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Settle down Ace, it's not a race. (group ride practices)

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Settle down Ace, it's not a race. (group ride practices)

Old 06-14-21, 02:11 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
We wonder why motorists hate us.
Oh don't be a fuddy duddy. You think if we all just rode at 8mph and happily waved at all the *******s in their brodozers that they would all of the sudden be nice to us?

Stop with the the condescending lectures towards your fellow cyclists. It's annoying.

Drivers kill 30,000 of each other EVERY YEAR....they aren't benevolent enlightened beings cruising the highway singing "Be Happy". Hell, most drivers don't follow their own rules of the road to a "T". Mother Theresa's out in her Cutlass enjoying the commute with thousands of other like-minded well wishers but all of the sudden some MAMIL and his Dentist friends run through a stop sign on their Sir-Velo during the local hammerfest and THEN (according to lectures and scolds) our betters in automobiles become enraged and want to ram us off the road? Please.

They already hate us.

Ford F350 Driver: "I'm out hunting bike commuters today!!!" "LOL, gonna bag me a half dozen" "I'm rolling coal on all these little soy boys!"

Rick on his Aethos: Slows down, signals his intentions. Wait's at a stop sign for a 12 count, and rolls onto the sidewalk so as to not annoy his betters.

Ford F350 Driver: "Did you SEE THAT!?" "Well, I never...." "Next cyclist I see I'm gonna strike up a conversation and compliment him on his shapely calves". "While I'm at it I'll take the bus to work for the rest of my life...that cyclist was so amazing the way he followed the rules of the road that I so often ignore...but they really changed my worldview".


TTThhhhhhhhhbbbbbbbbbbbffffffffttttttttttttt

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Old 06-14-21, 02:34 PM
  #27  
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Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
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Old 06-14-21, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I dunno, but running stop signs does not seem very dangerous to me. I mean, who runs them with reckless disregard? We slow, check, and proceed. It seems like the safest, fastest, and most efficient way toget a group through a stop, too.
I was on a ride two weeks ago where two guys ran a stop sign. Luckily for them the driver was more aware than they were and slammed on the brakes.
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Old 06-14-21, 07:39 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
If it's a "drop ride" then all bets are off...ride as an individual not a group.
Drop or no-drop the riders in front have a degree of responsibility for the group behind. That includes avoiding potholes or road hazards and stopping when it's clear the group wouldn't be safe proceeding. Usually with a older established ride you'll have more senior riders out front who will set a good example and that seems to have been the case in this example. It it's a large open group it's hard to police everyone's behavior so there will always be a few wingnuts.
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Old 06-14-21, 10:19 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
The opinions on this one might have a broad range ;-)

Okay, the Tucker Ride in Atlanta is a long-standing open group ride. It's a 40-mile ride listed as "very fast paced training ride, 24 mph++. Terrain is hilly..." But remember - Atlanta... home to 6 million people. We have some cars down here. The ride goes east out of town, some rural(ish) roads, but still there are intersections. Atlanta.

The group blows 4-way stops - they're mostly treated as no-stops or green lights. First guys make sure no one's entering or about to enter, group flies. That mostly makes sense. I mean, 60 riders at 24 mph will be through that pretty quickly.

This Saturday as we approached a 4-way intersection (one lane each way with lights) at 22-24 mph, we lost the green, the yellow was stale and a car was waiting to go - from left, crossing our path. I was probably 4th or 5th back, two lines... I would've made it through on a fresh red, but before the car went. But the other 50+ riders would've been blowing a red - hopefully only pissing off the driver, not reshaping the passenger side of the car.

I was going to ease up, and yell "STOPPING" but fortunately someone else did first. We all stopped. A few riders in the back *****ed "AHHH COME ON!!!" "Jesus *$&@... " One guy even flew past the group, and turned into small parking lot and looped around - like he was going so damn fast he needed a runway to land. He was shaking his head. Seemed like the guy who tells his buddies "I did 40 miles at 25 mph today". No Ace, the group did 25 mph. You hid in the back and got mad when we didn't ride like @#%^heads and your average dropped by .1 mph.

So that's the question - when do you make the call? When do you decide to tell 60 hammerheads (a relative term) to stop. Oh sure, "when it's not safe" But come on - these rides left safe miles and several mph behind.
Note: "This is why I don't do group rides" doesn't count as an answer ;-)
I see this on group rides - the first guy sees a clear road and pulls out, but by guy #10, a car has appeared and the driver doesn’t know whether the riders are going to keep pulling out in front of him or wait (which they should do, as he has right of way). I imagine it drives motorists crazy - needlessly so. The leading rider has to remember that he’s towing a 30-yard “tail” behind him, and should make “go-no go” decisions on that basis. If the way isn’t clear for the whole group to cross, then stop and wait until it is.
This is why I’m selective about my group rides
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Old 06-14-21, 10:29 PM
  #31  
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Yeah group rides can be frustrating for this reason. Fortunately in San Diego we have Fiesta Island, a 4.1 mi loop with no stop signs. Also Zwift, don't have to stop there. Oh, and actual racing - with a closed course of course.

For the last few years I've been fit enough to be at the pointy end of any group ride or p/1/2 race, unless we're talking NRC with a capital "P" in that racing category. So I ride group rides the way that I do when I'm solo - I stop. Not worth it from a safety perspective, and more broadly, from a culture and acceptance perspective. Let's lead by example and create a better cycling world people!!!

And just like one does at any point except the last 200m of an actual race - you gotta save a little bit in the tank when hammering to be aware of your surroundings. Don't be stupid, make it count, ride safe and smart. Is my teammate on my wheel? Who has teammates in that attack? Is the light I'm about to encounter turning yellow? Stuff like that.
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Old 06-15-21, 05:45 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
We wonder why motorists hate us.
That is a sentiment, but almost all of us are also motorists. So we can see it from both sides where most drivers only see their side.

I think the driver hate goes far deeper and is nearly a psychological disorder. They hate exercise? They long for when they were a kid and could ride a bike?

Who knows, but many have a real issue IMO.
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Old 06-15-21, 06:12 AM
  #33  
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This Tucker ride is a weekly thing? It just sounds like a recipe for disaster as described. Open (meaning anyone with any skills or sense can show up), added to fact you average about 60 riders? If it was broken up at the start into groups of say 12 riders, with each group leaving 5 minutes after the previous, that would make more sense IMO.
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Old 06-15-21, 06:37 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
This Tucker ride is a weekly thing? It just sounds like a recipe for disaster as described. Open (meaning anyone with any skills or sense can show up), added to fact you average about 60 riders? If it was broken up at the start into groups of say 12 riders, with each group leaving 5 minutes after the previous, that would make more sense IMO.
Yeah - it's open. But the intensity is somewhat (somewhat) selective in that new riders would never hang and those without a lot of pack time will be squeezed to the back quickly. Crashes happen but they're not common. Atlanta's ride board describes the Tucker Ride as "VERY fast paced training ride, 24 mph++. Terrain is hilly, and distance is about 43-47 miles. This is where the big boys & girls and racers show up to play."

The route is very popular so if a rider is spit out the back or has a mechanical, there are plenty (!) of riders, groups, clubs, etc. out on the route at that time.
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Old 06-15-21, 07:23 AM
  #35  
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Lemmings on two wheels. The group pressure to stay with the lead group leads to poor judgment.

Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
I rode with a group for about 5 months. Saw exactly this so I stopped. I would cringe every time we approached an intersection. And there were the riders that said, you should have taken it. Nope, once the light hits red, I stop. Not getting killed over a hobby.
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Old 06-15-21, 08:06 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
The group pressure to stay with the lead group leads to poor judgment.
181 BPM and my legs told me to "let" the lead group (10-12 Cat1s/2s) go. ;-)

But yeah, the group mind can be a dangerous (or at least stupid) thing.
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Old 06-15-21, 09:05 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Yeah - it's open. But the intensity is somewhat (somewhat) selective in that new riders would never hang and those without a lot of pack time will be squeezed to the back quickly. Crashes happen but they're not common. Atlanta's ride board describes the Tucker Ride as "VERY fast paced training ride, 24 mph++. Terrain is hilly, and distance is about 43-47 miles. This is where the big boys & girls and racers show up to play."

The route is very popular so if a rider is spit out the back or has a mechanical, there are plenty (!) of riders, groups, clubs, etc. out on the route at that time.
So, it's not a single paceline then (with the talk about squeezing to the back) -- this group just takes the whole road? Do cars just have to sit behind this ride for however long necessary or is the route somewhere with multi lanes at least? Fascinating.
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Old 06-15-21, 09:17 AM
  #38  
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can't imagine riding w/ such a large group. when I rode w/ a buddy, we had a rule for the leader: "judge for two"
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Old 06-15-21, 10:16 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
So, it's not a single paceline then (with the talk about squeezing to the back) -- this group just takes the whole road? Do cars just have to sit behind this ride for however long necessary or is the route somewhere with multi lanes at least? Fascinating.
Most of the route is multi-lane (two each direction). There are a few sections with just one lane but A. these are short and B. the ride is early Saturday morning. This ride is sooo much less disruptive than those 6pm rides. But yeah - 2-5 abreast depending on pace. The front will single up as the pace lifts... the back is always 2-4 wide.
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Old 06-15-21, 10:52 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Greatestalltime View Post
That is a sentiment, but almost all of us are also motorists. So we can see it from both sides where most drivers only see their side.

I think the driver hate goes far deeper and is nearly a psychological disorder. They hate exercise? They long for when they were a kid and could ride a bike?

Who knows, but many have a real issue IMO.
Way too many drivers have way too much ego tied up in some kind of dominance game on the road. I mean, some drivers will shoot at cars that cut them off, so they lose, what, a few seconds? Very, very few, thankfully, but not zero. There's some weird thing where people feel anonymous in their cars and at the same time hugely empowered AND with their egos at stake.
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Old 06-15-21, 10:57 AM
  #41  
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As luck would have it, at this very moment another rider and I are talking about putting together a C&V 'pickup ride', where we just tell people where we'll be, where we're going, and when we're rolling out. Seems simple and all, till I started thinking about it a little more. There are places where I'm comfortable making a left turn with no stop sign or light, but I'm ONE rider. Trying that with even 4 people would give me the willies.
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Old 06-15-21, 11:00 AM
  #42  
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I've gone back to Wisconsin a few times for the Bone Ride, an early season fast group ride from Wauwatosa to Madison and back. Most of it is country lanes where three groups of 40 each can ride comfortably. Getting out of town on the Wauwatosa end, when the full group is together, is usually the only traffic challenge. In my experience, if the group is coming up on a red, it stops. If the riders on the front see green they stop in the intersection, wave politely to the cars, hold traffic until the group passes through and depart with a thank you. It is a once a year deal, organized by a local (national) legend. I would imagine that the same pattern on a weekly basis wouldn't fly.
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Old 06-15-21, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Way too many drivers have way too much ego tied up in some kind of dominance game on the road. I mean, some drivers will shoot at cars that cut them off, so they lose, what, a few seconds? Very, very few, thankfully, but not zero. There's some weird thing where people feel anonymous in their cars and at the same time hugely empowered AND with their egos at stake.
Yes. It’s the anonymity. You’re right.

Not ironically I had an idiot yell at me today while on a vacation ride on Hilton Head island. Told me to get on the bike path. My wife made me promise to stop cussing these people so I let it go.

This was some out of towner like me and had some nerve. What if I was a local and some jerk was coming here and telling me where to ride.
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Old 06-15-21, 12:22 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by tigat View Post
if the group is coming up on a red, it stops. If the riders on the front see green they stop in the intersection, wave politely to the cars, hold traffic until the group passes through and depart with a thank you...
I've seen this on rides - more casual rides. It works great. On these 24++ rides, that guy wouldn't get back on.
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Old 06-15-21, 12:27 PM
  #45  
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Had my first (and hopefully only) time getting hit by a car about a month ago. Haven't gotten back on the bike yet (bike is wrecked, back is damaged), but it's definitely made me rethink some of the ways I've ridden over the years (and I didn't run reds and pretty much did normal vehicular cycling stuff - leaning toward spending almost all my time on Zwift when I get back in the saddle). Blowing through lights and intersections is definitely not on my menu of good times.
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Old 06-15-21, 12:28 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
On these 24++ rides, that guy wouldn't get back on.
He would if his name is Tom Schuler I've seen him do it many times.
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Old 06-15-21, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
We wonder why motorists hate us.
Most people probably mildly annoyed.

Probably 90% of even the most avid cyclists have some close family member like their daughter and grandkids or wife and kids in a minivan somewhere. If their family was late or harassed they be pissed off, not seeing the hypocrisy.

All fun and games until someone gets run over or the sheriff’s wife and kids feel they were harassed.
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Old 06-15-21, 01:34 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
This Tucker ride is a weekly thing? It just sounds like a recipe for disaster as described. Open (meaning anyone with any skills or sense can show up), added to fact you average about 60 riders? If it was broken up at the start into groups of say 12 riders, with each group leaving 5 minutes after the previous, that would make more sense IMO.

I don't know about the OP's ride specifically, but around here there are a few large weekend rides that have just evolved organically over many years and don't really have any organization/leadership to pull off something like staggered start times. The only defined aspect of these rides is the start point/time, and a general route that sometimes varies depending on who's at the front. Riders tend to hop on or drop out along the way and rides that start with 20-30 riders can quickly double in size out on the road. The only ability to reduce the group size is to ride faster, so surges in pace are a frequent tactic to try to split the group up once underway, and this quickly becomes an escalating situation where the pace can get quite intense. There is usually a core group of hardcore regulars on local race teams who aren't shy about calling out bad behavior, but outside of someone setting up a Facebook page or Strava group, no one is really "in charge" of these rides.
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Old 06-15-21, 02:12 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Greatestalltime View Post
Yes. It’s the anonymity. You’re right.

Not ironically I had an idiot yell at me today while on a vacation ride on Hilton Head island. Told me to get on the bike path. My wife made me promise to stop cussing these people so I let it go.

This was some out of towner like me and had some nerve. What if I was a local and some jerk was coming here and telling me where to ride.
Drivers want us on the MUPs and sidewalks. MUP and sidewalk users want us on the roads.
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Old 06-15-21, 02:22 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
I don't know about the OP's ride specifically, but around here there are a few large weekend rides that have just evolved organically over many years and don't really have any organization/leadership to pull off something like staggered start times. The only defined aspect of these rides is the start point/time, and a general route that sometimes varies depending on who's at the front. Riders tend to hop on or drop out along the way and rides that start with 20-30 riders can quickly double in size out on the road. The only ability to reduce the group size is to ride faster, so surges in pace are a frequent tactic to try to split the group up once underway, and this quickly becomes an escalating situation where the pace can get quite intense. There is usually a core group of hardcore regulars on local race teams who aren't shy about calling out bad behavior, but outside of someone setting up a Facebook page or Strava group, no one is really "in charge" of these rides.
This exactly describes the group rides around here.
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