Unknown former 12 speed bike need help to identify
05-27-21, 06:27 PM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Unknown former 12 speed bike need help to identify
Once again I am in need of your expertise, I am trying to help a friend identify this bike,the only markings on it are the 12 on the top tube and the serial number on the bottom bracket, the 12 is very familiar but I just can't place it. The shifters are suntour power shifters and the front derailleur (I believe is original) is a suntour vx dated June of 1980, the crankset is silstar dated 1981. The rear wheel and derailleur has been changed out. The brakes are dia-compe. For some reason every other decal has been removed. As you can see the 12 is in red and the lugs are all outlined in red. Any help or information will be greatly appreciated. As always thank you in advance. - Gerry 
Likes For Gashepherd:
05-27-21, 06:32 PM
#2
2k miles from the midwest
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,964
Bikes: ~'75 Colin Laing, '80s Schwinn SuperSport 650b, ex-Backroads ti project...
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 525 Post(s)
Liked 931 Times
in
446 Posts
I first though it looked like a Fuji "12", but it's been so long since I've seen one in person I don't know.
Last edited by Dylansbob; 05-27-21 at 06:38 PM.
05-27-21, 06:44 PM
#3
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,625
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3084 Post(s)
Liked 6,545 Times
in
3,757 Posts
I'd like to see what is under that black tape
__________________
05-27-21, 07:46 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,243
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3801 Post(s)
Liked 3,324 Times
in
2,170 Posts
Likes For juvela:
05-27-21, 07:54 PM
#5
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,625
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3084 Post(s)
Liked 6,545 Times
in
3,757 Posts
05-27-21, 08:01 PM
#6
Full Member
Thread Starter
05-27-21, 08:17 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,243
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3801 Post(s)
Liked 3,324 Times
in
2,170 Posts
-----
frame appears more Formosa than Nippon from here
-----
frame appears more Formosa than Nippon from here
-----
05-27-21, 09:09 PM
#8
Full Member
Thread Starter
05-27-21, 09:40 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,243
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3801 Post(s)
Liked 3,324 Times
in
2,170 Posts
05-28-21, 04:14 PM
#10
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,492
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2738 Post(s)
Liked 3,381 Times
in
2,046 Posts
05-29-21, 06:43 PM
#11
Full Member
Thread Starter
Likes For Gashepherd:
05-29-21, 07:09 PM
#12
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,625
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3084 Post(s)
Liked 6,545 Times
in
3,757 Posts
Font of the 2 matches this one.
__________________
06-01-21, 10:18 AM
#13
Full Member
Thread Starter
06-01-21, 01:00 PM
#14
Full Member
Not much help for ID, I think Japanese frame, but fairly standard entry to mid level from there.
Wanted to point out to keep an eye on the chain stays, there looks to have been a kickstand installed at one time and maybe overtightened. Might not be a big deal, but could also mean the tubes are damaged.
Wanted to point out to keep an eye on the chain stays, there looks to have been a kickstand installed at one time and maybe overtightened. Might not be a big deal, but could also mean the tubes are damaged.
__________________
06-01-21, 01:04 PM
#15
Full Member
Thread Starter
Not much help for ID, I think Japanese frame, but fairly standard entry to mid level from there.
Wanted to point out to keep an eye on the chain stays, there looks to have been a kickstand installed at one time and maybe overtightened. Might not be a big deal, but could also mean the tubes are damaged.
Wanted to point out to keep an eye on the chain stays, there looks to have been a kickstand installed at one time and maybe overtightened. Might not be a big deal, but could also mean the tubes are damaged.
06-01-21, 01:43 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,265
Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times
in
700 Posts
Almost, but not quite. The Olympic 12's #2 has its flat end of the top curve along the vertical plane, but the red #2 has its flat side along the horizontal plane, more like Futura. It reminds me of Univega, but I don't recall any names using "12".
Likes For noobinsf:
06-01-21, 03:40 PM
#17
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,492
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2738 Post(s)
Liked 3,381 Times
in
2,046 Posts
The other difference is the Nishiki seems to have braze on cable guides rather than the clamp on ones on the OP's
06-02-21, 06:49 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Assuming Nishiki, the serial number would indcate a Canadian market model manufactrured in 1984. However, all the Canadian market models, including the bottom of the line Landau were using brazed-on, top tube, cable tunnels by 1983. It's hard to believe that they regressed to cable clips for 1984. Also, the frame would post date the presumed OEM componets by a few years.
06-02-21, 09:44 AM
#19
Full Member
Thread Starter
Assuming Nishiki, the serial number would indcate a Canadian market model manufactrured in 1984. However, all the Canadian market models, including the bottom of the line Landau were using brazed-on, top tube, cable tunnels by 1983. It's hard to believe that they regressed to cable clips for 1984. Also, the frame would post date the presumed OEM componets by a few years.
06-02-21, 12:14 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3463 Post(s)
Liked 2,826 Times
in
1,994 Posts
look again I think, the LH base stroke on one finises with a sharp point, the other is cut off with a vertical termination.
To a graphic designer, not even close. Other than both are sans serif with almost constant width strokes, correction not even that.
To a graphic designer, not even close. Other than both are sans serif with almost constant width strokes, correction not even that.
06-02-21, 12:55 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,265
Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times
in
700 Posts
Assuming Nishiki, the serial number would indcate a Canadian market model manufactrured in 1984. However, all the Canadian market models, including the bottom of the line Landau were using brazed-on, top tube, cable tunnels by 1983. It's hard to believe that they regressed to cable clips for 1984. Also, the frame would post date the presumed OEM componets by a few years.
06-02-21, 02:00 PM
#22
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,625
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3084 Post(s)
Liked 6,545 Times
in
3,757 Posts
Sorry, as I am not a graphic designer. I'm just a cycling fan who was trying to help.
__________________
06-02-21, 08:58 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Given the water bottle bosses, the possibility of it being 1974 are very small. Also, the 12 decal almost certainly refers to the number of gears and 12 gears were very rare in 1974. The serial number could be reverse engineered several ways, with the most common methods covering anywhere from 1981-1984. Before we start running down the various paths, the OP should remove the fork, as there's a good possibility that it is a stock Tange or Ishiwata fork with an alpha-numeric date code stamped into the steerer tube. If so, that will help narrow down the year(s) and method of interpretting the serial number. It may not provide an answer to the brand or manufacturer but knowing the date and format could help narrow the search and determine if the 1980-1981 components are OEM.
06-09-21, 02:47 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rupert's Land
Posts: 1,243
Bikes: 1981 Raleigh GP, 1985 Norco Bush Pilot, . . .
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 241 Post(s)
Liked 187 Times
in
136 Posts
Not a Nishiki. It is a Peugeot.
There was a CP12 Sports 12 model and a CP12 Challenge model.
The headbadges said Peugeot Approved. Similar I suppose to Schwinn bicycles from Japan that said Schwinn Approved.
The OPs bicycle looks like the Challenge model. Frame made with Tange High Tensil Butted Tubing.
I am guessing here about the serial number, but I think the second letter is for the month and the first digit is for the year of frame manufacture.
Edit:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ge-1982-a.html
There was a CP12 Sports 12 model and a CP12 Challenge model.
The headbadges said Peugeot Approved. Similar I suppose to Schwinn bicycles from Japan that said Schwinn Approved.
The OPs bicycle looks like the Challenge model. Frame made with Tange High Tensil Butted Tubing.
I am guessing here about the serial number, but I think the second letter is for the month and the first digit is for the year of frame manufacture.
Edit:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ge-1982-a.html
Last edited by Hummer; 06-09-21 at 03:03 PM. Reason: add link
Likes For Hummer:
06-09-21, 10:25 PM
#25
Full Member
Thread Starter
Given the water bottle bosses, the possibility of it being 1974 are very small. Also, the 12 decal almost certainly refers to the number of gears and 12 gears were very rare in 1974. The serial number could be reverse engineered several ways, with the most common methods covering anywhere from 1981-1984. Before we start running down the various paths, the OP should remove the fork, as there's a good possibility that it is a stock Tange or Ishiwata fork with an alpha-numeric date code stamped into the steerer tube. If so, that will help narrow down the year(s) and method of interpretting the serial number. It may not provide an answer to the brand or manufacturer but knowing the date and format could help narrow the search and determine if the 1980-1981 components are OEM.
So this is the fork with the tange stamp, seems to match up with the components, the peugeot is looking like a good option, at least as far as the components go.
Last edited by Gashepherd; 06-10-21 at 07:45 AM.
