Riding on 40-55mph Road?
12-21-21, 01:49 PM
#51
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,965
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,529 Times
in
1,042 Posts
However in many situations I'd just find being on the shoulder more risky. Many of them things that bbbean mentioned. There are quite a few roads around me with 50 mph and faster traffic that the width of the shoulders varies constantly and in some places is non existent. And non existent always being in the worst place for someone not in the traffic lanes to suddenly be in the traffic lanes. Couple that with shoulders that end at an already narrow bridge and to me that is a recipe for more risk than just being in the traffic lane so other traffic knows what to expect.
12-21-21, 01:53 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,354
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,945 Times
in
1,906 Posts
Posted 45 MPH {or less} is about the norm where I ride. No shoulder & often tight lanes with poorly kept surfaces. As long as my equipment is working, I typically don't encounter those hostile vehicle operators. What I do often experience are those not paying attention or using care when popping out of side streets & businesses. If I am lucky, I might get the "sawwwry" look from the vehicle operator or there passenger.... That is if I am not cannoned off my bicycle & into oncoming traffic.
My advice; Be assertive & never trust the vehicle over your gut.
My advice; Be assertive & never trust the vehicle over your gut.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
12-21-21, 02:10 PM
#53
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
All those risky conditions can exist on many roads, but they do not appear to be the case where the cyclist was riding. The video poster states that the shoulder is only 8-10 inches wide; must be the optics of the camera lens or my monitor but the shoulder pictured looked far wider than that and also appeared free of obvious hazards.
I think there's really no point in arguing about whether the perception of someone who's there is better than the impression you get from watching a video. Unless they claim something completely impossible like the road is made of liquid lava, I'm going with the actual in-person evaluation of the road quality and size than what I can see (or not see) on the video. Pavement that photographs well does not always ride well--lots of small debris and cracks don't always show up to a camera lens.
12-21-21, 02:15 PM
#54
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
I think in more states than MO you'll find that slow moving traffic or specifically bicycles are exempted from the prohibition of riding on the shoulders. However in many situations I'd just find being on the shoulder more risky. Many of them things that bbbean mentioned. There are quite a few roads around me with 50 mph and faster traffic that the width of the shoulders varies constantly and in some places is non existent. And non existent always being in the worst place for someone not in the traffic lanes to suddenly be in the traffic lanes. Couple that with shoulders that end at an already narrow bridge and to me that is a recipe for more risk than just being in the traffic lane so other traffic knows what to expect.
While from my perspective, if I was on the shoulder coming up to a bridge it's understandable that I'll have to get in the traffic lane of the bridge and slow someone down. However that first car behind me in the traffic lane might get more annoyed at me for not stopping at the bridge and waiting for them to pass even though there are other cars behind them and I'm going to have to take my chances of P.O.'ing one of them. If I was already in the traffic lane and never used the shoulder, then from the motorist perspective it might not bother most of them to slow down for me since the other situation never entered their minds.
While from my perspective, if I was on the shoulder coming up to a bridge it's understandable that I'll have to get in the traffic lane of the bridge and slow someone down. However that first car behind me in the traffic lane might get more annoyed at me for not stopping at the bridge and waiting for them to pass even though there are other cars behind them and I'm going to have to take my chances of P.O.'ing one of them. If I was already in the traffic lane and never used the shoulder, then from the motorist perspective it might not bother most of them to slow down for me since the other situation never entered their minds.
In NH, there's little to no doubt in my mind that the shoulder in the video would likely be as good or better pavement than what's in the lane, and on a 45+ MPH road, I'm much safer sticking to it. The nastier roads around here are the winding 40 mph country roads with no shoulder and lots of potholes. I ride them, but it takes some skill.
12-21-21, 03:01 PM
#55
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,949
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6177 Post(s)
Liked 4,794 Times
in
3,306 Posts
All those risky conditions can exist on many roads, but they do not appear to be the case where the cyclist was riding. The video poster states that the shoulder is only 8-10 inches wide; must be the optics of the camera lens or my monitor but the shoulder pictured looked far wider than that and also appeared free of obvious hazards.
However I wasn't specifically talking about the video at all. Most any place I ride, I find the traffic lanes preferable to the shoulders. Even when the shoulders are wide. Will I ever find a place that I might ride the shoulder. Maybe, but not for the places I ride around here. My mention for bbbean in the part you quoted me on I thought would be understood to have been his comments in the last post he made. I guess I should have been a little more verbose.
12-21-21, 03:17 PM
#56
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,949
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6177 Post(s)
Liked 4,794 Times
in
3,306 Posts
In NH, there's little to no doubt in my mind that the shoulder in the video would likely be as good or better pavement than what's in the lane, and on a 45+ MPH road, I'm much safer sticking to it. The nastier roads around here are the winding 40 mph country roads with no shoulder and lots of potholes. I ride them, but it takes some skill.
If you feel better on the shoulders, then ride them. However when I'm in my car and encounter someone on the shoulders, then it greatly complicates what I have to consider. And that's one other thing that keeps me in the traffic lane while on the bike.
12-21-21, 03:52 PM
#57
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
I ride those winding country roads, two lane with no shoulder around here. Many cars like to do highways speeds on them. I feel quite safe riding them and with few exceptions, most traffic seems to be careful and tolerant of me. Even the big dump trucks that use those roads manytimes really impress me with how careful and patient they are to wait for a decent place to pass... unlike that one crazy person in the fancy SUV and pro-life plates I encounter every now and then.
If you feel better on the shoulders, then ride them. However when I'm in my car and encounter someone on the shoulders, then it greatly complicates what I have to consider. And that's one other thing that keeps me in the traffic lane while on the bike.
If you feel better on the shoulders, then ride them. However when I'm in my car and encounter someone on the shoulders, then it greatly complicates what I have to consider. And that's one other thing that keeps me in the traffic lane while on the bike.
The winding roads I was talking about don't have shoulders to ride, you have to determine where in the lane to ride situationally.
The shoulder in the video by bbbean would likely be very rideable in NH, and you would be hard-pressed to find a single cyclist on the road riding anywhere but the shoulder on a comparable road. And as a driver, I find the notion that it's more complicated to figure out how to pass a bicyclist in the shoulder lane than it is to pass them in the traffic lane absurd. Are you completely blind in your right eye or something?
I doubt whether a Mississippi country road looks like a NH country road, BTW. The winters really do a number on the roads, and the hills, lakes and rivers makes it so there's very few straight and level roads.
Last edited by livedarklions; 12-21-21 at 03:55 PM.
12-21-21, 04:09 PM
#58
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times
in
57 Posts
I live in the Coachella Valley and the average speed limit here is 40MPH. There are streets that have bike lanes but some of them are pretty thin. I hate using the sidewalks because they aren’t wide enough for both me and pedestrians. I plan on using Google maps for more safer routes, but I still need to go into traffic. Any thoughts on this or advice?
BTW, some of our two lane country roads are posted at 70 mph but most drive 80.
12-21-21, 05:51 PM
#60
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,965
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,529 Times
in
1,042 Posts
12-21-21, 08:24 PM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Posts: 908
Bikes: Wife says I have too many :-)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times
in
158 Posts
I also ask why not pull over to the right and ride on the shoulder until the car passes. The video contradicts your statement that the shoulder is only 8 to 10" wide.
It is obviuous to even a casual viewer of the video that it is more like 2 + feet wide. Swallow your pride and ride sensibly................
It is obviuous to even a casual viewer of the video that it is more like 2 + feet wide. Swallow your pride and ride sensibly................
12-21-21, 08:42 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,690
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 417 Times
in
249 Posts
__________________
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
12-21-21, 09:07 PM
#63
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
12-21-21, 10:12 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,416
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 613 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 387 Times
in
270 Posts
I looked on urban dictionary & abbreviations, but neither one list 'frap'. Please inform me (if you can w/o violating standards)
Likes For Rick:
12-22-21, 05:04 AM
#65
Mother Nature's Son
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 3,107
Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 852 Post(s)
Liked 1,433 Times
in
815 Posts
If I did not ride on roads with posted 40 to 55 mph, I would hardly ever ride. I have been doing it a long time, so in general, riding with traffic does not bother me. Some things to keep in mind: visibility, wear bright clothes and use lights; a rearview mirror, being able to see behind, without turning, is a huge help; take the lane and make eye contact with drivers, showing confidence in yourself affects the action of others. Most important, your safety is primarily in your hands. Never assume anything while riding, try to have no unexpected events take place. If you keep your mind open to all possibilities while riding, you can react to things much quicker, without actual conscious thought taking place.
12-22-21, 05:20 AM
#66
Galveston County Texas
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 33,221
Bikes: 02 GTO, 2011 Magnum
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1349 Post(s)
Liked 1,243 Times
in
621 Posts
When riding alone, I ride in the area of a vehicles Right Tire Track.
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"
Fred "The Real Fred"
Likes For 10 Wheels:
12-22-21, 06:04 AM
#67
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
I know the question has been answered but what's with the be careful with what you say or else line of communication. Can't we just get along? I know many people who are experienced at riding there bicycles in many conditions. They have learned to adjust how they ride so they are visible to traffic and when necessary use there fare share of the lane so auto morons go around them with safe passing distance. There are some wannabe bicyclists who ride in complete fear of being hit and in there efforts to ride safely make themselves hidden from the motorists.
Not sure I understand what you're trying to say, but I think the key is that there's no universally superior lane position. It's situational. On a multilane NH state road, it would be criminally stupid to ride in the lane if the shoulder is in decent condition and wide enough. Literally no one does it, experienced or not. Even on those roads, though, there are exceptions for turn lanes and exits where you definitely want to move left for visibility reasons. It's just as unrealistic to say you can never move back and forth between lanes safely as it is to say you're always safest on the far right.
Likes For livedarklions:
12-22-21, 06:20 AM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,354
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,945 Times
in
1,906 Posts
12-22-21, 08:22 AM
#69
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
TBH, I don't know what the heck the bit you quoted was referring to. I just thought that the guy he quoted was worried that the F in FRAP stood for an obscenity.
12-22-21, 08:55 AM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,354
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,945 Times
in
1,906 Posts
We have a 50/50 in understanding the poster's response. Given what is the common thing regarding offensive communication, I took the post for face value.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
12-22-21, 09:08 AM
#71
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
12-22-21, 09:21 AM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,354
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,945 Times
in
1,906 Posts
12-22-21, 09:33 AM
#73
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
12-22-21, 09:41 AM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,354
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,945 Times
in
1,906 Posts
idk if define is possible on my end, but to provide examples might require a lot of forum quotes using special character highlights.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
12-22-21, 09:53 AM
#75
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Likes For livedarklions: