Severe Heat and Fatigue
#26
LR÷P=HR
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,119
Bikes: 1981 Holdsworth Special, 1993 C-dale MT3000 & 1996 F700CAD3, 2018 Cervelo R3 & 2022 R5, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 1,148 Times
in
664 Posts
+1 on Nuun Sport Electrolytes.
Rode 56miles on Saturday. Came home and drank 5qt bottles of water, 4 of which had Nuun in them
This was in addition to 3 regular bike bottles I drank while on the bike.
Rode again Sunday and Monday.
Those electrolytes will kick, in under an hour.
Barry
Rode 56miles on Saturday. Came home and drank 5qt bottles of water, 4 of which had Nuun in them
This was in addition to 3 regular bike bottles I drank while on the bike.
Rode again Sunday and Monday.
Those electrolytes will kick, in under an hour.
Barry
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
Alas I'm at the north end of my best distance route.
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,549
Bikes: yes
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1281 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
329 Posts
Lots of good tips here, I'll just add that replacing electrolytes is no joke--I've had two friends end up in the hospital with hypernatremia. Highly simplified explanation is that at a certain point straight water ends up flushing right through you and your cells can't replace the minerals they need.
Also I was always taught that people with prior heat injuries are more susceptible. During field exercises in the Army during hot weather we had to tie white ribbons around the arms of people who had prior heat injuries just in case something happened and the medics needed to know.
Also I was always taught that people with prior heat injuries are more susceptible. During field exercises in the Army during hot weather we had to tie white ribbons around the arms of people who had prior heat injuries just in case something happened and the medics needed to know.
Likes For ksryder:
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 38,963
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18269 Post(s)
Liked 15,185 Times
in
7,172 Posts
I rode across the country during the horrible summer of '99. Stayed in Fletcher Lake, Huntington and Monroeville plus one other place I cannot remember. It was God awful hot and humid. The forecast low in Fletcher Lake was 85. Hit 106 in Huntington. Got a motel room. A couple of mornings a few of us started riding while it was still dark to get as many miles in before the sun burned off the dense fog. Ten minutes on the bike and you felt like you were wearing a wet diaper. Heat finally broke the morning we left Monroeville (where we got to sleep in a air-conditioned community center) and entered Ohio.
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,955
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1357 Post(s)
Liked 1,655 Times
in
819 Posts
Likes For BobbyG:
#31
Shawn of the Dead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times
in
216 Posts
[QUOTE=ksryder;22133354
Also I was always taught that people with prior heat injuries are more susceptible. [/QUOTE]
This is true. I have always been pretty cautious in the heat but it really snuck up on me this time. It was not stifling until I turned around and headed home. I stopped with about 18 miles left, chugged some water and ate a Kind bar. Felt draggy then but wasn't really concerned until I finished and esp. later that evening after I had hydrated even more and eaten and should have been recovered.
Also I was always taught that people with prior heat injuries are more susceptible. [/QUOTE]
This is true. I have always been pretty cautious in the heat but it really snuck up on me this time. It was not stifling until I turned around and headed home. I stopped with about 18 miles left, chugged some water and ate a Kind bar. Felt draggy then but wasn't really concerned until I finished and esp. later that evening after I had hydrated even more and eaten and should have been recovered.
#32
Senior Member
Everyone's physiology is different. Keep drinking constantly. Your body needs a steady supply of water. Treat your body like a leaky car radiator. Unless you keep putting water back in, the engine will seize; but, before it seizes it starts to not function correctly.
Me? On long rides, like a ~50+ over rolling hills in the heat of the Southeast, I rely primarily on water and solid food (banana, energy bar, etc).
But it depends. If I think the ride will really drain the water from me (humidity over 80%), I'll carry 2 or 3 small packets of Gatorade in my jersey to mix with water on the ride. I take stock about 25 miles in. I know my body's requirements by now and start fueling BEFORE I need to. That way I generally avoid the ups and downs.
Me? On long rides, like a ~50+ over rolling hills in the heat of the Southeast, I rely primarily on water and solid food (banana, energy bar, etc).
But it depends. If I think the ride will really drain the water from me (humidity over 80%), I'll carry 2 or 3 small packets of Gatorade in my jersey to mix with water on the ride. I take stock about 25 miles in. I know my body's requirements by now and start fueling BEFORE I need to. That way I generally avoid the ups and downs.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,094 Times
in
1,311 Posts
Drinking constantly might not be a good idea. Taking supplemental electrolytes might be a good idea. I never use electrolyes because I don't need them.
https://www.outsideonline.com/190080...durance-sports
https://www.leadvilleraceseries.com/...uch-is-enough/
https://www.outsideonline.com/190080...durance-sports
https://www.leadvilleraceseries.com/...uch-is-enough/
#34
• —
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,109
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10069 Post(s)
Liked 5,753 Times
in
3,092 Posts
Drinking constantly might not be a good idea. Taking supplemental electrolytes might be a good idea. I never use electrolyes because I don't need them.
https://www.outsideonline.com/190080...durance-sports
https://www.leadvilleraceseries.com/...uch-is-enough/
https://www.outsideonline.com/190080...durance-sports
https://www.leadvilleraceseries.com/...uch-is-enough/
Likes For MoAlpha:
#35
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 6,958
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3298 Post(s)
Liked 3,387 Times
in
1,714 Posts
I got it once after Climb to Kaiser on a record hot day. It felt like the worst flu ever: headache, vomiting, unable to stand, unable even to hold my head up. Putting salt on my tongue was the fix (couldn't drink anything without vomiting).
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
Likes For terrymorse:
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,549
Bikes: yes
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1281 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
329 Posts
Actually, it's called hyponatremia -- hypo: low, natremia: sodium in the blood.
I got it once after Climb to Kaiser on a record hot day. It felt like the worst flu ever: headache, vomiting, unable to stand, unable even to hold my head up. Putting salt on my tongue was the fix (couldn't drink anything without vomiting).
I got it once after Climb to Kaiser on a record hot day. It felt like the worst flu ever: headache, vomiting, unable to stand, unable even to hold my head up. Putting salt on my tongue was the fix (couldn't drink anything without vomiting).
I've been fortunate to avoid heat injuries but for several years I participated in a well-known 200-mile gravel race and it took a lot of trial and error to dial in my hydration strategy for those >90 degree high humidity days in June in Kansas. Basically a combination of Skratch in my bottles and water in my hydration pack. (Or was it the other way around? I can't remember now.) I have to dilute the Skratch more than they recommend though because when it's hot and you're exhausted, sugar is not appealing.
#37
Newbie racer
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406
Bikes: Propel, red is faster
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,566 Times
in
973 Posts
What I can contribute:
-some folks need more salt/electrolyte than others, so the Nuun tablet or table salt in your drink mix can help
-sure, starting really early can help
-I tried this year to "heat adapt" as warmer weather rolled in on purpose. I didn't avoid it. Started easy with just a lunch hour spin as the lunch hour temps crept up over a month. Then increased time. Still mowed grass or went out to do outdoor chores when hotter. It seemed to help. You always hear about American football teams that play in the deep south or far north having "trouble" playing as well at away games in the opposite situations. Same for riding the bike.
-some folks need more salt/electrolyte than others, so the Nuun tablet or table salt in your drink mix can help
-sure, starting really early can help
-I tried this year to "heat adapt" as warmer weather rolled in on purpose. I didn't avoid it. Started easy with just a lunch hour spin as the lunch hour temps crept up over a month. Then increased time. Still mowed grass or went out to do outdoor chores when hotter. It seemed to help. You always hear about American football teams that play in the deep south or far north having "trouble" playing as well at away games in the opposite situations. Same for riding the bike.
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
Questionable to what degree.
Volume of fluid intake would be the main determination. If it's limited, water is fine. Beyond a certain rate plain water is bad news.
Yes, but these are not interchangeable.
Table salt, potato chips etc are just sodium chloride. Nuun has sodium, but even more potassium. Both are ultimately needed because they play complementary roles.
Eating a bag of chips can help, because sodium is the first one you miss. But I wouldn't ride all day sweating buckets of water in the heat with only junk food sodium and no replacement potassium.
When I'd spike gatorade powder to avoid buying nuun tablets, I used both table salt and the completely different and mildly offensive tasting potassium chloride salt replacement, each carefully weighed out and tipped into the bottle portions.
Nuun of course then goes on to market you all sorts of other additives, my personal decision for me was I could probably live without those as long as I was getting the sodium, potassium, and sugar.
If you didnt pack it from home, potassium turns out to be hard to find in a convenience store. Bananas, some fruit chips, maybe the odd dehydration packet sold as a hangover remedy. Sport drinks seem to get the sodium potassium balance wrong, probably so they taste better. Ensure shakes have around twice as much potassium as sodium which would nicely offset gatorade or junk food, but the rest of a six pack is a bit much to ride off with, so short of a group or emergency they're a buy before and bring one or two thing.
Volume of fluid intake would be the main determination. If it's limited, water is fine. Beyond a certain rate plain water is bad news.
so the Nuun tablet or table salt in your drink mix can help
Table salt, potato chips etc are just sodium chloride. Nuun has sodium, but even more potassium. Both are ultimately needed because they play complementary roles.
Eating a bag of chips can help, because sodium is the first one you miss. But I wouldn't ride all day sweating buckets of water in the heat with only junk food sodium and no replacement potassium.
When I'd spike gatorade powder to avoid buying nuun tablets, I used both table salt and the completely different and mildly offensive tasting potassium chloride salt replacement, each carefully weighed out and tipped into the bottle portions.
Nuun of course then goes on to market you all sorts of other additives, my personal decision for me was I could probably live without those as long as I was getting the sodium, potassium, and sugar.
If you didnt pack it from home, potassium turns out to be hard to find in a convenience store. Bananas, some fruit chips, maybe the odd dehydration packet sold as a hangover remedy. Sport drinks seem to get the sodium potassium balance wrong, probably so they taste better. Ensure shakes have around twice as much potassium as sodium which would nicely offset gatorade or junk food, but the rest of a six pack is a bit much to ride off with, so short of a group or emergency they're a buy before and bring one or two thing.
Last edited by UniChris; 07-08-21 at 12:58 PM.
#39
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,471
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10126 Post(s)
Liked 11,468 Times
in
5,875 Posts
Did anyone mention weighing yourself before and after a ride?
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#41
Senior Member
Did anyone mention weighing yourself before and after a ride?
#42
• —
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,109
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10069 Post(s)
Liked 5,753 Times
in
3,092 Posts
and a review which puts it in context: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1872071/
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
Their interpretation that fluid composition doesn't matter is interesting.
However I also note that they're using 3 liters and 4 hours as problem likelyhood thresholds; they're looking at marathons.
Thats the range where I used to be able to get away with water; it's things like 6 liters and 8 hours or 9 liters and 12 where it really starts to matter to me.
I don't start a ride with electrolytes in one bottle unless I'm planning to refill both during it. What a bunch of us keyed on with alarm was the report of five bottles of water.
However I also note that they're using 3 liters and 4 hours as problem likelyhood thresholds; they're looking at marathons.
Thats the range where I used to be able to get away with water; it's things like 6 liters and 8 hours or 9 liters and 12 where it really starts to matter to me.
I don't start a ride with electrolytes in one bottle unless I'm planning to refill both during it. What a bunch of us keyed on with alarm was the report of five bottles of water.
Last edited by UniChris; 07-08-21 at 01:28 PM.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 749
Bikes: 1969 Peugeot PX10, 1992 Della Santa, Linus Roadster 8, Biria 700C ST-8
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Liked 496 Times
in
314 Posts
You didn’t mention your age. When I was 18 I could ride all over the San Ramon valley with just a bottle and the occasional refill from a rural house. Or even better when I had the mom spray me off all over with the hose on Blackhawk rd. Now Old Blackhawk road.
But those days are gone. All those nice people are now hiding behind the gates of Blackhawk development. And it’s hotter and I am older. At 69 I really need to get out earlier and take it easier. And stay away from all the rich a—holes who have built houses on my prized rides. And who drive way to fast on my own street.
But those days are gone. All those nice people are now hiding behind the gates of Blackhawk development. And it’s hotter and I am older. At 69 I really need to get out earlier and take it easier. And stay away from all the rich a—holes who have built houses on my prized rides. And who drive way to fast on my own street.
Likes For Joe Bikerider:
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,094 Times
in
1,311 Posts
#47
• —
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,109
Bikes: Shmikes
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10069 Post(s)
Liked 5,753 Times
in
3,092 Posts
Their interpretation that fluid composition doesn't matter is interesting.
However I also note that they're using 3 liters and 4 hours as problem likelyhood thresholds; they're looking at marathons.
Thats the range where I used to be able to get away with water; it's things like 6 liters and 8 hours or 9 liters and 12 where it really starts to matter to me.
I don't start a ride with electrolytes in one bottle unless I'm planning to refill both during it.
However I also note that they're using 3 liters and 4 hours as problem likelyhood thresholds; they're looking at marathons.
Thats the range where I used to be able to get away with water; it's things like 6 liters and 8 hours or 9 liters and 12 where it really starts to matter to me.
I don't start a ride with electrolytes in one bottle unless I'm planning to refill both during it.
There is also another potentially important mechanism in athletic hyponatremia beside water intake. Non-osmotic release of anti-diuretic hormone in response to intravascular volume reduction during exercise puts the kidney into volume conservation mode, impairing the ability to offload fluid and worsening plasma dilution.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2435641/
Last edited by MoAlpha; 07-08-21 at 01:44 PM.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
I noticed after writing that, that your second added link mentioned more of a role for replacement in Ironman events.
#49
Happy banana slug
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,742
Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1515 Post(s)
Liked 1,506 Times
in
900 Posts
You could always go the other way; put on some lights and ride after sunset. It'll still be hot, but without the giant heat lamp beating down on you, and it'll cool off over time. Still carry some Nuun tablets, and use them. They're tasty; they also fizz, so keep the nipple on your water bottle open until it's done.
#50
Shawn of the Dead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times
in
216 Posts
You didn’t mention your age. When I was 18 I could ride all over the San Ramon valley with just a bottle and the occasional refill from a rural house. Or even better when I had the mom spray me off all over with the hose on Blackhawk rd. Now Old Blackhawk road.
But those days are gone. All those nice people are now hiding behind the gates of Blackhawk development. And it’s hotter and I am older. At 69 I really need to get out earlier and take it easier. And stay away from all the rich a—holes who have built houses on my prized rides. And who drive way to fast on my own street.
But those days are gone. All those nice people are now hiding behind the gates of Blackhawk development. And it’s hotter and I am older. At 69 I really need to get out earlier and take it easier. And stay away from all the rich a—holes who have built houses on my prized rides. And who drive way to fast on my own street.
I'm 51 next month .... and I try really hard to stay away from *******s rich or otherwise !!!