How Do You Improve Women's Racing?
03-08-14, 10:47 AM
#1
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How Do You Improve Women's Racing?
I understand that the 33 is almost exclusively male, but supposing USAC was listening to what we lowly yokels think about it, how would you improve the women's side of the sport?
What's the scene like in your area?
What's being done to either promote it among women or bolster the numbers?
In Michigan, if we get 25 women racers at an event, it's a big deal. At smaller events, we get 10 to 15. We've had to encourage women to finish a race just to fill the prize list. So it's a common thing to see a woman who gets lapped three times still win money.
We have two women in our area who can take their pulls in a hard training ride with the men. We can't drop them. Put them in a women's race, and they ride around at 18mph, and they're still dropping riders.
What's the scene like in your area?
What's being done to either promote it among women or bolster the numbers?
In Michigan, if we get 25 women racers at an event, it's a big deal. At smaller events, we get 10 to 15. We've had to encourage women to finish a race just to fill the prize list. So it's a common thing to see a woman who gets lapped three times still win money.
We have two women in our area who can take their pulls in a hard training ride with the men. We can't drop them. Put them in a women's race, and they ride around at 18mph, and they're still dropping riders.
03-08-14, 11:14 AM
#2
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Money won't do it. Couple races up here offered free entry, all races offer crazy prizes (funded from the men's fields) and it makes no difference.
Cross country and cyclocross don't have any problem attracting the ladies.
Cross country and cyclocross don't have any problem attracting the ladies.
03-08-14, 11:32 AM
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at least here in Co the womens's mtb scene seems to bring decent turnout. Theres an annual women's only mtb race called the Beti Bike Bash that had a large turnout last year. Cyclocross Nats in Boulder had huge womens entry.
03-08-14, 12:35 PM
#4
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There must be something cultural with the lack of women in racing. It's not the sexism, I don't think, because, face it, all the guys are riding around in skin tight lycra with no underwear. So it's got to be something else. No societal reinforcement? Meaning no acknowledgment by other women or by men/women peers?
The hopelessness of racing against the strongest riders? I raced for three years as a Junior and got my butt kicked from here to tomorrow. George Hincapie, Frank McCormack, they were two of the guys that were at the races regularly. Other lessor riders, still good enough to place at Nationals, would pick up if they weren't there. Basically I entered Cat 1-2 races for three years. Was it fun? Not really. Single file until they took off, then the Cat 3 type Juniors would try and chase, we'd get lapped, and that was it. When I did my first Senior race I was shocked at how slow it was. I won every prime (5 of them?) and I won the race. I think there wouldn't be a lot of males racing if the same thing happened. Women are usually thrown into an open race (they are at Bethel). For a while around here there was a bunch of Cat 3-4 women's races, but the good 3s would crush everyone else and then get in turn crushed in the open races. Only a few of those women are still racing, and when I say "few", I mean like 3 or 4 that I know of.
I put those ideas forward because at cross races there's more women. It's more supportive, it's acceptable not to be winning, and there's a before- and after- social scene. There's also an element of challenging oneself (in 'cross) versus trying to beat others (in a crit).
Hm Junior just woke up so I'll leave it at that.
The hopelessness of racing against the strongest riders? I raced for three years as a Junior and got my butt kicked from here to tomorrow. George Hincapie, Frank McCormack, they were two of the guys that were at the races regularly. Other lessor riders, still good enough to place at Nationals, would pick up if they weren't there. Basically I entered Cat 1-2 races for three years. Was it fun? Not really. Single file until they took off, then the Cat 3 type Juniors would try and chase, we'd get lapped, and that was it. When I did my first Senior race I was shocked at how slow it was. I won every prime (5 of them?) and I won the race. I think there wouldn't be a lot of males racing if the same thing happened. Women are usually thrown into an open race (they are at Bethel). For a while around here there was a bunch of Cat 3-4 women's races, but the good 3s would crush everyone else and then get in turn crushed in the open races. Only a few of those women are still racing, and when I say "few", I mean like 3 or 4 that I know of.
I put those ideas forward because at cross races there's more women. It's more supportive, it's acceptable not to be winning, and there's a before- and after- social scene. There's also an element of challenging oneself (in 'cross) versus trying to beat others (in a crit).
Hm Junior just woke up so I'll leave it at that.
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03-08-14, 12:48 PM
#5
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That's a good point about the acceptability of not winning in a 'cross race. It's also because you're in control of your own world in that sort of event.
A female rider I knew from Dayton OH outlined a lot of the problems, and they made a lot of sense:
Athletic women in their teens aren't exposed to bike racing as readily as volleyball, basketball, track, etc.
Athletic women with any ambition in their twenties are in grad school pursuing advanced degrees.
Athletic women in their thirties are chasing a career or starting a family.
Athletic women in their 40s are usually the primary caregiver for a family and don't want to risk getting hurt.
I got harangued for repeating that to a handful of women racers. They didn't agree with a word of it.
A female rider I knew from Dayton OH outlined a lot of the problems, and they made a lot of sense:
Athletic women in their teens aren't exposed to bike racing as readily as volleyball, basketball, track, etc.
Athletic women with any ambition in their twenties are in grad school pursuing advanced degrees.
Athletic women in their thirties are chasing a career or starting a family.
Athletic women in their 40s are usually the primary caregiver for a family and don't want to risk getting hurt.
I got harangued for repeating that to a handful of women racers. They didn't agree with a word of it.
03-08-14, 12:53 PM
#6
out walking the earth
Isn't it a bit of a fallacy that this is a problem that needs to be fixed?
NJ folks put a lot of effort into promoting women's racing. Then last year there were situations where women complained, loudly, where there weren't women's races and then literally didn't show to the events where there were. In one well flamed case a women's teamed who loudly complained actually had a team training ride the day there was a well paying women's crit. Aforementioned promoters now have a **** it attitude.
I hate women's racing. I hate that our masters racers have huge fields and are shorter when there's 12 women taking 18 mph pulls for 40 minutes and then sprinting, when the simple math is my race could be a more reasonable duration.
I wish they all did the hot yoga in my wife's class.
No offense intended, but fact is the mediocrity that's allowed to exist directly impacts my own racing.
NJ folks put a lot of effort into promoting women's racing. Then last year there were situations where women complained, loudly, where there weren't women's races and then literally didn't show to the events where there were. In one well flamed case a women's teamed who loudly complained actually had a team training ride the day there was a well paying women's crit. Aforementioned promoters now have a **** it attitude.
I hate women's racing. I hate that our masters racers have huge fields and are shorter when there's 12 women taking 18 mph pulls for 40 minutes and then sprinting, when the simple math is my race could be a more reasonable duration.
I wish they all did the hot yoga in my wife's class.
No offense intended, but fact is the mediocrity that's allowed to exist directly impacts my own racing.
03-08-14, 01:09 PM
#7
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a) Some of the attitudes presented here in this very thread can probably answer the question. I wouldn't blame men for keeping down women's racing, but these attitudes sure aren't helping.
b) In areas with big racing scenes, like Norcal, this seems to be less of a problem
- pro women like Ali Tetrik(?) show up, and I'm pretty sure she's not riding around at 18 mph
c) Part of what works here, I think, is that with a larger number of women riders, they don't just jam everything in a p/1/2/3/4 race for the women like what happens in smaller areas.
- how many cat 4/5 dudes would show up if they had to race against pros?
To some extent, it's a catch-22.
Smaller fields yield combined races which in turn yield a smaller turnout. Smaller turnouts yield smaller payouts, which in turn yield future smaller payouts, etc, etc.
b) In areas with big racing scenes, like Norcal, this seems to be less of a problem
- pro women like Ali Tetrik(?) show up, and I'm pretty sure she's not riding around at 18 mph
c) Part of what works here, I think, is that with a larger number of women riders, they don't just jam everything in a p/1/2/3/4 race for the women like what happens in smaller areas.
- how many cat 4/5 dudes would show up if they had to race against pros?
To some extent, it's a catch-22.
Smaller fields yield combined races which in turn yield a smaller turnout. Smaller turnouts yield smaller payouts, which in turn yield future smaller payouts, etc, etc.
03-08-14, 01:21 PM
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My wife entered a few crits a couple yrs ago. Shes strong and capable.
After the first one she said "why would i want to support this? These people are ****** ********."
now she does some mtb racing, and will start racing cross this year. Loves the atmosphere.
After the first one she said "why would i want to support this? These people are ****** ********."
now she does some mtb racing, and will start racing cross this year. Loves the atmosphere.
03-08-14, 01:22 PM
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Is the problem not bigger than cycling? Women are less likely to pursue athletics in general, why would cycling be an exception? Cycling is hardly a manly sport so its at least open to women (compared to football).
There are issues within cycling of course (why not have a women's major tour?) but I think again its because there is no women's superbowl or world series.
For those training in Tucson area right now, there is a film on Monday at the loft called 'half the road', which is basically a movie on this thread title. Writer/director will be there.
There are issues within cycling of course (why not have a women's major tour?) but I think again its because there is no women's superbowl or world series.
For those training in Tucson area right now, there is a film on Monday at the loft called 'half the road', which is basically a movie on this thread title. Writer/director will be there.
03-08-14, 01:54 PM
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The women's racing scene here in AZ is pretty small. Fields are usually 20 or less. I have been group riding for a few years, mostly with men and I wasn't too excited about racing, but I actually enjoy it.
This is my first year racing, so my experience is limited. Every race I've entered has been different...I've done crits where they combine categories, I've also pulled up to the line and found out that we are staggering the start, so 3 different races happening in one crit and you are not allowed to work with the different groups (confusing). I've done races where I've TTd most of the race, lapped the field (that is awkward!) and was easily able to upgrade.
I think the biggest issue for me is combining categories. The Masters usually gets combined with 4's...those races are usually early in the morning. The next step is usually a P123 race (usually the last race of the day)...so when you upgrade from 4 to 3, you go from a 25 minute 20mph race to a 50 minute race with the Pros. There's not much in between. I can see how that can be intimidating and may be a factor why so many girls here stay Cat 4.
It's the same in our group rides. If there are women, they tend to stay in the B and C groups. I'm not wired like that. When I started cycling I got dropped by the A group every.single.time. I just was stubborn and tried to hang on longer each time. I also rode with some really great guys who encouraged me and mentored me.
I completely understand why women's fields get combined. I'm not complaining. It's a numbers thing and like Matt says, a catch 22. I'm going to be racing with Pro women from here on out, and I figure I just need to up my game a bit to be able to hang LOL. I do like the USAC rules that allows women to race in men's fields. For me, this gives me other options. I can race Masters or my Cat as a women or I can jump into men's races. Last week I raced Cat 4 men in a road race. It was a great experience and very different from the women's races I have done.
Sorry, I really don't have many suggestions on how to "fix" women's racing. I'm really happy with where I am in cycling.
There's an all women's team here that offers a lot of incentives for women to race/ride....paid entries to every race, lots of free stuff, clinics, coaching etc. It's a pretty big team and they seem to be doing everything right in terms of attracting females to the sport, but most of the riders are Cat 4. I chose not to join that team because it wouldn't be a good fit for me. I race on an all men's team and I like it.
In addition to the all women's team here, there's a group called WoCAA which is promoting women's cycling...they offered up a race series this year (using local races to gain points), they offer clinics etc too https://www.womensbiketalk.com/
This is my first year racing, so my experience is limited. Every race I've entered has been different...I've done crits where they combine categories, I've also pulled up to the line and found out that we are staggering the start, so 3 different races happening in one crit and you are not allowed to work with the different groups (confusing). I've done races where I've TTd most of the race, lapped the field (that is awkward!) and was easily able to upgrade.
I think the biggest issue for me is combining categories. The Masters usually gets combined with 4's...those races are usually early in the morning. The next step is usually a P123 race (usually the last race of the day)...so when you upgrade from 4 to 3, you go from a 25 minute 20mph race to a 50 minute race with the Pros. There's not much in between. I can see how that can be intimidating and may be a factor why so many girls here stay Cat 4.
It's the same in our group rides. If there are women, they tend to stay in the B and C groups. I'm not wired like that. When I started cycling I got dropped by the A group every.single.time. I just was stubborn and tried to hang on longer each time. I also rode with some really great guys who encouraged me and mentored me.
I completely understand why women's fields get combined. I'm not complaining. It's a numbers thing and like Matt says, a catch 22. I'm going to be racing with Pro women from here on out, and I figure I just need to up my game a bit to be able to hang LOL. I do like the USAC rules that allows women to race in men's fields. For me, this gives me other options. I can race Masters or my Cat as a women or I can jump into men's races. Last week I raced Cat 4 men in a road race. It was a great experience and very different from the women's races I have done.
Sorry, I really don't have many suggestions on how to "fix" women's racing. I'm really happy with where I am in cycling.
There's an all women's team here that offers a lot of incentives for women to race/ride....paid entries to every race, lots of free stuff, clinics, coaching etc. It's a pretty big team and they seem to be doing everything right in terms of attracting females to the sport, but most of the riders are Cat 4. I chose not to join that team because it wouldn't be a good fit for me. I race on an all men's team and I like it.
In addition to the all women's team here, there's a group called WoCAA which is promoting women's cycling...they offered up a race series this year (using local races to gain points), they offer clinics etc too https://www.womensbiketalk.com/
03-08-14, 02:33 PM
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Why not just have the women ride in men's fields when the field sizes don't justify having separate women's fields? I imagine most Cat 4 women could hang with Cat 5 men. Same with Cat 2/3 women and Cat 4 men.
You can still score them separately, but putting women in the men's fields might solve the field size and lack of competitive racing issues.
I agree with the complaint above though about how women's racing is being effectively subsidized by the men. I have nothing against women's racing and think in an ideal world it would be as competitive as men's races, but it's not something I am interested in helping to pay for, just like I would guess most women racers are not interested in subsidizing men's races.
You can still score them separately, but putting women in the men's fields might solve the field size and lack of competitive racing issues.
I agree with the complaint above though about how women's racing is being effectively subsidized by the men. I have nothing against women's racing and think in an ideal world it would be as competitive as men's races, but it's not something I am interested in helping to pay for, just like I would guess most women racers are not interested in subsidizing men's races.
03-08-14, 03:10 PM
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There is a huge cultural difference between road racing and MTB/CX racing. In road racing, winning is what it's all about; witness the "does 47th place matter?" thread, or CDR's post about paying your dues getting your ass kicked for a long time without having fun. Road racing commonly brings out the *******s, or at least the ******* that's within each of us.
In MTB and CX, it's much more about pushing yourself and having a good time. ******ishness isn't really tolerated.
My hypothesis is that these environments are differentially appealing to the different genders.
03-08-14, 03:17 PM
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03-08-14, 03:35 PM
#14
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Bingo.
There is a huge cultural difference between road racing and MTB/CX racing. In road racing, winning is what it's all about; witness the "does 47th place matter?" thread, or CDR's post about paying your dues getting your ass kicked for a long time without having fun. Road racing commonly brings out the *******s, or at least the ******* that's within each of us.
In MTB and CX, it's much more about pushing yourself and having a good time. ******ishness isn't really tolerated.
My hypothesis is that these environments are differentially appealing to the different genders.
There is a huge cultural difference between road racing and MTB/CX racing. In road racing, winning is what it's all about; witness the "does 47th place matter?" thread, or CDR's post about paying your dues getting your ass kicked for a long time without having fun. Road racing commonly brings out the *******s, or at least the ******* that's within each of us.
In MTB and CX, it's much more about pushing yourself and having a good time. ******ishness isn't really tolerated.
My hypothesis is that these environments are differentially appealing to the different genders.
IME the mtb and cross scene are just as physically demanding and difficult. Yet much more inviting to newcomers.
03-08-14, 03:39 PM
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I don't think its racing that's keeping women out, but they probably don't want to deal with being one of the few female's in a male dominated sport. Most females probably don't want to spend their training sessions with a bunch of guys.
03-08-14, 06:00 PM
#16
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the biggest factor keeping women away from road racing: Triathlons.
And the women on our team whom aren't tri-chicks seem to have been gravitating towards MTB.
And the women on our team whom aren't tri-chicks seem to have been gravitating towards MTB.
03-08-14, 06:47 PM
#17
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I think there's a meeting of larger cultural issues (in particular, women being socialized to avoid competition to a much greater extent than men) and some of the particular elements of road racing culture. Like the extreme competitiveness and (contrary to gtrob's post above) often hyper-macho attitudes of most male bike racers. The more even participation in MTB and CX are perfect examples of the difference culture can make. Small fields are also less discouraging in those disciplines than in road racing. It's easier to keep growing if the women's fields in a 'cross race start out at ten riders, because getting dropped isn't really a thing. There's a much more serious chicken and egg problem on the road, where small fields = getting dropped over and over, which means no longer showing up to that race, or maybe no longer showing up to ANY races.
I sympathize with promoters who go to the trouble to incentivize women for racing in their events, only to have them fail to show, but I don't really have an answer to it other than that they need to keep at it if they can possibly afford it, because it's the right thing to do. Complaining about women not showing up to these races loses track of the fact that women have the same right to choose their events for their own reasons that men do, and this problem isn't their fault. It's the larger culture's fault, for making it more difficult in general for women to want to enter competitive sports, and it's our specific fault for having a road racing culture that's so unfriendly to most women as they are. Gary's post being a perfect example of the kind of hostility that isn't helpful, no matter how justified he feels. Gary's post is also a perfect example of why combining men's and women's fields doesn't really do anyone any favors. But see again for chicken and egg, and the logistics of running enough separate fields can be really, really hard for a road event. There's a lot that needs to happen, but one of them is going to have to be organizers continuing to take it on the chin as much as they can while running a sustainable event, because it's the right thing to do.
I don't think things are hopeless. There's good women's racing where there's good participation. Collegiate racing (in the ECCC anyway) has some great participation and good races. And at the highest level of the sport, the quality of the racing these days is crazy, crazy good - the women's Olympic RR was better than the men's in 2012. So was Worlds. It's been just as good since then. It's absolutely worth continuing to try, even if it weren't just the right thing to do.
I sympathize with promoters who go to the trouble to incentivize women for racing in their events, only to have them fail to show, but I don't really have an answer to it other than that they need to keep at it if they can possibly afford it, because it's the right thing to do. Complaining about women not showing up to these races loses track of the fact that women have the same right to choose their events for their own reasons that men do, and this problem isn't their fault. It's the larger culture's fault, for making it more difficult in general for women to want to enter competitive sports, and it's our specific fault for having a road racing culture that's so unfriendly to most women as they are. Gary's post being a perfect example of the kind of hostility that isn't helpful, no matter how justified he feels. Gary's post is also a perfect example of why combining men's and women's fields doesn't really do anyone any favors. But see again for chicken and egg, and the logistics of running enough separate fields can be really, really hard for a road event. There's a lot that needs to happen, but one of them is going to have to be organizers continuing to take it on the chin as much as they can while running a sustainable event, because it's the right thing to do.
I don't think things are hopeless. There's good women's racing where there's good participation. Collegiate racing (in the ECCC anyway) has some great participation and good races. And at the highest level of the sport, the quality of the racing these days is crazy, crazy good - the women's Olympic RR was better than the men's in 2012. So was Worlds. It's been just as good since then. It's absolutely worth continuing to try, even if it weren't just the right thing to do.
03-08-14, 06:54 PM
#18
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Well, I don't think it's keeping women away from road racing, I think a lot of women are doing tris who don't want to do road racing. I think it comes back to what I said about the culture. Look at running races for a similar dynamic - in these cultures, the emphasis is really on personal development and achieving personal bests. And road racing is about measuring yourself against other people in a really explicit way. Triathlon has been so successful for the same reason running races are successful, they have found a balance where the people at the front of the race are all-out competing to be the best but everyone else is just trying to do their best. I know that there are folks in the 33 that like to deride that formula, but which one is more successful in getting mass participation by both men and women? Which one is more successful in getting people interested in setting fitness goals? I'm not saying bike racing can or should aim to move in entirely that direction - being a pack-racing sport is definitely a contributing factor to road racing culture - but that's food for thought.
03-08-14, 06:58 PM
#19
fuggitivo solitario
That's a good point about the acceptability of not winning in a 'cross race. It's also because you're in control of your own world in that sort of event.
A female rider I knew from Dayton OH outlined a lot of the problems, and they made a lot of sense:
Athletic women in their teens aren't exposed to bike racing as readily as volleyball, basketball, track, etc.
Athletic women with any ambition in their twenties are in grad school pursuing advanced degrees.
Athletic women in their thirties are chasing a career or starting a family.
Athletic women in their 40s are usually the primary caregiver for a family and don't want to risk getting hurt.
I got harangued for repeating that to a handful of women racers. They didn't agree with a word of it.
A female rider I knew from Dayton OH outlined a lot of the problems, and they made a lot of sense:
Athletic women in their teens aren't exposed to bike racing as readily as volleyball, basketball, track, etc.
Athletic women with any ambition in their twenties are in grad school pursuing advanced degrees.
Athletic women in their thirties are chasing a career or starting a family.
Athletic women in their 40s are usually the primary caregiver for a family and don't want to risk getting hurt.
I got harangued for repeating that to a handful of women racers. They didn't agree with a word of it.
I think there's a meeting of larger cultural issues (in particular, women being socialized to avoid competition to a much greater extent than men) and some of the particular elements of road racing culture. Like the extreme competitiveness and (contrary to gtrob's post above) often hyper-macho attitudes of most male bike racers. The more even participation in MTB and CX are perfect examples of the difference culture can make. Small fields are also less discouraging in those disciplines than in road racing. It's easier to keep growing if the women's fields in a 'cross race start out at ten riders, because getting dropped isn't really a thing. There's a much more serious chicken and egg problem on the road, where small fields = getting dropped over and over, which means no longer showing up to that race, or maybe no longer showing up to ANY races.
I sympathize with promoters who go to the trouble to incentivize women for racing in their events, only to have them fail to show, but I don't really have an answer to it other than that they need to keep at it if they can possibly afford it, because it's the right thing to do. Complaining about women not showing up to these races loses track of the fact that women have the same right to choose their events for their own reasons that men do, and this problem isn't their fault. It's the larger culture's fault, for making it more difficult in general for women to want to enter competitive sports, and it's our specific fault for having a road racing culture that's so unfriendly to most women as they are. Gary's post being a perfect example of the kind of hostility that isn't helpful, no matter how justified he feels. Gary's post is also a perfect example of why combining men's and women's fields doesn't really do anyone any favors. But see again for chicken and egg, and the logistics of running enough separate fields can be really, really hard for a road event. There's a lot that needs to happen, but one of them is going to have to be organizers continuing to take it on the chin as much as they can while running a sustainable event, because it's the right thing to do.
I don't think things are hopeless. There's good women's racing where there's good participation. Collegiate racing (in the ECCC anyway) has some great participation and good races. And at the highest level of the sport, the quality of the racing these days is crazy, crazy good - the women's Olympic RR was better than the men's in 2012. So was Worlds. It's been just as good since then. It's absolutely worth continuing to try, even if it weren't just the right thing to do.
I sympathize with promoters who go to the trouble to incentivize women for racing in their events, only to have them fail to show, but I don't really have an answer to it other than that they need to keep at it if they can possibly afford it, because it's the right thing to do. Complaining about women not showing up to these races loses track of the fact that women have the same right to choose their events for their own reasons that men do, and this problem isn't their fault. It's the larger culture's fault, for making it more difficult in general for women to want to enter competitive sports, and it's our specific fault for having a road racing culture that's so unfriendly to most women as they are. Gary's post being a perfect example of the kind of hostility that isn't helpful, no matter how justified he feels. Gary's post is also a perfect example of why combining men's and women's fields doesn't really do anyone any favors. But see again for chicken and egg, and the logistics of running enough separate fields can be really, really hard for a road event. There's a lot that needs to happen, but one of them is going to have to be organizers continuing to take it on the chin as much as they can while running a sustainable event, because it's the right thing to do.
I don't think things are hopeless. There's good women's racing where there's good participation. Collegiate racing (in the ECCC anyway) has some great participation and good races. And at the highest level of the sport, the quality of the racing these days is crazy, crazy good - the women's Olympic RR was better than the men's in 2012. So was Worlds. It's been just as good since then. It's absolutely worth continuing to try, even if it weren't just the right thing to do.
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Also, i know i got somewhat flamed the last time i mentioned this, but there's also the issue of the perception of danger of bike racing. Somehow triathlons seem safer, nevermind that you are descending at 45mph on some really tall wheels. I don't know the numbers, but it'd be nice to know the participation of women in moto GP's.
The actual dynamics of racing itself may also affect things.
03-08-14, 06:59 PM
#20
out walking the earth
I'm not looking to be helpful. Simply honest. In races with decent fields it's great. They ran a number of women's races today at Grant's tomb and had decent turnout. My complaint was specific. Women in NJ complained for races, got them, and didn't show. The racing that goes on is sad to watch.
Not sure how my post is an example of how combining fields is a bad idea. We've raced with combined fields with women plenty in NY.
And bike racing is moving in the direction for the masses….gran fondo. More and more each year. Fight for your straight up races folks, because they're going to go away. Promoters make more money on Fondos and bring in a lot more bodies.
Not sure how my post is an example of how combining fields is a bad idea. We've raced with combined fields with women plenty in NY.
And bike racing is moving in the direction for the masses….gran fondo. More and more each year. Fight for your straight up races folks, because they're going to go away. Promoters make more money on Fondos and bring in a lot more bodies.
03-08-14, 08:28 PM
#21
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I don't mind that the sport is growing, and if it is Gran Fondo's so be it. Its funny that people enter these events under the perception that they are somehow safer than actual racing.
03-08-14, 08:39 PM
#22
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In Ontario women's racing is having the same issues that gsteinb described. Their lack of speed was starting to affect the timing of later races so the OCA instituted a time limit on their races instead of an amount of laps. For Provincials in 2013 the ladies petitioned the OCA to get a proper lap race like the guys and not a time limit race. They got it and then proceeded to race it like it was a Sunday group ride. They did not do themselves any favours. The sad part is I have ridden with a number of these women, because of the ex, and i know they are faster. For some reason come race day they do not attack, they do not race.
The interesting part is that lots of guys will go the extra mile to help the ladies when it comes to training/racing tips and confidence building.
What else can be, I'm not sure and frankly I don't care anymore
The interesting part is that lots of guys will go the extra mile to help the ladies when it comes to training/racing tips and confidence building.
What else can be, I'm not sure and frankly I don't care anymore
03-08-14, 08:54 PM
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I would compare women's racing to junior racing when the junior field is small. Often times juniors ride around at about 15 mph, jump to 35, then instantly drop back down to 15. It just has something to do with how small the field is, and everyone's non-interest in riding a time trial (that's what small races with big fitness gaps become. Every junior race i did outside of national level junior races were either A) blow up the field as fast as possible then ride in solo B) ride around at 15 mph with the occasional fast 20 seconds, then sprint for the finish).
women can be very fast, but it's just often too small of a race for the fast person to actually want to race, or they just want to get away as fast as possible. Boring racing leads to small turn out of other women.
women can be very fast, but it's just often too small of a race for the fast person to actually want to race, or they just want to get away as fast as possible. Boring racing leads to small turn out of other women.
03-08-14, 09:03 PM
#24
RacingBear
It takes certain mentality and "aggressiveness" to race road bikes. Because it is direct competition against other people, and is relatively dangerous. Most women just not interested in such a thing, and/or have that mentality. Those that do usually end up in other sports. I think that is why a lot of women who cycle and want to compete end up in triathlons. They can still "compete", but it is more against themselves rather then other people. I think there should be a bigger drive to get women in to cycling in general, and if they want to race groovy.
03-08-14, 09:13 PM
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I'm waiting for a friend of mine to chime in, but she's doing a stage race this weekend. She has faced an extreme version of trying to find a field that makes sense for to race, with enough people in her range to make it worthwhile... definitely part of the Catch-22 that has been mentioned.
As rideaz has described, here in AZ there are usually two races; a massively combined race, and the P123. The P123 has some really fast riders. They truly kick ass. I'm sure moving to that race from the other one is a major "welcome to the big leagues" experience, as some of the women race the national circuit. One just won GC at Valley of Fire. She sometimes races the men's races, and can beat all but a few of the men when a RR course suits her. Personally, I want to see her, and all the women who want to get out there, have all the opportunities it's possible to present to them. Makes the whole racing scene feel... I dunno... healthier somehow. Just like having junior involvement. Some of those fields are also pretty small here in AZ.
As rideaz has described, here in AZ there are usually two races; a massively combined race, and the P123. The P123 has some really fast riders. They truly kick ass. I'm sure moving to that race from the other one is a major "welcome to the big leagues" experience, as some of the women race the national circuit. One just won GC at Valley of Fire. She sometimes races the men's races, and can beat all but a few of the men when a RR course suits her. Personally, I want to see her, and all the women who want to get out there, have all the opportunities it's possible to present to them. Makes the whole racing scene feel... I dunno... healthier somehow. Just like having junior involvement. Some of those fields are also pretty small here in AZ.