Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Increase lower gears for easier climbing on road bike

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Increase lower gears for easier climbing on road bike

Old 01-25-21, 03:42 PM
  #1  
SteveP xyz
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Increase lower gears for easier climbing on road bike

I want to increase my lower gears for climbing on road bike. I currently have Ultegra mechanical , 11-32 rear cassette, 52-36 chainring (Ultegra FC R800) , mid-length rear derailleur pulley cage. It seems I have 2 options: 1, - get 11-34 cassette and or 2, get 34 tooth smaller chain ring. It appears that both options (parts) are available. I'm wondering which of these (or maybe do both) would be the best choice, in regard to additional equipment changes needed (i.e., adjust chain length, etc.) and cost. Can I just change the smaller chain ring without creating additional "problems"? This seems like the least expensive choice.
SteveP xyz is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:49 PM
  #2  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,824

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1774 Post(s)
Liked 1,231 Times in 852 Posts
Knowing WHICH model of Ultegra would give one an idea what max cog size your RDER will handle.
Does it have 37T of chain wrap?
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:54 PM
  #3  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,856

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2304 Post(s)
Liked 2,742 Times in 1,499 Posts
if you want to stay in spec you would need to do 50-34 upfront (16 T difference) and then you could go to 34 in the back, you could try it with keeping the big upfront

the derailler is speced as 16t diff in front and max 39 diff.

shimano specs are known to be conservative

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/produ...-R8000-GS.html
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:56 PM
  #4  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
You may have some trouble shifting up from the 34 to the 52. It's a pretty big difference and there are threads out there that indicate that it's doable, but not optimal. If you go with a 34 inner ring, consider a smaller big ring while you're at it. 46/34 is a pretty popular combo for gravel riders.
caloso is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 04:49 PM
  #5  
SapInMyBlood
Enthusiastic Sufferer
 
SapInMyBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 229

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Roubaix, 2014 Salsa Fargo, 2013 Trek Remedy, 2014 Cannondale Synapse

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 107 Posts
Swapping from the 52/36 to a 50/34 might be possible if you find someone around you locally that wants to gear up! Might be a free trade across the board. Otherwise you can usually find a secondhand set of 50/34 rings for $100 or so

The other option is - as you said - a 11-34 cassette. Bring your bike to your local shop and they might have a good deal / option / swap around to help you.

I have a 50/34T and a 11-34 cassette on all my road bikes and love the combo
SapInMyBlood is offline  
Likes For SapInMyBlood:
Old 01-25-21, 04:57 PM
  #6  
SteveP xyz
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Knowing WHICH model of Ultegra would give one an idea what max cog size your RDER will handle.
Does it have 37T of chain wrap?
Hmmm.... not sure about 37T of chain wrap. rear derailleur appears to be RD R8000-GS medium cage from link in post below. Crankset is FC-R8000. 52-36.

Thanks for the reply
SteveP xyz is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 04:58 PM
  #7  
SteveP xyz
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you. Steve
SteveP xyz is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 05:18 PM
  #8  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,856

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2304 Post(s)
Liked 2,742 Times in 1,499 Posts
Originally Posted by SteveP xyz
Hmmm.... not sure about 37T of chain wrap. rear derailleur appears to be RD R8000-GS medium cage from link in post below. Crankset is FC-R8000. 52-36.

Thanks for the reply
as noted earlier per spec will handle 39 t chain rap, but will not handle 52- 34 up front which 18 t gap, spec is 16 t gap in front
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 05:33 PM
  #9  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,824

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1774 Post(s)
Liked 1,231 Times in 852 Posts
Originally Posted by SteveP xyz
Hmmm.... not sure about 37T of chain wrap. rear derailleur appears to be RD R8000-GS medium cage from link in post below. Crankset is FC-R8000. 52-36.

Thanks for the reply
Link "below" states the Med. cage version is good for 11-34.
You should be fine.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 05:43 PM
  #10  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,772

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1936 Post(s)
Liked 2,150 Times in 1,313 Posts
I guess it depends on how much easier it needs to be.

As a perspective, if I calculated this right, your 36-32 is calculated at 30.4 gear inches.

It is somewhat of a moot point if you change just the cassette OR the chainring as you’ll be 28.7/28.6 respectively. Both gets you down to 27.0 or roughly 10% change.

I guess that 10% can be applied to lower speed or higher cadence depending on what you need for less effort.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 08:42 AM
  #11  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,213

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 443 Posts
The shimano 11-34 sprocket spacing stinks - 2T jumps from the start. I wouldn't use more than a 16T difference at the crank either. Cranks are sold with 52/36 or 50/34 chain rings for a reason.
DaveSSS is offline  
Likes For DaveSSS:
Old 01-26-21, 09:54 AM
  #12  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 956

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Triban RC520 Gravel Ltd, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 137 Posts
If you need the higher gear a 52-36 provides, an 11-34 cassette is your only option (and the cheaper option).

If you can sacrifice some top speed, a 50-34 chainring is a better option, but more expensive option, as it allows you to keep tighter gear spacing on the rear.

If you need an even lower gear, you can do both if the RD can accept the range.

I'm running a 50-34 with an 11-32 and the cassette spacing was noticeable better on the stock 11-28. I needed the climbing gears though, so I simply got used to it.
Amt0571 is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 10:24 AM
  #13  
zacster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 7,702

Bikes: Kuota Kredo/Chorus, Trek 7000 commuter, Trek 8000 MTB and a few others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 456 Times in 358 Posts
I rented a bike with a 34 front/34 rear combo in San Francisco. That combo came in handy with those hills. It was a 105 11sp setup but since it was a rental I didn't pay attention to the derailleur, all I know is it worked well as the bike was a practically new Spec Roubaix. As others are saying you can't really put a 34 on a 52, that's just too big a shift, but why would you not want to go 50/34 in front? Combined with an 11t rear that is plenty high. Honestly, I never get why people think they need such high gearing but fully understand the low gearing. And in reviewing this thread I didn't see it stated that you need the high gear anyway, just that sticking a 34 in place of the 36 is the cheapest option. It will never be as cheap or easy as you want it to be unfortunately.
zacster is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 01:43 PM
  #14  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,824

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1774 Post(s)
Liked 1,231 Times in 852 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
The shimano 11-34 sprocket spacing stinks - 2T jumps from the start. I wouldn't use more than a 16T difference at the crank either. Cranks are sold with 52/36 or 50/34 chain rings for a reason.
The "reason" being-
If you use the worst case (chain wrap wise) cassette from the "approved for gruppo" cassettes, that's the amount of chain wrap left over for the front.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 03:48 PM
  #15  
Amt0571
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Catalonia
Posts: 956

Bikes: Canyon Grand Canyon AL SL 8.0, Triban RC520 Gravel Ltd, Btwin Ultra 520 AF GF, Triban Road 7, Benotto 850

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 137 Posts
Originally Posted by zacster
I rented a bike with a 34 front/34 rear combo in San Francisco. That combo came in handy with those hills. It was a 105 11sp setup but since it was a rental I didn't pay attention to the derailleur, all I know is it worked well as the bike was a practically new Spec Roubaix. As others are saying you can't really put a 34 on a 52, that's just too big a shift, but why would you not want to go 50/34 in front? Combined with an 11t rear that is plenty high. Honestly, I never get why people think they need such high gearing but fully understand the low gearing. And in reviewing this thread I didn't see it stated that you need the high gear anyway, just that sticking a 34 in place of the 36 is the cheapest option. It will never be as cheap or easy as you want it to be unfortunately.
Well, maybe people don't think they need the high gear. They just need it.

I'm using a 50-34 with a 11-32 cassette because I need the low gear. The issue is that when you need a low gear to climb, it means you're going to come down eventually.

I have spun out my 50-11 countless times. I can pedal at 70kph, but the required cadence is simply inefficient, and I would be faster with higher gearing if I had it.
Amt0571 is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 08:22 PM
  #16  
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,918
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 496 Times in 343 Posts
Matched pairs
On modern cranksets, the two chain rings are designed to be easier to shift in matched pairs, with teeth shaping and pickup rivet pin design. I've seen comments that swapping one ring to a different size can make the small to big shift a little worse. I'm guessing it's fairly subtle, though.

Chain wrap range

Clearance to the big sprocket:
there has to be at least a slight gap between the sprocket and the top pulley, so the chain can be shifted.
For years, riders have reported good results on cassettes that are out of the chain wrap range that the manufacturers recommend. I've done it on Campagnolo, and on Shimano Di2.
My Di2 6080 came with 50/34 and 11-28. My 11-32 cassette is out of range, and the top pulley is very close to the 32 sprocket. But it shifts perfectly. I have a 11-34 for my other bike, and tried it here. It was extremely tight. It seemed to work on the bike stand, but I decided I didn't want a jammed chain out on a ride. The difference was only 6% lower, not worth the potential problem.

Chain wrap itself is to avoid a slack chain in the small chainring--smallest cog cross chain. But years ago, my bike came from the bike store with the chain a bit too long. In the small-small, the chain over the bottom pulley was rubbing on the wrap around the top pulley, and the chain from the front ring to the bottom pulley was sagging a bit. I didn't notice for quite a while. It still worked, and the rest of the gear combinations were fine.
So a bit of excess wrap is workable.
rm -rf is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 09:11 PM
  #17  
rm -rf
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,918
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked 496 Times in 343 Posts
Originally Posted by SteveP xyz
I want to increase my lower gears for climbing on road bike. I currently have Ultegra mechanical , 11-32 rear cassette, 52-36 chainring (Ultegra FC R800) , mid-length rear derailleur pulley cage. It seems I have 2 options: 1, - get 11-34 cassette and or 2, get 34 tooth smaller chain ring. It appears that both options (parts) are available. I'm wondering which of these (or maybe do both) would be the best choice, in regard to additional equipment changes needed (i.e., adjust chain length, etc.) and cost. Can I just change the smaller chain ring without creating additional "problems"? This seems like the least expensive choice.
One of the local riders got a 11-36 cassette for his Sram bike. That's really low. The tradeoff is bigger jumps in cadence in the middle of the cassette. I wouldn't like that, but it doesn't bother him.

A typical shift percentage change depends on the tooth counts. It's often between 5% and 12% or so, sometimes larger for very wide range cassettes.
The 36 to 34 chainring change would be 6% easier. (36/34 = 1.058)
The 32 to 34 cassette change would be about 6% too. (34/32 = 1.0625)
Doing both: the original ratio is 36F/32R = 1.125. The new ratio would be 34/34=1.00. 12% easier.

~~~~~
I like Mike Sherman's Gear Calculator for comparing different gearing.
It's on a new site here. (the old site changed the URL when the charts changed, but this one doesn't seem to switch the URL correctly. It was nice to be able to bookmark a setup.)

The gearing has different gaps when you switch cassettes. Here's typical flat road cadences, from 86 to 97 rpm:
36/52 and 11-32:





34/50 and 11-34: (note that this only shows 35 mph, not 40)



The gearing is a lot different from 15-25 mph at faster road cadences. It might be okay, or kind of annoying, depending on your riding style.
The big ring shifts look pretty good, but the small ring doesn't work as well at higher road speeds.
rm -rf is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 09:46 PM
  #18  
2_i 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,694

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times in 247 Posts
To me the pondered changes are so minor in terms of what they add that they are not worth the bother, or even a yawn. Put a triple on and be done with it.
2_i is offline  
Old 01-27-21, 01:44 AM
  #19  
SteveP xyz
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for the replies.

Thanks for all the good info.

Steve
SteveP xyz is offline  
Old 01-27-21, 10:41 AM
  #20  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,856

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2304 Post(s)
Liked 2,742 Times in 1,499 Posts
Originally Posted by 2_i
To me the pondered changes are so minor in terms of what they add that they are not worth the bother, or even a yawn. Put a triple on and be done with it.
you can't find a modern triple, much less modern brifters that will handle a triple. IIRC triples disappeared with advent of 10/11 speed. Last 'modernish" triple i have used was 9 speed ultegra
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 01-27-21, 11:49 AM
  #21  
2_i 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,694

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
you can't find a modern triple, much less modern brifters that will handle a triple. IIRC triples disappeared with advent of 10/11 speed. Last 'modernish" triple i have used was 9 speed ultegra
Wow! It's time for the customers to learn how to walk uphill or, resource permitting, to get a technical car to follow .
2_i is offline  
Old 01-27-21, 04:06 PM
  #22  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,213

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
you can't find a modern triple, much less modern brifters that will handle a triple. IIRC triples disappeared with advent of 10/11 speed. Last 'modernish" triple i have used was 9 speed ultegra
Triples vanished in different years and different speeds, depending on the brand. Campy has had most of the firsts for a long time - 10-11-12 speed. I used a triple through the 10 speed era, after moving to Colorado, but in 2008, 11 speed came out. I switched to a 50/34 and 12-27 cassette. I'm a lot older now, but have kept up with a modern 46/30 crank and 10-36 sram axs 12 speed cassette. I've got far more range than my old triple.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 01-27-21, 04:25 PM
  #23  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 6,826

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3185 Post(s)
Liked 2,020 Times in 1,158 Posts
I would be going to a 46/30 or so crank. My gravel bike has this with an 11-34, it makes for great climbing.
Steve B. is offline  
Old 01-27-21, 04:34 PM
  #24  
2_i 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,694

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
I'm a lot older now, but have kept up with a modern 46/30 crank and 10-36 sram axs 12 speed cassette. I've got far more range than my old triple.
Sounds like walking in some places I ride a folder, but these are personal choices.
2_i is offline  
Old 01-27-21, 04:50 PM
  #25  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,213

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by 2_i
Sounds like walking in some places I ride a folder, but these are personal choices.
I can comfortably ride at 5-6 mph up 10-12% grades. My top gear is taller than a 53/12. I have also used a 48/32, but the top gear that's the same as a 53/11 just isn't useful. I can spin the 46/10 up to 44 mph, on the way to 54 mph coasting.
DaveSSS is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.