GhostRider62

I didn't even go to the lousy Compass tubeless tires. They absolutely ruined my TABR race.

GP5000 TL did not exist when I was riding tubeless. I have actually considered trying them, mostly because I am a dyed in the wool Conti guy and plugging devices are now available.

My experience was 180 degrees from yours.

I have not had a flat since August 21 or 22 of 2019. I think I had two flats in 2019 over something like 14,000 miles. I had about 6 flats in 2018, but they were mostly snake bites due to my pressure guage failing and reading the wrong pressure, so, I was chronically under inflating my tires.

popeye

Wut? 4 min and I'm on my way at my preferred tire pressure.

Eric F 

That's 4 min I would much prefer to still be riding.

PeteHski

My experience fitting and removing road tubeless tyres is the total opposite to yours. Didn’t even need a plastic tyre lever, which is unusual for me. Also no flats in 2 years. So I don’t think your issues are inherent to tubeless tyres. Just some unfortunate combinations of tyres and rims. Or I’m just amazingly lucky!

WhyFi

So you experienced flats once every 3-4k miles and decided to take on tubeless, with the primary benefit being that of decreasing the likelihood and frequency of flats, and then started experiencing flats every weekend? And some of the most consistently fast road tires tested were slow dogs?

It takes some weird math to make that all add up.

popeye

In a current 6 page thread "tl sucks or something" our TL advocates here spend a dozen posts rationalizing why a piece of wire would not seal. KISS

WhyFi

*This* thread is about how hot and bothered fantasizing about tubeless makes you and your sad attempts to cover that up with protestations.

If you want to discuss what's going on in another thread, do so in that other thread - thems the BF rules.

Doomrider74

So you don't have any statistics then? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just prefer to see stats to back up such a statement.

FTR: I ride an alu 29er full suspension 2021 Norco. Half their range is alu.

Chandne

I don't need statistics because I can see and observe, and I don't really care since I prefer carbon now. I have called several manufacturers though, in may earlier quest to find alloy models. I mountain bike regularly and know almost every shop here too. I see what they stock/sell. I stick with 5-6 specific brands myself due to the suspension designs I prefer. I know of the top dozen and it is hard to find an alloy model in their range. Norco is a rare one and due to their lower price points, they do that, which is good. Guerrilla Gravity makes one or two but they are still rather rare. I believe they actually started up as a niche alloy manufacturer that made their bikes here. I have even emailed or called Pivot, Ibis, Specialized, Santa Cruz, Yeti, and Evil (I prefer the mini links, DW Links, or Switch Infinity). They all said they have no interest in alloy models since they hardly sell or just plan on 1-2 if they keep selling (like the alloy Fatboy, for example). They used to have them (the 575, 5-Spot, Moto Lite, Racer-X 26/29, ASR-SL, Tallboy, Mach 429...ALL used to be alloy only). I have spoken to Chris Cocalis once about it. He said it made no sense since 90% of high-end MTB buyers want carbon now. I think Ibis has one now. I live run Colorado which (along with CA) has the highest number of trails and mountain bikers. It is hard to find them here. Maybe in places like Oklahoma and Alabama, they are more prevalent? It just seems like they have gone the way of the 26" wheels. Now THAT is a rare bird to see anymore. My last one was a Turner 5-Spot. Specialized, Trek, Santa Cruz, and Giant, sell a ton of bikes together and it is very hard to find an alloy model anymore. They ALL had mostly or all alloy models a few years ago. Most of the boutique guys simply don't even carry one. Even Knolly and Banshee had to go carbon. This is what I have seen since around 1998 when I started mountain biking.

Doomrider74

It sounds like you do need statistics because, for example, Knolly have quite a few alloy frames in their range.

Chandne

They don't sell many anymore. Ask Noel. He was one of the last holdouts, not wanting to build carbon frames in Taiwan or China. I have talked to Noel, Dave Turner, Sherwood Gibson, a marketing guy aat Ibis and Intense, and Chris Cocalis (was Titus now Pivot). They all said the same thing- that alloy in their types of bikes was a minority and shrinking to where some manufacturers abandoned it completely. Like I said, maybe you see more alloy bikes in some places but in CO, UT, and CA, I am not seeing many at all. The decline of alloy has been going on for a while. I don't truly care because I don't want alloy, though it is nice to see a few still live for those who do. Knolly sells probably 1 bike for every 5000 bikes Specialized sells anyway. Same with GG. The vast majority seem to be carbon. Is that not the case in your area? Well, enough derail for a day. I'll go try to convince the guys at Evil to find me an Offering.

PeteHski

Now there's a blast from the past! I rode an Alloy Ventana for about 10 years in the 2000s and it was a great bike at the time. Really solid design and beautifully made. But I've long since turned to carbon frames (Specialized and currently Canyon) and they are in a different class. I would never even think of going back to an alloy frame today. Alloy frames are now very much relegated to the budget options, with very few niche exceptions.

Chandne

Very cool, PeteHski! I rarely run into an ex Ventana rider. Those Ventanas really drew attention too. Way long ago, I had a Saltamontes and the X-5. They were prob the best of their time. Sherwood is a quiet legend. He is a very good welder and fabricator so he always had that business which became much bigger and bigger. So when the alloy frame market dried up, he had a decent source of income already and did not have to go to the carbon world. He likes making his own bikes and still does but on a custom basis or as-ordered basis. Only Knolly came close to how laterally stiff his frames were, and you probably know that from your experience. I have not talked to him in years and years though I still talk to Dave Turner at times. Nice trio down memory lane for me.

Carbonfiberboy 

Last group ride I was on, on our tandem, Conti 5k, the tandem in front of us suddenly sprayed the stoker and frame with gump. They stopped. We stopped, It was still squirting. I advised them to put the squirt down, which stopped it. We left, They came in about 10' behind us and still had all the mess to clean up. We haven't flatted in a long time. Sometimes TL is great, sometimes not, just like every solution to a complicated problem. I had a typical tube-flat nightmare with a couple who didn't realize they had 650B tires on their e-bikes. That was another 10 minute stop with 4 people working on it. There's always something. I admit to liking the cleaner approach, just ordinary rubber. I carry a spare tire, pretty quick fix.

chaadster

You can get curved blade forks with disc mounts; Surly and Crust come immediately to mind.

Racing Dan

I believe its because it doesnt do what it said on the box. When road TL emerged some years ago, the marketing, YT, etc. all had us believe its the holly grail in anti flat tech finally come to life. Well it wasnt, was it? Ever since the forums and facebook have been littered wit endless accounts of TL setups failing to seal, failing to seat, failing to remain seated, failing to (you name it), and equally endless fixes, workarounds, gadgets, tools and what not to MAKE it work. Its like press fit BBs. Great on paper, but lots having endless trouble.

If road TL really did what it was supposed to. - Have the sealant -reliably- seal punctures and cuts and not often be massive faff to mount, seat and unmount, no one would gripe about it. However that simply isnt reality.

WhyFi

It's my reality. YRMV.

popeye

What color is the sky in your world?

WhyFi

It's competent colored. YRMV.

chaadster

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. When I went road tubeless in ‘13, I was well informed and had realistic expectations for the system, and you know what? It was the holy grail in anti-flat tech; nothing was better, that’s absolutely certain. I went with the wheel designers tire recco, and it was great. I ride the exact same combo to this day. It didn’t prevent every flat, but it was not supposed to. Again, tubeless is not supposed to prevent every flat. It wasn’t then and isn’t supposed to now.

I’d bet we can agree that many people continue to have unrealistic expectations of tubeless tech. I don’t know that they’re being lied to “on the box,” but I know for certain there’s a lot of misinformation spread around out there (and in here on BF).

PeteHski

For me tubeless works very well. Somehow I seem to avoid all these issues trotted out on the forums. I do research my TL tyres carefully though as I do think some brands do tubeless much better than others. I’m a big fan of Pirelli at the moment, having run a couple of pairs now (Cinturato and P-Zero Race).

PeteHski

I actually had the pleasure of riding with Sherwood one time back in the day. Really cool guy and a very good rider. I had an X5 and my wife had an El Salt. Being a mechanical engineer I really appreciated the design detail and lateral stiffness. At that time (c. 2004) carbon MTBs were very much in their infancy. But engineering moves on and my current Canyon Neuron CF is ultimately much lighter and stronger. My wife now has a carbon Juliana. I still have a soft spot for Ventana though. I sold them both a few years ago to a guy who was converting them to e-bikes!

Hiro11

Road tubeless had a bumpy start ~10 years ago. Memories of the utter pain of trying to get some first gen Hutchinson Atoms mounted on some first gen tubeless Shimano rims are vivid in my mind. About five years ago, I gave it another try, bought a compressor and a Prestaflator and at this point I have swapped all of my bikes to tubeless. Tubeless definitely requires that you learn new skills, acquire new tools and get comfortable with new maintenance procedures.

At this point, I've done about 10 full tubeless setups and I've done all kinds of tubeless maintenance/swapping tires/retaping/putting fresh sealant in etc. I'm now 100% confident in the technology. I've also figured out a setup process that is foolproof and easy for me. The last tubeless setup I did (a couple of weeks ago on my cross bike) took maybe 25 minutes total. In my opinion (note: opinion), tubeless is better in every way when compared to tube-type clinchers: lower pressures, better ride, better grip, lower (perceived) rolling resistance, dramatically lower chance of puncturing. These are benefits I've seen in the real world over lots of riding.

Pro gear selection is more driven by sponsor commitments and what mechanics are comfortable with than any other factor, but I believe it's inevitable that every pro team will move to tubeless in the next few years.

WhyFi

I'm a firm believer that you learn pretty quickly once you get your hands on things and gain practical experience (as long as you don't quit at the first hint of adversity). I'm also a firm believer that the vast majority of tubeless naysayers online have little-to-no practical experience and/or they tried tubeless when they really weren't in a position to benefit from it. Oh, or they used Stan's.

frogman

"vast majority of tubeless naysayers have no experience"
Really ? That is absurd.
The opposite is true and much more plausible. Most tubeless naysayers have tried tubeless and didn't like them.