'll activate someone else's brakes. How much is that race worth to you?
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Old 05-27-21, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
I agree yes would like to see some redundancies but if you can stop one of those fancy Mercedes Benzsszs why not something on a bike, make it lighter and maybe better feel.
Well, those big Mercedes Benz vehicles have a correspondingly big battery and an alternator to keep that battery charged while the engine is running, so there is considerably less risk of losing power to the brakes than on a bike with brakes controlled by a small battery with no charging mechanism on the bike.
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Old 05-27-21, 01:39 PM
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I said it would happen on about every thread that's come up with a similar subject. My idea was that a touch strip/pad running the length of the handlebar might eventually replace the levers in the future.

Last edited by seypat; 05-27-21 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 05-27-21, 02:02 PM
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Luddites! But seriously, at what point do they stop being bicycles (never, I guess, if they still have two wheels)—a relatively simple, low-tech, accessible human-powered machine—and become just another expensive, high-tech gizmo? To each their own, I suppose. I'll continue riding old junk.
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Old 05-27-21, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyace View Post
Luddites! But seriously, at what point do they stop being bicycles (never, I guess, if they still have two wheels)—a relatively simple, low-tech, accessible human-powered machine—and become just another expensive, high-tech gizmo? To each their own, I suppose. I'll continue riding old junk.
Tbh thats the problem I have with the whole ebike trend: they're motor bikes, not bicycles. If I wanted to ride a motor bike, I'd have taken up motorcycling. They're awesome for people with reduced mobility, but as a default option for everyone? No thanks.
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Old 05-27-21, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​I can sell you a thing that'll activate someone else's brakes. How much is that race worth to you?
That's why I'll be making little tin foil helmets for my disk brakes.
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