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C&V people indoors.....and the arms race rant.

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C&V people indoors.....and the arms race rant.

Old 12-03-20, 08:39 AM
  #1  
RobbieTunes
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C&V people indoors.....and the arms race rant.

This has been touched on, briefly, but my guess is that the C&V crowd rides a bit inside.
Just like cycling, it's a meandering journey...

I had a Magnadyne, back in the day. Those things were great sweat producers.
Then, an Airdyne, which wasn't really a trainer, but a workout nonetheless.
Then a set of rollers, which quickly became non-used rollers.
Metal drums, non-parabolic. Single-track on ice.

Then a couple different rear-wheel trainers, which, for the time, were OK. Watch a movie and ride.

Then a Feedback Sports portable set of rollers. Great for racing/crits/TT's. None of which I do.
Then a Sole B700. Great studio bike. Very hard to stack junk on in the garage.
Then, a ProForm TdF 5.0. Great idea. Huge waste of money: iFit sucked, connections bad.
So dependent on iFit that it's become a spin bike with no screen. Buttons and screen stopped working.
It was kind of "in between" developments, and is trapped in the iFit black hole. We'll cycle back to that.

Then a CompuTrainer in a bike shop. Pretty good, and I enjoyed the folks and the loud music.
Good money for the shop, and yes, it turned into hundreds of dollars of stuff from the shop (tubeless switchover).

Then, COVID.

Then, a long wait, and a Kickr Snap. A step up, definitely get a good fan and trainer tire.
As the Kickr/Zwift discrepancies became apparent (way off on some things), frustration.
Now I see the "direct drive" thing is all the rage. Not going up that escalator.
(My girlfriend most definitely will. She digs Zwift on Zoom and direct drive is the way for her.)

Then, Inside Ride E-Motion rollers, based on recommendations from nomadmax and speedevil .
They are pretty good, a slight learning curve, YouTube helps, and dangerous enough for a person who falls a lot.
Once Zwift, cadence, speed, HR are up on it, it's actually not bad. And we'll cycle back to that, too.

A software guru has now found a way to run the ProForm TdF 4.0 and 5.0 through Zwift, Sufferfest, TourRider, etc. Built-in cadence, power, speed. Automatic resistance and +/- 20% incline/decline, on a Di2 3x10 spin bike. I'm running an rhm saddle and my pedals, my fit. You can program in your bike's gearing, then ride it on Zwift. Quite possibly a game changer, for me, if it all comes together. It looks like the success rate is about 50%.

Back to the Inside Ride E-Motion rollers. Shallow learning curve. Day 1-20 minutes. Lathered, but fell.
Day 2 it was leaned up against the wall. Now, another look, as YouTube has shown me a few things.
1. A speed sensor, HR monitor, and cadence sensor will input it all to Zwift.
2. You can get a resistance unit now that communicates with Zwift, sort of.
3. You can attach a fan unit that runs off the front roller.
So now, the rollers are back to a more realistic ride, with the need to shift, and variable resistance.
It's still pretty inaccurate, but once you mentally adjust, it's consistent.
Still dangerous for the balance-challenged, and lo! there is now a flexible fork mount.

I've always hated indoor riding. I've always hated treadmills. But that is simply a challenge.
I'll be attacking the indoor riding on two fronts: The ProForm TdF 5.0 and the Inside Ride rollers.
Mainly, because the half-assed bird in the hand is still cheaper than buying bushes.

Right now, just the hack is out there, but If the ProForm people would get the software on board and dump iFit, they could really have a winner.
Many very expensive clothes racks could become smart trainers again. Dogs and cats. Zwift one day, Alp du Huez the next.
It's a more "millenial" workout, with the gadgetry and video game sheet they like. Kumbaya.

If the Inside Ride can get close, especially with resistance changes, it's a better workout.
Mainly because you are actually riding the bike. Indoors. And you have to keep riding.

I thought I was doing OK with the Inside Ride rollers. 15 minutes today, on Zwift, no falls.
Then a friend sent me a video of her friend on "real rollers." Juggling. Riding one-legged. No hands.
The humility.

The original "real" rollers? Still have them, and YouTube shows how to convert them to Inside Ride-type capability. Cool.

So, if you've meandered inside and tried stuff, share it. Too late to save me the dough, but interesting nonetheless.

Do you "settle," or search? "Make do," or innovate? Or just buy winter gear? (I've done that, too.).

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 12-18-20 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 12-03-20, 09:05 AM
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Back in the '90s when I was a lad, the parents wouldn't let me ride outdoors in the winter, so I learned to ride the rollers on my mom's Raleigh Pro, because I thought it would be more engaging and interesting than riding on a fan trainer, which was the other option. I was a kid, with nothing else to do, so I quickly mastered it, like kids do. It was super boring if I didn't have a good radio program on, and I couldn't read anything because I had to balance. At least on the fan trainer you could read. I remember Saturday evenings listening to Prairie Home Companion on my Panasonic radio turned all the way up so I could hear it over the rollers and a box fan I'd placed in front of me to keep myself cool. Those were the days. Two hour radio show to distract me from the mind numbing boredom - what a gift. But no matter how much I binge exercised, I couldn't lose my doughy figure. I was a weird kid.

I haven't ridden indoors since then. If it's snowy and cold, I'll cross country ski. If it's a mild winter, I'll ride outside all winter. Hopefully the corona shutdown doesn't get so serious as to prevent me from doing that. Every now and then I've had chances to ride rollers and I'll do it just to prove I still can. Good party trick. Sometimes I think about getting the rollers back. They are stored in Minnesota where I grew up. Nobody uses them. There is unlimited access to Prairie Home Companion reruns online. Should I relive my glory days? Or will it just be disappointing?
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Old 12-03-20, 09:11 AM
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I have rollers but it has been a long long time. But when I thought indoor training was fun, I considered building something like this and getting a cheap used trainer.


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Old 12-03-20, 09:37 AM
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I have a friend who rides a lot outside, but pretty much all year round does a daily Zwift ride indoors. He says that it's not cycling, really, but a form of exercise he likes to do. I've never liked indoor cycling much at all, and that includes my old Minoura wind trainer (so loud!) and some modern thing I have now that I should be able to hook up to various programs but haven't tried. I did do spin class about 10 years back to make it through a winter, but like @scarlson, I'll ride outside all year round unless it's really snowy and cold, but even then around here it'll warm up enough after a couple of days to make riding do-able.

BTW, Sam, I have a set of rollers a friend "gifted" me. I have no desire to learn to use them, so yours if you want 'em!
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Old 12-03-20, 09:44 AM
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I rode rollers for a long time. Then last year I retired and the. This pas summer sold the car a drove back a no forth to work. Used that money to by a Kickr bike. Ride it everyday now that the weather is cold and wet. Local club as rides on Zwift so everyone and talk and enjoy riding.
I ride Rouvy and Sufferfest. Rouvy for fun rides around the world and Sufferfest to get stronger in the winter.

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Old 12-03-20, 09:55 AM
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I used to ride a set of Weyless rollers that I bought in the 70's (a bit of C&V content), but they weren't all that exciting once you learned to not fall off.
Much later, I bought a mag trainer as a simpler way of slogging along indoors. Still pretty tedious, but I could watch videos and not risk falling off.

Since I was bike commuting, I just settled on riding outdoors. It's not exactly the answer Robbie was looking for, but it seems to work for me. At least it maintains riding skills and has a bit more variety than cranking out indoor miles on a mag trainer. There's also the adventure of fixing a flat tire when it is 8 degrees F out!! I keep a thin pair of gloves in the bag so I can have a bit of dexterity without having skin touch an aluminum rim.

Steve in Peoria

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Old 12-03-20, 10:10 AM
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I belong to a really nice gym chain. They were open 24/7/365 till the Rona 19er showed up. They have ICG IC7 bikes in their spin studio. Keiser M3 bikes as their stand alone bikes. Some of the instructors are Ironmen/women. I can hit one of those classes/bikes for a session, then another fitness class like Yoga. After that some core work, weights and swim some laps. Or run on a treadmill. Or start/end my runs in the parking lot and continue the workout after. Hit the sauna and hot tub then shower there and head home. The scenery is always good and I don't have to maintain any of the equipment/facilities.

But then the virus hit and put a damper on that. They are back open, but the only thing I am using currently is the pool. I guess I'll get some winter cycling clothes. It really doesn't get that cold here anyway.(Richmond VA) I can usually run outside through winter in shorts/12 inch socks/long sleeve jersey/jacket. As long as the ears, head and hands are covered, I'm good.

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Old 12-03-20, 10:15 AM
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I do have one of these at my business location. The wife used to ride it at home. I use it to set up/calibrate drivetrains and test out shifting.

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Old 12-03-20, 10:17 AM
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Iím on a Kickr Core using Zwift. I havenít committed to a subscription yet though, dealing with a bum back. Iím interested in picking up the Inside Ride E-Flex whenever itís released by those folks.




Minimal fan for a quick lunch ride.
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Old 12-03-20, 10:26 AM
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I use rollers. About 30-40 mins max. Tunes are required. Good tunes through loud speakers, ideally. No hands isnít hard once you remember to keep pedaling. And ride in a straight line. Itís a good habit anyway and if you arenít so great at it, rollers will teach you. I am still working on standing. Thatís a lot trickier. And juggling is out of the question, whether Iím on rollers or not.
I just installed a tv in the exercise space, so weíll see what happens when my eyes are focused elsewhere.
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Old 12-03-20, 10:53 AM
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I learned the hard way that watching movies with car chase scenes while riding rollers can cause crashes
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Old 12-03-20, 11:33 AM
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CV indoor trainer, built up a 86 Trek 400 Elance and put it on a Blackburn fluid trainer. No moving bikes and tires around, stays there year round.
Really canít stand to be on it more than half an hour, even though I replicated my most comfortable bike for the build.
I donít mind the cold, but not riding old steel during the salt season, they put it on heavy up here.
Tim

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Old 12-03-20, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
I use rollers. About 30-40 mins max. Tunes are required. Good tunes through loud speakers, ideally. No hands isnít hard once you remember to keep pedaling. And ride in a straight line. Itís a good habit anyway and if you arenít so great at it, rollers will teach you......
rollers are limited, but they really do teach you to ride in a straight line and minimize body motion! There are a few riding buddies who make weird movements in pacelines, and I tend to think that spending a winter on rollers would smooth them out quite a bit.
Riding fixed gear is similar, in the sense that it can help the rider develop some good habits & skills.
I wonder what other experiences provide opportunities to develop key riding skills?

Steve in Peoria
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Old 12-03-20, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
Since I was bike commuting, I just settled on riding outdoors. It's not exactly the answer Robbie was looking for, but it seems to work for me. At least it maintains riding skills and has a bit more variety than cranking out indoor miles on a mag trainer. There's also the adventure of fixing a flat tire when it is 8 degrees F out!!

You are a hardman and have my utmost respect; I stay indoors when the temps fall below 40

DD
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Old 12-03-20, 01:50 PM
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I have a 15-year-old Cycle-Ops fluid trainer I bought on Craigslist 10 years ago for $80. I have a 20+ year-old window fan to cool me. Closest to fancy I get is listening to mp3s from my phone to my Bose (a gift) wireless headphones. I like The Clash.

Truly uninspiring.
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Old 12-03-20, 02:03 PM
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I used the indoor trainer sparingly after I broke my arm in 2018, 20-30 minutes sometimes most days was the best I could muster, too lazy and not dedicated enough.

Also rode some at the gym to support Ms. merziac as well.

Was thinking about setting it up again but with Christmas looming there's no room for that nonsense.

I ride, mostly commute well into the 30's if its dry, high 30's - low 40's if its wet.
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Old 12-03-20, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I have a 15-year-old Cycle-Ops fluid trainer I bought on Craigslist 10 years ago for $80. I have a 20+ year-old window fan to cool me. Closest to fancy I get is listening to mp3s from my phone to my Bose (a gift) wireless headphones. I like The Clash.

Truly uninspiring.
Sandanista.
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Old 12-03-20, 04:16 PM
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Have been putting it off, but I'll be getting workouts with one of these this winter:

No videos. Music likely - heavy metal or classical.
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Old 12-03-20, 04:20 PM
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We've been talking about this in the Indoor & Stationary group and everyone has their preference one way or another. I've been Zwifting for 3+ years and I would rather be riding outside but the Canadian winters are long, cold and dark so an indoor option is good. I have a wheel on smart trainer with an older (2010) road bike with trainer wheel on it which works fine for me. This poor bike is chained in the basement and doesn't see the light of day (sometimes I feel sorry for it) so it's super easy to throw on shorts, shirt and start Zwifting.

I find it makes a big difference to utilize what they have to offer. If you want to improve something, be it sprinting, hill climbing, endurance, etc... then start up one of their training plans (all part of the subscription). If you like to get the competitive juices flowing then join a race and mash your a$$ off to try and win (but good luck!) or if you just want to move the legs then meander through one of the maps and enjoy the scenery.

The longest I've ridden was 1.5 hours and then I'd had enough. I was a complete ball of sweat and could barely grip my bars any longer without slipping off but what a work out.
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Old 12-03-20, 05:11 PM
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In college 44 years ago, one of the guys in the dorm (a die-hard racer and indoor crit rider) had a set of rollers that I'd borrow... His bike was a shorter wheelbase than mine, so my front wheel was somewhat over-center. I didn't want to touch the wheelbase adjustment since they were not mine. While it took some getting used to, if my pedal stroke was the least bit jerky or uneven it sent me crashing off the front. As a consequence, I developed a VERY smooth pedal stroke, and I could ride for 1/2 hour with ease, and sometimes up to an hour. I had to place a box fan in front of me, and have the bedroom window open (in winter!) or I made a puddle of sweat on the floor!

Fast forward ten years, and I've finally settled down and have a place of my own - so I bought my own set of rollers and TWO belt-driven squirrel-cage fans for resistance. I'd only use one normally, but if I wanted an extreme workout I'd put the belt of the second one as well... Yeah, the fans are bit noisy, but again I also had another fan blowing on my to try to help keep myself cool. Headphones are a wonderful thing, and I use the tempo of the music to keep 'pace'. Those cheap rollers lasted quite a while, but the PVC drums have gotten a bit warped and the bearings are getting rumbly so had quit using them for a few years... So last Spring I bought a 'better' set of rollers on seasonal closeout. These have turned aluminum drums - but still not parabolic -- I still want the challenge of riding a straight line. My old wind resistance units will have to be adapted to this set of rollers by making some new brackets, but that should not be a problem.

Those variable resistance magnetic trainers - meh. While it might be fun to use it for more realistic riding (simulated hills, etc), at my age (almost 63) I feel that as long as I'm still actively using my old-school rollers for the balance and smoothness, the gains in efficiency attained in the smooth pedal stroke by using the old rollers is enough of a workout!
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Old 12-03-20, 05:38 PM
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Among my more obvious character flaws is a very low boredom threshold. Much to the frustration of my wife I can't sit still to watch a movie that's more than an hour long. Neither chilling nor meditation are in my genetic makeup.

In the late seventies I had access to a set of Cinelli rollers at the shop where I worked. I embarked on a training program to ride them for 30 minutes every morning before work. To quote @steelbikeguy "...they weren't all that exciting once you learned to not fall off." My training plan went into the trash after two days.

Easy for me to say, I live in coastal California where I can ride year around if I'm willing to ride in the rain. (If God meant for us to stay home in the rain he wouldn't have given us ziplock bags to put our cell phones in.) If I had to deal with snow and ice I'd take up cross country skiing, curling, and snowball fighting before I'd think about riding a trainer.

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Old 12-03-20, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Sandanista.
I'm one of the few who likes that one. Something About England is one of my all-time favs. I'm embarrassed to say I don't go see the the Combat Rock tour because I thought they had sold out. What a tool.
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Old 12-03-20, 09:27 PM
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I tried to go with a modern trainer, the Saris H3. Wouldn't connect at all to my laptop via bluetooth and only partially connect to my smartphone. Saris has like no help at their website, there's no real owners manual, and customer service hours only while I'm at work. Reached out for help on another forum and got told things like, "blutooth on windows suck", "buy a tablet", "mine works great" etc, etc, Oh and join yet another facebook page where maybe they can help you make it work. I may be getting old but I didn't use to be an idiot when it came to getting things working. I also checked the supposed compatibility of it before I bought it. Got me so angry trying to get it going that I hit the booze and I'm not a drinker. Now maybe I am getting old and dumb, and maybe the multiple head injury induced dementia is starting for me but whatever. If a device drive me to drinking trying to get it to work the heck with it. I returned mine to Amazon. I'll happily stick to what I've done every winter and just ride outside when the roads are safe. On snowbound days it'll be the trainer, Screw the new tech!
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Old 12-03-20, 09:36 PM
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I use a Saris Fluid 2 dumb trainer, speed and cadence sensors, and appleTV for zwift.
Its a dumb trainer, but my zwift ftp is quite on point with the couple of ftp tests ive done with power meters. Its close enough that i haven't been tempted enough to drop $500 on a Kickr Snap...yet. And given the supposed short supply of smart trainers at the entry level, it looks like I'll keep my setup for another winter.

I like to do 8-13mi races on zwift. The competitiveness of setting in game short term goals helps keep me engaged and the 25-40min of hard riding is enough to be soaked in sweat but not too much to make it no longer fun.
I'll ride solo too, about every 3rd time I use Zwift. I've tried a couple group rides and honestly I just don't understand the appeal. Its the same as riding solo...only a bunch of in game characters are next to you. I guess thats appealing?...maybe?


My little corner of the basement. '88 Schwinn Premis frame with 5800 105 drivetrain.
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Old 12-03-20, 09:44 PM
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Ex Pres 
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I have an 80's Schwinn Magturbo that fits 126 OLD max wheels. None of that new tech.
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