Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Stuck BB-driveside cup in Ti frame

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Stuck BB-driveside cup in Ti frame

Old 07-19-21, 09:09 AM
  #1  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Stuck BB-driveside cup in Ti frame

A couple months ago, I got hit by a car and my bike got wrecked (my back got damaged too).

To replace the bike, I bought a bike frame that I thought was a great deal on eBay at the time. The frame was an Eddy Merckx Titanium EX (the fact that it's Ti may or may not play a role in the problem, I don't know).

The frame arrive in great shape with everything looking good, so I was excited to get started on the build. The frame came with a Shimano Octalink BB (I've never used them so I don't know if it is V1 or V2, but I think it was V1) installed.



I didn't want to use that (I have several Campagnolo cranksets in the parts bin and it was going to be a full Campagnolo build with parts from the bin), so I tried to remove it.

The non-driveside cup came out easy (threads didn't look greased, but no effort at all to get it out). Then I want to the driveside cup. Couldn't get it to budge with the Park tool. Used that Pedro's screw thing to attach the Park tool to the BB axle to get a more secure fit. Used a 14" pipe wrench for more leverage. Whacked the end of the wrench with a deadblow hammer. Sprayed PB Blaster around the BB from the driveside and down the seat tube. Waited 1 day and tried again. Sprayed in more PB Blaster and waited 2-3 more days and tried again.

I took the bike to the local shop and they've tried a couple more penetrating solvents, as well as apparently heating the BB shell and cooling it down. It doesn't move. I put a note on the frame reminding them that it's an italian BB that loosens counter-clockwise on the right, so, hopefully, they were loosening it the correct way. The mechanic said he'd tried tightening and loosening it to see if he could get it to break free by tightening it, but it didn't budge either way.

The mechanic says that the only thing that he can think of to do next is to hammer out the axle and then use his dremel to try to cut out the cup. My concern with that is that, if he's not able to get out the threads, there won't be any way to get leverage on them and it'll be forever stuck. Those threadless, expandable cartridge BBs only work with English shells, and this is Italian.

Since I'm getting older (and recovering from a back injury and unrelated leg surgery) I really want to use a triple, and I'm pretty sure the BB that's in there is double only. The mechanic is off today, but I asked him to measure to make sure when he gets back. If I'm wrong and it's 118 mm (and is Octalink V1 as I think), I may just hunt down an old 6503 crankset, which wasn't my first choice, but might be acceptable. If it really is a shorter axle, I don't know what to do as they didn't make compact cranksets (not that I want one) for Octalink that I know of.

Does anyone know of something else that I could try to get this darn bb out of the shell? Is there something special about Ti? I actually wrote Litespeed (they built the frame for Merckx) to see if they had any special tricks, but haven't heard back (probably shouldn't expect them to respond about a bike they build for a different brand 2 owners ago).
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 09:27 AM
  #2  
WizardOfBoz
Generally bewildered
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 2,850

Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 260 Times in 196 Posts
Not sure if Ti galls with other metals. I don't think so. So, it would appear that your threads have corroded together. One often used tool for this is heat, applied by a rosebud flame. Make sure all the flammable oil and crease and PB Blaster is out first.

If that doesn't work I don't see how you get away from using a Dremel (or a more sophisticated approach using Wire Electrical Discharge Machining - "Wire EDM") to get the cup out.
WizardOfBoz is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 09:35 AM
  #3  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
I mean, if the Dremel will work, I don't have a problem with that. Is there a risk of the corroded threads being left behind if the rest gets cut out? I really want to build this frame up and use it (level top tubed 64x62 cm frames that can fit 28 mm wheels in good cosmetic shape don't pop up in my price range all that often), but I'd rather sell it at a loss to someone willing to ride it with an old double crankset than end up with a completely unusable frame that no one can ride.

Not sure how the mechanic heated the shell.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 09:43 AM
  #4  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,890

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21842 Post(s)
Liked 4,714 Times in 3,449 Posts
.
...apart from the titanium/aluminum tendency toward galvanic corrosion, (and I do think this is probably what is going on,) I find myself wondering why you'd presume a Lightspeed frame, made in the USA and sporting a Shimano Hollowtech BB, would be threaded Italian ? That's not something I would conclude. I guess maybe Shimano made those cartridges in Italian version, but they didn't make many of them. I've never seen one in person.

I would certainly try some cycles of heat and cooling using a MAPP gas torch and Freeze Off before I let anyone go at that thing with a cutting tool. Also, when hot, if you drip some ATF/acetone mix on the thread seam between the shell and the cartridge, it penetrates farther. It bubbles a little and just disappears inside the joint. I'd like to presume your chosen mechanic knows all this, but a lot of those guys don't have substantial life experiences with dismantling old bikes that have been around the block, rode hard, and put away wet.
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 07-19-21, 09:47 AM
  #5  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,890

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21842 Post(s)
Liked 4,714 Times in 3,449 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I mean, if the Dremel will work, I don't have a problem with that. Is there a risk of the corroded threads being left behind if the rest gets cut out? I really want to build this frame up and use it (level top tubed 64x62 cm frames that can fit 28 mm wheels in good cosmetic shape don't pop up in my price range all that often), but I'd rather sell it at a loss to someone willing to ride it with an old double crankset than end up with a completely unusable frame that no one can ride.

Not sure how the mechanic heated the shell.
...any corrosion or aluminum threads left in there are easily removed with a piloted tap. I still think it's probably standard threading. If the standard threading gets badly hosed in all of this, another solution is to ream and retap Italian, but you need the tools to do this, and many places don't have them these days. It's also more work, so more expensive.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 07-19-21, 09:50 AM
  #6  
Barry2 
LRP=HR
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,029

Bikes: 79 Holdsworth Special, 93 C-dale MT3000 Tandem, 96 C-dale F700CAD3, 2018 Cervelo R3, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 390 Post(s)
Liked 396 Times in 249 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.I find myself wondering why you'd presume a Lightspeed frame, made in the USA and sporting a Shimano Hollowtech BB, would be threaded Italian ?
+1
Italian Thread ?!?!?!?

With the NDS removed you might be able to see enough DS threads to confirm your thought.

Barry

Looking again, I see the bearings and shaft are still in the bike. Do you believe the BB cartridge to be integral with the DS Cup/retainer?

Last edited by Barry2; 07-19-21 at 09:56 AM.
Barry2 is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 09:55 AM
  #7  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...apart from the titanium/aluminum tendency toward galvanic corrosion, (and I do think this is probably what is going on,) I find myself wondering why you'd presume a Lightspeed frame, made in the USA and sporting a Shimano Hollowtech BB, would be threaded Italian ? That's not something I would conclude. I guess maybe Shimano made those cartridges in Italian version, but they didn't make many of them. I've never seen one in person.

I would certainly try some cycles of heat and cooling using a MAPP gas torch and Freeze Off before I let anyone go at that thing with a cutting tool. Also, when hot, if you drip some ATF/acetone mix on the thread seam between the shell and the cartridge, it penetrates farther. It bubbles a little and just disappears inside the joint. I'd like to presume your chosen mechanic knows all this, but a lot of those guys don't have substantial life experiences with dismantling old bikes that have been around the block, rode hard, and put away wet.
The frame was made in the USofA by Litespeed, but they made it for Eddy Merckx (in 1995 or '96 when Italian was still sort of a thing if not common), and an old catalog says it's Italian threaded and the BB shell measured 69.8 mm by my digital calipers, which is closer to 70 than 68.

I'm honestly not sure how much experience with this sort of thing the mechanic has. I just dropped it off at the local shop (I do most of the simple stuff myself) and didn't get to point to the oldest guy and say, "have him do it". I do get that there are probably some guys who have only ever worked on Carbon or aluminum stuff that isn't that old if they haven't been there a while (high end stuff has been pretty exclusively carbon for, what, 20 years now - that just makes me feel old).

Multiple cycles of heat and freeze off might help. I'm not sure how much time the guy put in it. I'd told him when he first called saying that the cheater bar didn't do it, that I felt I'd gotten a good deal on the frame and wouldn't have a problem going to maybe a couple hundred in labor if it was going to get it out.

I wrote the guy who sold it to me to see if he'd loctited or epoxied it in place or something (some people have done that with Italian threaded BBs because they're afraid that the axle turning in the direction will loosen it), but he said he'd bought it, found it wouldn't fit him, and sold it again without touching the BB.

Last edited by himespau; 07-19-21 at 10:02 AM.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 09:56 AM
  #8  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...any corrosion or aluminum threads left in there are easily removed with a piloted tap. I still think it's probably standard threading. If the standard threading gets badly hosed in all of this, another solution is to ream and retap Italian, but you need the tools to do this, and many places don't have them these days. It's also more work, so more expensive.
Is rethreading a problem with Ti?
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 10:02 AM
  #9  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
+1
Italian Thread ?!?!?!?

With the NDS removed you might be able to see enough DS threads to confirm your thought.

Barry

Looking again, I see the bearings and shaft are still in the bike. Do you believe the BB cartridge to be integral with the DS Cup/retainer?
That's actually a picture from the eBay sale. I pulled the NDS cup before dropping it off at the shop (it's been there a while as the mechanic working on it went on vacation and then put it lower on his priority list as I couldn't ride it anyway and it was going to be a PITA job.

It is a cartridge BB inside. I asked the mechanic if it would be possible to tap the cartridge out of the cup and just leave the cup in there as the BB I'd been planning to put back in was a Campagnolo square taper cartridge where the cartridge was independent of the cup, so maybe I could just slide the campagnolo one back in. The mechanic said that this style of cartridge from shimano was integral to the cup and couldn't get out without breaking the cup. He also questioned why I wanted to use an internal BB when the external threaded ones were better and lighter, but I have 2-3 good condition campagnolo race triple cranksets (I really like the 53-42-30 better than the new 50-39-30) and the appropriate BBs sitting around and didn't want to buy something new.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 10:02 AM
  #10  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,890

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21842 Post(s)
Liked 4,714 Times in 3,449 Posts
.
...BTW, if the spindle length is 118 (which is easily measured), as you said, there are triples that will fit on there. And the bolt center diameter is the Shimano standard of 130 for the two larger rings, so those are easily changed to whatever your poor, beat up old legs can handle, I was just looking at one yesterday, thinking I might use it to build up an older Torelli frame (that actually was made in Italy, but with standard threading in the BB). The good thing about using Shimano is that you can get decent indexing stuff for frames made back in the 6/7 speed era.

Indexed shifting that works well is a delight to use.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 07-19-21, 10:11 AM
  #11  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...BTW, if the spindle length is 118 (which is easily measured), as you said, there are triples that will fit on there. And the bolt center diameter is the Shimano standard of 130 for the two larger rings, so those are easily changed to whatever your poor, beat up old legs can handle, I was just looking at one yesterday, thinking I might use it to build up an older Torelli frame (that actually was made in Italy, but with standard threading in the BB). The good thing about using Shimano is that you can get decent indexing stuff for frames made back in the 6/7 speed era.

Indexed shifting that works well is a delight to use.
I mean my legs aren't that beat up, but I occasionally like to ride fairly steep hills. Steeper than I could do on a 39 small ring with a 25T as my largest cog in the back anyway if the BB turns out to be 109. Especially since I haven't ridden for 2 months (and my lower leg has a slowly healing 8" incision from having some bone tumors removed). Unfortunately, since the frame is at the shop and the mechanic took a long weekend, I can't measure it quite yet. If it does turn out to be a 109 mm spindle, is there a way to turn a 130 BCD crank into a compact? I thought with 130, I was limited to 38T as my small ring.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 10:14 AM
  #12  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,890

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21842 Post(s)
Liked 4,714 Times in 3,449 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Is rethreading a problem with Ti?
...it's harder on the taps than steel, but if you use the right cutting fluid, it ought to go OK. I have never done it personally, because I have only one Ti frame here.

Read this if you're curious. Again, not something you really want to do, because much more work. Too much extra work, in your case.


If someone tapped those threads in there originally, the process can be repeated with your particular alloy. Also, note that there is a heat transmission issue with titanium, which might explain the failure of the heating/cooling experiment. You need a lot of heat, and for a longer time, to get it to work. Assuming it will work at all.

It's not the end of the world if whoever uses that dremel wheel slips in a couple of places and dings the threads. You still have plenty of threading left in there, which will easily hold an internal cartridge BB. But if you can avoid it, that's a better course of action. I woiuld be worried that he starts cutting the ring, and it's so corroded in there that it still won't come out. That's a problem going forward.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 07-19-21, 10:17 AM
  #13  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,890

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21842 Post(s)
Liked 4,714 Times in 3,449 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I mean my legs aren't that beat up, but I occasionally like to ride fairly steep hills. Steeper than I could do on a 39 small ring with a 25T as my largest cog in the back anyway if the BB turns out to be 109. Especially since I haven't ridden for 2 months (and my lower leg has a slowly healing 8" incision from having some bone tumors removed). Unfortunately, since the frame is at the shop and the mechanic took a long weekend, I can't measure it quite yet. If it does turn out to be a 109 mm spindle, is there a way to turn a 130 BCD crank into a compact? I thought with 130, I was limited to 38T as my small ring.
...yes, I think you're probably right on that small ring number. I just don't have many hills here, and no experience with gearing for hills, other than triples. 38 on the front and 26 on the back gets me everyplace I need to go, even up on top of the levee.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 07-19-21, 10:20 AM
  #14  
jccaclimber
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SFBay
Posts: 2,067

Bikes: n, I would like n+1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 34 Posts
Ill need another poster to chime in on the specifics of titanium as well as that BB. Generally Id recommend removing the BB now. It would be unfortunate to buy a crank for this BB only to have the problem return in a few years when the BB wears out.

That said, a lot of the earlier Shimano BBs can be disassembled, with the right sockets, so they might not need to be hammered out.

With proper care I would expect destructive BB removal to be less difficult than stuck seat post removal due to the depth and opening size. Personally I would do it by hand with a hack saw, but a rotary tool will work too.

I do wonder if a well secured tool and impact wrench would be gentler than a giant breaker bar, which Ive seen several times on old fixed cups.

Is the cup portion steel or aluminum? There may be a chemical option given the titanium frame, but Id want others to chime in there.

I agree with V1 Octalink, and typically use the pictures on this page as my reference:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

Edit, now that you have one side out, you should be able to confirm the threading by measuring the ID with a pair of calipers.

Last edited by jccaclimber; 07-19-21 at 10:37 AM.
jccaclimber is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 10:31 AM
  #15  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...it's harder on the taps than steel, but if you use the right cutting fluid, it ought to go OK. I have never done it personally, because I have only one Ti frame here.

Read this if you're curious. Again, not something you really want to do, because much more work. Too much extra work, in your case.

Also, note that there is a heat transmission issue with titanium, which might explain the failure of the heating/cooling experiment. You need a lot of heat, and for a longer time, to get it to work. Assuming it will work at all.

It's not the end of the world if whoever uses that dremel wheel slips in a couple of places and dings the threads. You still have plenty of threading left in there, which will easily hold an internal cartridge BB. But if you can avoid it, that's a better course of action.
Definitely don't want to spend the time/money tapping new threads, but, if it's possible to chase the cup threads out after cutting/grinding off most of the cup, that would be great.

I totally didn't know you need longer heat/cooling with Ti. That's the type of material specific info that I knew I didn't have.

Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
I would be worried that he starts cutting the ring, and it's so corroded in there that it still won't come out. That's a problem going forward.
That's my big fear. That it all ends up being unusable.
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...yes, I think you're probably right on that small ring number. I just don't have many hills here, and no experience with gearing for hills, other than triples. 38 on the front and 26 on the back gets me everyplace I need to go, even up on top of the levee.
Several people, when I took my old bike in for insurance estimates, commented on how my 30 ring didn't look used/dirty and I don't use it often, but, when I need it, I need it.

Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
Ill need another poster to chime in on the specifics of titanium as well as that BB. Generally Id recommend removing the BB now. It would be unfortunate to buy a crank for this BB only to have the problem return in a few years when the BB wears out.

with proper care I would expect destructive BB removal to be less difficult than stuck seat post removal due to the depth and opening size.

I do wonder if a well secured tool and impact wrench would be gentler than a giant breaker bar, which Ive seen several times on old fixed cups.

Is the cup portion steel or aluminum? There may be a chemical option given the titanium frame, but Id want others to chime in there.
Oh absolutely, I'd rather get the BB out now rather than waiting and having to deal with it again in a few years (even if I stock up on a bunch of chainrings now). I'd even be willing to ignore my stockpile of cranksets and BBs and go with something new and external if I knew it would work and be futureproof (but futureproof doesn't seem to be a thing).

Good to know about the ability to be removed.

I'm pretty sure the NDS cup stuck (weakly) to my magnetic small parts bowl, so I was figuring it was steel.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 10:38 AM
  #16  
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,154

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Liked 910 Times in 633 Posts
When you get this sorted out, use some Tef-Gel on the new BB threads to help avoid getting it stuck again.
dsbrantjr is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 10:42 AM
  #17  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by dsbrantjr View Post
When you get this sorted out, use some Tef-Gel on the new BB threads to help avoid getting it stuck again.
Never heard of that. Better than marine axle grease (what I typically use)?
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 10:46 AM
  #18  
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,154

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Liked 910 Times in 633 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Never heard of that. Better than marine axle grease (what I typically use)?
Yes, it is specifically designed to prevent dissimilar metal (steel vs Ti in your case) electrolytic corrosion in marine environments; think sweat and road salts. https://www.ultratef-gel.com/tef-gel/
dsbrantjr is offline  
Likes For dsbrantjr:
Old 07-19-21, 11:09 AM
  #19  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,890

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21842 Post(s)
Liked 4,714 Times in 3,449 Posts
.
...I'm looking at an Octalink cartridge right now , one of several in the 118.5 spindle length out in the parts box for spindles rescued from the bike co-op.
The design of it is such, that the external shell (made from steel,) is of one piece, and extends the entire length of the cartridge (except for the protruding spindle ends)

It includes the threaded portion on the drive side. So I'm not certain what sort of cutting for removal is envisioned. It does narrow down so no longer in contact with the shell right past the threads a half inch in.


The non drive side cup is some sort off aluminum alloy, as have been all of the ones I've seen in person.

Not sure what the life expectancy of these is, but I've never replaced one either. Seems like a pretty solid piece of engineering. I would just figure out a way to use it as it sits, if it were me.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 07-19-21, 11:33 AM
  #20  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I'm looking at an Octalink cartridge right now , one of several in the 118.5 spindle length out in the parts box for spindles rescued from the bike co-op.
The design of it is such, that the external shell (made from steel,) is of one piece, and extends the entire length of the cartridge (except for the protruding spindle ends)

It includes the threaded portion on the drive side. So I'm not certain what sort of cutting for removal is envisioned. It does narrow down so no longer in contact with the shell right past the threads a half inch in.


The non drive side cup is some sort off aluminum alloy, as have been all of the ones I've seen in person.

Not sure what the life expectancy of these is, but I've never replaced one either. Seems like a pretty solid piece of engineering. I would just figure out a way to use it as it sits, if it were me.
Thanks, 3a. If it's got a 118 mm spindle, I'll drop by with a 6er of beer for the added stress, pay the guy for his time, and hunt down some old cranks (might try to polish off the shimano markings if I do go full Campagnolo for everything else). Not sure what I'll do if it's 109, but it sounds like it might be time to call it.

Most of my riding has been (and after getting hit to make my wife happy will probably exclusively be in the future) on a trainer on Zwift. Right now, I use rollers with a fork stand, so I never get off the big chainring, so, if I used this bike exclusively for that, I could get away with a 2x. I'd been hoping that, since this is essentially a parts build other than the frame and a couple things, I could use insurance money (if I ever get it) to get a smart trainer - in which case I'd want a triple again - but, if I stay on the rollers, I could even move to 1x.

I think he was hoping to hammer the spindle completely through the cartridge and then cut out what was left. I'd heard that at least the older octalink cartridges were needle bearings DS and ball bearings NDS to make up for the fact that there was less room for balls due to the bigger spindle, and were pretty reliable. Assuming the heating/cooling/solvents, didn't strip the grease from the cartridge.
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 11:50 AM
  #21  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,890

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21842 Post(s)
Liked 4,714 Times in 3,449 Posts
.
...I was curious about whether I was the only one who had never seen one of these go bad. Apparently they have a pretty solid reputation, if reviews online are anything to be believed.
I think the doubles length was 109, or in that vicinity. I'm gonna use the one I have here as a triple, because I'm starting to creak a little bit on the uphills myself.

Getting hit by a car gives one pause about the health benefits of all this. I am fortunate that we have a car free river MUP that goes along the American , from downtown all the way to FFolsom.
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 07-19-21, 03:07 PM
  #22  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Litespeed wrote me back and basically said that I'd tried everything they would try. Was wondering if they were going to quote me a price to cut out/replace the BB, but they're probably too busy these days for that kind of work (and it'd probably be too pricey).

Even if it turns out the spindle is 109 for a double instead of the 118 for the triple I want to run, it looks like I could get 11 speed 53/39 chainrings to put on an old octalink crankset (would have to find one of those), an 11 speed 12--32 cassette, 11 speed Centaur ergos and a front derailleur (already have centaur 11 speed rear) for $3-350 from one of the European websites and have the simplicity of a double crankset and come within 1 gear inch of what I have now with my 53-42-30 and 12/25. Definitely no longer a parts bin build, and I'd lose the ultrashift capability that I have now (one of the main selling points to me of Campagnolo shifters).
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 03:26 PM
  #23  
himespau 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,207
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2837 Post(s)
Liked 1,399 Times in 822 Posts
Add ~$100 for an 11 speed record right ergo body if I want ultrashift and another $50 for chain puts me at $500. Or I could just spend that $500 on a different frameset that works with what I have now. Hmmm...how much do I like this frameset?
himespau is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 04:12 PM
  #24  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,510
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 525 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 130 Times in 110 Posts
Be careful if you apply heat. Ti reacts with the air at temps above 800F and becomes brittle.








f
davidad is offline  
Old 07-19-21, 06:32 PM
  #25  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 22,865

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2693 Post(s)
Liked 1,406 Times in 873 Posts
Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
Italian Thread ?!?!?!?

With the NDS removed you might be able to see enough DS threads to confirm your thought.
A USA-made titanium frame is unlikely to have left the factory with an Italian thread bottom bracket shell. But anything can happen out in the wild. Perhaps the shell got stripped and was re-threaded to Italian? Measuring the inside diameter of the shell or outside diameter of the cup threads should be sufficient: Italian is 36mm; English is a hair under 35mm.
JohnDThompson is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.