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First Time Chain Waxer Calling on Chain Waxing Gurus

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First Time Chain Waxer Calling on Chain Waxing Gurus

Old 07-26-21, 01:54 PM
  #76  
SoSmellyAir
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
IKR. The process sounds so simple that's it a no brainer.
The waxing part is easy. The chain cleaning prior to waxing is the part which is tough.
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Old 07-26-21, 02:01 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
It is the wax on the innards that matter most. That is where the wear is. When those bits wear and "stretch".....your cassette and chainrings become the target. I have cassettes with many tens of thousands of miles on them. I never have flaking wax when installing a newly waxed chain because I do not let it dry on the outside plates.
I will wipe the chain upon removal from crock pot next time I wax the chain; I suspect the excess wax on the outside is causing my initial shifting problems. Do I need to be concerned about leaving paper towel lint stuck on the outside? Or should I sacrifice an old T-shirt?
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Old 07-26-21, 02:06 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
I will wipe the chain upon removal from crock pot next time I wax the chain; I suspect the excess wax on the outside is causing my initial shifting problems. Do I need to be concerned about leaving paper towel lint stuck on the outside? Or should I sacrifice an old T-shirt?
I doubt that is a problem.

I described how I do it
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Old 07-26-21, 02:16 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I described how I do it
Yes, but I don't have a heat gun.
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Old 07-26-21, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
Yes, but I don't have a heat gun.
Just be careful with your hands, maybe wear gloves. The chain is around 200 F went it comes out. If you have old athletic socks, they could be used to protect your hands and wipe the chain.
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Old 07-26-21, 02:34 PM
  #81  
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11 sp chains

It's been a while, but I seem to remember 11sp Shimano chains are 'unidirectional', the side plates are shaped differently on the drive side. I installed the first few backwards. There'd have to be an extraordinary amount of crap on the chain to prevent it shifting well on the bigger cogs.
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Old 07-26-21, 02:57 PM
  #82  
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It could also be your derailleur hanger. In general, if your shifting works in the first two-three gears but gets whacky elsewhere, then you adjust that whackiness out only to find it moves elsewhere on the cluster, the issue is often a misaligned (or loose, or both loose and misaligned if it's bolted on) derailleur hanger. Your LBS should have a tool for that. Make sure your rear wheel is relatively true before you bring it in as the tool indicates against the rim It's possible to realign an aluminum hanger, but for best results, just get a new one.
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Old 07-26-21, 03:24 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
I will wipe the chain upon removal from crock pot next time I wax the chain; I suspect the excess wax on the outside is causing my initial shifting problems.
The FD pushes on the outside of the chain, the RD doesn't - how would you propose that excess wax on the outside is causing poor RD shifting? I've never wiped down my chains and I've never had shifting issues outside of the first few minutes of a ride with a fresh chain that's still a little stiff. I think that the mistake that you continue to make is adjusting your RD in the stand. Get it right after a ride, when the chain isn't stiff, and then just stop dicking with your derailleur after installing a fresh chain. You're making this too hard.
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Old 07-26-21, 03:36 PM
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Agreed, it's not rocket science. I've never had a problem with derailleurs getting out of whack from removing or installing chains.
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Old 07-26-21, 04:07 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Ianohian
It's been a while, but I seem to remember 11sp Shimano chains are 'unidirectional', the side plates are shaped differently on the drive side. I installed the first few backwards. There'd have to be an extraordinary amount of crap on the chain to prevent it shifting well on the bigger cogs.
I installed chain with words facing outwards (i.e., to the right) as indicated by the instructions that came with the chain. My initial shifting problem was that the chain refuse to upshift, i.e., drop to the adjacent smaller cog. Each time this happened on a different cog.

Last edited by SoSmellyAir; 07-26-21 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 07-26-21, 04:17 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Ianohian
It could also be your derailleur hanger. In general, if your shifting works in the first two-three gears but gets whacky elsewhere, then you adjust that whackiness out only to find it moves elsewhere on the cluster, the issue is often a misaligned (or loose, or both loose and misaligned if it's bolted on) derailleur hanger. Your LBS should have a tool for that. Make sure your rear wheel is relatively true before you bring it in as the tool indicates against the rim It's possible to realign an aluminum hanger, but for best results, just get a new one.
Originally Posted by WhyFi
The FD pushes on the outside of the chain, the RD doesn't - how would you propose that excess wax on the outside is causing poor RD shifting? I've never wiped down my chains and I've never had shifting issues outside of the first few minutes of a ride with a fresh chain that's still a little stiff. I think that the mistake that you continue to make is adjusting your RD in the stand. Get it right after a ride, when the chain isn't stiff, and then just stop dicking with your derailleur after installing a fresh chain. You're making this too hard.
​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by Mojo31
Agreed, it's not rocket science. I've never had a problem with derailleurs getting out of whack from removing or installing chains.
The same rear derailleur, the same chain, and the same cassette were shifting perfectly for almost 400 miles of riding before I cleaned and waxed the chain, so I doubt it is the rear derailleur hanger. That said, I will just follow WhyFi 's suggestion and refrain from adjusting the rear derailleur next time I wax this chain, and see how it goes.
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Old 07-26-21, 04:20 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
I will wipe the chain upon removal from crock pot next time I wax the chain; I suspect the excess wax on the outside is causing my initial shifting problems. Do I need to be concerned about leaving paper towel lint stuck on the outside? Or should I sacrifice an old T-shirt?
I use a shop towel and some old leather work gloves. I have a heat gun and don't use it on bike chains. I've also noticed that the first couple of waxings on a new chain don't seem to last as long as they do later in the lifecycle.
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Old 07-26-21, 04:23 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by kingston
I've also noticed that the first couple of waxings on a new chain don't seem to last as long as they do later in the lifecycle.
That is good to know. Probably because it is so difficult to remove all factory grease and prior lube in the initial cleaning, such that each subsequent waxing further cleans the chain.
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Old 07-26-21, 07:13 PM
  #89  
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When I used to ride a lot more than I do now, I used to wax chains, especially for off-road. Process was simple.

Grab a heat gun and some scrap board ideally like a fence paling. Heat a small section of chain (say 6") and then rub on a candle. You get a feel for the right amount of heat when you can see the wax melt & get drawn inside the links. Takes <3 mins with minimal gear and setup/cleanup.

Sure it doesn't have the super xyz additive & more than likely the wrong wax but I was happy with the results.YMMV.
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Old 07-26-21, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
I waxed my chain for the first time yesterday and installed it today, and had to re-index my rear derailleur because the chain would not shift from the 3rd to the 4th physically largest cog. I am hoping that this is a one time event and not something I would have to do every time I install a freshly waxed chain.

The chain is a Shimano Ultegra 11 speed chain, with around 300 miles on the factory grease, then mild cleaning with Dawn dish detergent and a Sonicare toothbrush, then rinsed, dried, lubed with Rock N Roll Extreme, and ridden for about 100 miles, all in absolutely dry conditions. The chain (including the quick link) was then cleaned by immersion and shaking in acetone 4 times, including an immersion overnight, and dipped into melted Gulf paraffin wax at 210 *F in a covered Crock Pot on low setting, swished a few times during the first 30 minutes to release all air bubbles. The chain stayed in the Crock Pot for over 2 hours, and chain was measured at 210 *F to confirm that it has reached the equilibrium temperature. The chain was swished a couple more times, then the Crock Pot was turned off and the chain was removed after about 10 minutes and hung to drip; I did not wipe the chain as I was removing it from the wax. The chain was stiff with wax so I ran it around a breaker bar to loosen it and shed the biggest wax chunks prior to installing it onto the bike.

Am I doing something wrong? Thank you.
Good for you to wax. Once you're past the firdt clean/wax, it is unbelievably easy and (almost) never requires rewashing the chain
I'm no guru, but have spent extensive time reviewing zero friction cycling and silca info/instructions and data on why and how to wax. In a nutshell, not doing so costs much money in terms of component (chain, cogs and cassettes) wear, a few watts of lost power, silence from chain noise, and many, at least for me, prior grease marks on my legs.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/
Has all the relevant and easy to understand info.
So to answer your questions, you should have removed the factory grease initially and should use either Silca Secret Blend wax or Molten Speedwax, not paraffin. The friction and wear data is shown at the above website
Good luck
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Old 07-26-21, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bfaIllini
Good for you to wax. Once you're past the firdt clean/wax, it is unbelievably easy and (almost) never requires rewashing the chain
I'm no guru, but have spent extensive time reviewing zero friction cycling and silca info/instructions and data on why and how to wax. In a nutshell, not doing so costs much money in terms of component (chain, cogs and cassettes) wear, a few watts of lost power, silence from chain noise, and many, at least for me, prior grease marks on my legs.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/
Has all the relevant and easy to understand info.
So to answer your questions, you should have removed the factory grease initially and should use either Silca Secret Blend wax or Molten Speedwax, not paraffin. The friction and wear data is shown at the above website
Good luck
funny, that is about all anyone here is using. Gulf Wax from the canning section of your local hardware or grocery store.

Edit: and i should add that it works very well on its own.
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Old 07-26-21, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by spelger
funny, that is about all anyone here is using. Gulf Wax from the canning section of your local hardware or grocery store.

Edit: and i should add that it works very well on its own.
Like I said, I'm no guru, but Adam from Zero Friction Cycling tests waxes for manufacturers and prepares chains for pro teams (as does Josh at Silca) The exhaustive testing shows why both Silca and MSW products are superior to simple paraffin.
It probably doesn't matter to most people, but that's what the data shows.
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Old 07-26-21, 08:45 PM
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maybe i am just ignorant about waxing...the site sells only one brand as far as i can tell so it seems to be it is just an advertisement. and i cannot find anything that states not to use paraffin. also, why would a special wax work only for 10 and 11 speed drive trains?

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/p.../highmilepack/
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Old 07-26-21, 09:55 PM
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A long time (March 2013) Velonews ran a test on 50 chain lubes. Friction Facts' Ultrafast wax mix was one of the lowest friction lubes tested. Friction Facts published this recipe for their ultrafast wax mix:

1 pound of food-grade paraffin wax with a melting point of approx 130F, such as Gulf Paraffin.
5g pure Teflon (PTFE) 3-micron powder. (Available from https://www.howardpianoindustries.com...e-ptfe-powder/)
1g pure Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2) sub-micron powder. (Amazon)

I think most of the commercially available waxes are some variation of this recipe, likely using tungsten disulfide in place of the molybdenum disulfide as this has lower friction.
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Old 07-26-21, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by spelger
funny, that is about all anyone here is using. Gulf Wax from the canning section of your local hardware or grocery store.

Edit: and i should add that it works very well on its own.
I am using Gulf Wax on its own for now. I also bought a kilogram of Silca wax; I figured both Silca and Zero Friction deserve my business after I researched and analyzed their instructions so extensively, but only the former seems to sell in the USA. After my chain has gone through a few rounds of Gulf wax I figured it would be clean enough and my technique would be good enough for me to switch to Silca.
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Old 07-27-21, 06:07 AM
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Lately, when I remove the chain from the hot wax, I wipe it with a paper towel and then install it while it is still warm. This is a lot more convenient than when I let it cool while hanging up. Run it through the gears a few times on the stand and it is ready to go. NO stiff links!
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Old 07-27-21, 06:30 AM
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Some chains are directional and meant to go on a specific way which could account for the shifting issue but I don't think a Shimano Ultegra is such a chain. I have been waxing for years and have never had to make cable adjustments after doing so. It's more likely that removing the chain and taking the tension of the derailleur spring that the cable housing relaxed and did not re seat in quite the same way.
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Old 07-27-21, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by spelger
funny, that is about all anyone here is using. Gulf Wax from the canning section of your local hardware or grocery store.
I've only ever used Molten Speed Wax. I'd seen the home brew formula posted above, but didn't want to bother tracking down and paying for shipping on all the proper ingredients. Besides, the MSW was less than 20 bucks and, more than a year later, half of it is still in the bag, untouched - I'm a-okay with that kind of value for convenience.
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Old 07-27-21, 08:04 AM
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Hi all; I have been waxing the chains on our bikes for a few years now with no problems whatsoever, I heat 1/4 lb of Gulf Wax in a fry pan on a hotplate, swish the chain for about 10 minutes, then hang to let excess wax run off before it solidifies. the chain will be very stiff so I pull it over the bike stand to loosen it up otherwise for the first several miles it won't roll over the jockey wheels easily or shift as nice. I also take a 2" paintbrush and paint the rear cogs with the molten wax. when its time to clean the rear cogs i heat them with a heat gun and the wax and dirt just fall off. I don't re-use the wax, just dump it when done.
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Old 07-27-21, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
Yep, that is why I was really reluctant to use gasoline, or even camping stove fuel, even though other volatile organic solvents are so hard to come by in the South Coast Air Quality Management District, i.e., southern California.
Stop by your local auto parts store and get a can of dipping carburetor cleaner. These usually are in a 1 gallon can and have a basket you can drop the chain in. Used one of these for years to clean bike parts, after the carb cleaner got tired and loaded up I used OMS in it. It was a nice, convenient way to solvent clean the chain (and other bike parts)
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