shelbyfv

You really should treat yourself to some decent equipment, just once so you'd have a clue what you are talking about. I can assure you that my current 8000 group is far more durable than the Huret Jubilee that came on my first "nicer" bike in the 1970's. Comparably second tier so I think a fair comparison. Also, manufacturers having a goal of making more money is hardly news or unique to our era. What are you smoking over there in Manila?

SoSmellyAir

Well, if that was the case, then that would not be a design flaw, right?

CliffordK

Planned obsolescence.

Jockey wheels with bushings will have the bushings outlast the teeth on the jockey wheels.

Jockey wheels without bushings will have the plastic spindle part of the wheels wear rapidly.

One can also get aluminum jockey wheels. I assume the teeth last a very long time, although it may depend on the thickness of the material. If they have roller bearings, that is likely where they'll fail. And, of course, they may be a little louder than the plastic ones.

Many of the high-end derailleurs may need the occasional maintenance, but can last tens, or or even hundreds of thousands of miles.

70sSanO

I guess one part of both these stories is that the user(s) takes no responsibility for maintaining their bike. Every component that has any movement needs to be inspected and maintained by lubricating and adjusting, where necessary.

In both these instances the posters have prided themselves in pushing their bikes far beyond most people, yet neither have talked about ever inspecting their components, much less periodically removing the derailleur pulley wheels and cleaning and lubing them.

If wear was the cause it doesn’t happen overnight or where it can’t be easily identified. Just having an expectation is not valid if that expectation exceeds a manufacturer’s warranty. Like it or not, after that it is on the user to maintain the components.

John

alo

Call it what you like. If the derailleur was a slightly different shape, there would not be anywhere for the chain to catch on, even with worn jockey wheels. I call it a design fault.

Now that this has happened, I will replace jockey wheels more often, so it is less likely to happen to me again.

alo

You are in North America. I am in S E Asia. They have factories here, where people work for very low wages. In these factories they make things which American companies buy, and sell for ten or twenty or thirty times what they sell for here.

Where you are, there is a bike shortage. Where I am there plenty for sale.

Where I am, most people are poor.

The shops here, sell what people here buy. They sell low priced parts, which don't have well known brand names. There are no Shimano derailleurs for sale here, apart from when you buy a complete bike. Ebay does not deliver here. Even if it did, I want to ride my bike tomorrow. I don't want to wait for a delivery. So you want me to order from an American company, where the price is twenty times what it is here, and they are not in stock anyway. When I can buy from where the American companies buy from, before they add transport cost, and profit.

If I had to replace a $2.25 derailleur every year (and I don't believe I will need to), do you think it would cause me financial stress? Do you think the work involved in changing it would be too difficult? Let's say something happens, and I do need to replace it. Let's say when that happens, the same derailleur is not in stock. Let's say next time I pay $10 for a derailleur. Do you think that would cause me financial stress, or the work involved in changing it would be too difficult?

I believe, If you could buy bike parts for the prices I buy them for here, you would.

There are many places in the world that are nothing like America.

70sSanO

I’m glad everything worked out for you.

John

shelbyfv

Nope. There are plenty of bottom feeder parts and BSOs available here in the US. They don't interest me, regardless of price. Of course I have no problem with you riding whatever you want. However, it's incorrect to assert these things are comparable in function or longevity. I'm moving along, seems we are beating a dead horse.

CliffordK

That is why people selling from Asia on Alibaba, AliExpress, E-Bay, or Amazon make a killing. Mark an item up 100%, and pay for boxing and shipping, and they still undercut what it is sold for in the USA.

The question I would ask, though, is whether you could purchase, say Deore, or similar derailleur lines for peanuts (keeping in mind your configuration likely needs 9-speed or less).

Here we can buy sub-$300 bicycles, but many of us choose not to.

veganbikes

Correct but the derailleur that comes on a bike can speak some good volumes on the quality of the bike.

La Brea Bike

Agree, highest probability is hanger is jacked. Just as one addition (sorry if someone else has mentioned this), I have seen similar (near) calamity when the derailleur fixing bolt came loose allowing enough slop to allow the chain into the wheel . It wasn't Shimano's issue, it was a bike manufacture issue in those cases. These were bikes that the consumer assembled themselves, and didn't confirm the torque.

alo

In most shops no, you can't buy them.

There are a few shops in the capital that sell higher end bikes, and they may sell them, but I don't know for sure, The only way would be to go to those shops and ask. I also don't know where most of those shops are. If they have them, I would expect they would be cheaper than in the US, but not real cheap.

Products where there is a lot of competition, sell cheap. Products with little competition, often have high profit margins.

People importing seriously to the US would go directly to the manufacturer, and buy huge quantities.

If you go to alibaba.com, there are some things you can purchase with minimum order size of 100 or 500. That is one way to get the price down. You would need to do your research, because you could also get scammed.

Most of those derailleurs are made in S E Asia, so theoretically you should be able to get them cheap somewhere. People in business know a lot of places you and I would never find.

Phil_gretz

Wait. You snapped the derailleur hanger in half. You replaced that too, right? Or did you use a claw hanger?

Also, are you the person who joined the original chain with using a pin vice a master link? Serious questions, and related to previous diagnostic posts

alo

The derailleur was broken in half. The part with the jockey wheels broke off the top half.

The hanger is part of the frame, and was not broken. The top half of the derailleur was still attached.

In this town, probably only three shops sell derailleurs. The first one I went to was out of stock. The second one I went to had them, so I bought two.

It has a claw hanger, but I modified it to attach it to the derailleur hanger. It is designed for a horizontal dropout, and my bike has a vertical dropout, so it would not fit without modification however I tried to attach it.

The old and new chains do not have a master links. It was just a matter of squeezing the pin in.

alo

To fit the derailleur with a claw hanger, to the frame hanger, I made the following modifications.

1. Remove bolt.



2. Grind out to enlarge.



3. Drill hole, and put bolt through here. The bolt goes in front of the derailleur hanger. It prevents the derailleur from rotating forward.



4. I also put a washer over the claw hanger.

hokiefyd 

Do you think it's possible the pin started to work itself back out of the bushing, and that's what caught the old derailleur's side plate?

alo

In my case it didn't. There were no pins sticking out. It was the leading edge of a link.

70sSanO

The truth is, in your case, it is a pure guess. Nothing more, nothing less.

The evidence is based on the fact that you didn’t carefully inspect the chain, derailleur cage, or pulleys the first time it happened earlier on the ride.

It is kind of moot anyway. No one, including you, really knows what happened.

John

alo

This could be prevented by a minor modification by derailleur manufacturers, where the chain enters the derailleur. With this modification, the chain could not catch on the derailleur.

1. Existing design.




2. Improved design.

alo

I originally posted this so others are aware it can happen.

We can't wait for derailleur manufacturers to modify their derailleurs. They may never do it.

I suggest everyone check their jockey wheels regularly. Check that everything is straight. Check that the chain cannot catch on the derailleur.

In future, I plan to replace my jockey wheels whenever they are worn. I would like to find a place which sells them in bulk. If I come across aluminum jockey wheels I may use them.

alo

This can never be proven. I will continue to believe what I believe. You may continue to believe what you believe.

I plan to make sure this never happens to me again.

I have shared this so others may also be aware of it, and prevent it from happening to them.

The aim is not to win the argument, it is to solve the problem, and ensure it never happens again.

alo

This happened at low speed. I just stopped quickly. I needed to replace parts in a place where they cost next to nothing. The main problem was the inconvenience.

Just imagine if this happened to someone going downhill at high speed.

For sure spokes would be bent.

Maybe spokes would be broken until the wheel collapsed, and the bike skidded down the road with a collapsed back wheel.

Maybe spokes would not be broken, but the back wheel would just lock up, and skid down the road at high speed.

Most likely the rider would come off the bike.

It is very likely that the rider would suffer injuries.

Imagine this happened in a first world country, let's say the US. Let's say the rider finished up with permanent disabilities as a result of the injuries. Lawyers would take on a case like this. It is very likely that the derailleur manufacturer and/or the bike manufacturer would pay out.

I don't want anything like this to happen. I have shared this so people are aware of it, and can prevent it.

alo

Shimano Tourney, very likely to be copies (maybe not genuine Shimano), are US$3.75. These are, no doubt, the cheapest Shimano derailleurs made. These are not the same as the one that broke. With these, the top jockey wheel is not replaceable, as the rivet which also forms the pivot goes through it. But at that price, replacing the derailleur when the jockey wheels are worn, will not cause financial stress.

I am not planning to go to the capital anytime soon. But if I do go in the future, and have time, I may check out higher quality derailleurs of any kind. Also jockey wheels. If they are not too expensive, I may buy some.