Keefusb

One of my winter projects will be to rebuild a set of Mavic Open Pro rims with old Shimano RX100 hubs. The current RX100 hubs are really old, and starting to get crunchy despite a recent tear-down, clean, replace bearings, re-grease, and rebuild.

I have a pair of lightly-used Shimano Ultegra Tri-color hubs in really good shape, 32 spokes for the front and 36 in the back. Rims are drilled the same way.

These wheels currently have DT straight-gauge spokes. If I re-use these spokes, I reckon I will want to use new nipples, and be sure that the spokes go back exactly where they were, considering the bends from the current 3x lacing pattern.

Is it acceptable to use the existing spokes, or should I just bite the bullet and replace them with new, double-butted Sapim, DT, or Wheelsmith spokes of the same length? Are double-butted spokes that much lighter and stronger than straight gauge?

SJX426 

I am of the opinion to reuse the spokes even if I prefer db vs straight gauge. If the nipple flats are not rounded, then I reuse them too.
There is a lot of discussion of DB vs Straight, google it.

grumpus

I reuse spokes on some of my builds, in fact I've occasionally bought new wheels with the intention of swapping just the hubs. As long as the they go back in the same position there should be no problem. Butted spokes will build into a slightly stronger lighter wheel, but they're not cheap. Do take care with the hub adjustment though - Shimano hubs particularly seem to tighten appreciably when the quick release is fastened, so bearings that seem properly adjusted will be too tight as soon as they're on the bike.Fasten the QR off the bike (put a few thick washers on each end of the axle) so it's easier to feel the bearing adjustment. Or adjust the bearings until there's a slight sideways play when fitted to the bike, then tighten an eighth turn or less to remove the slack.

Jeff Neese

Are new cones available for the old hubs? If you replaced the bearings the cones would be the next thing to look at. Just in case you wanted to salvage the existing wheels.

FBinNY 

Compared to many here I'm an extremely lazy mechanic. I wouldn't go to the effort of a rebuild unless it was absolutely necessary and I'm not sure it is in your case.

I understand your concern about bearings that don't feel smooth but that really doesn't matter in the scheme of things.

Open up the hubs and eyeball the bearing races both cups and cones. Typically cones wear faster and are generally available.

Even if the race surfaces are fairly pitted, the added friction will be negligible compared to the various sources of drag on a rolling bicycle.

Odds are these wheels have many thousands of miles left in them, especially the front wheel. IME wheels don't die because the hubs failed but because a road hazard killed them.

pdlamb

If it were a new build, I'd go with double butted. But the straight gauge spokes obviously are solid, since they're still in use, so they'll work well too.

On the other hand, since you're talking about something to do over the winter, can you afford another $80 for new butted spokes?

On the other other hand, perhaps just replace the non-drive side spokes on the rear wheel. Affordable enough and you get the main benefit of the db spokes.

What do you want to do?

Iride01 

Crunchy might just be a grain or two of sand that got into the grease. Bearings and races are as hard or harder than sand. It'll be pulverized soon. But I'd probably clean and re-pack the hub bearing and call it a day. While the pulverized sand will be grit to cause it to wear faster, you'll still have plenty of miles if it's not worn out at the present time.

I've never seen a need to re-build my wheels. However I can't see yours, nor can I imagine how you routinely use them, so that's your call.

Koyote

Buy DB spokes if you've got the money, otherwise reuse the straight gauge spokes.

I agree with others about the present hubs probably still being serviceable, but perhaps you've made up your mind on that.

Keefusb

These wheels are about 25 years old, and they were always my foul weather wheels, or the spare wheels I would take with me to crits and road races. They were crunchy last year after a thorough break down, clean out, and re-build with new ball bearings. I told myself then that I would need to put new hubs on them. The cones all looked pretty good but there was quite a bit of pitting in the cups. I will likely re-use the existing spokes unless I get a wild hair and decide to go with DB spokes.

The seals on the old RX100 hubs were not that great compared to Tri-color or DA hubs of the same vintage. I think moisture and grit got into the bearing surfaces and caused the pitting. These wheels pre-dated my exclusive use of Mobil 1 synthetic red grease, which has always worked extremely well for me.

I already have the replacement hubs, so I think I will go ahead and definitely replace the hubs, and perhaps go with DB spokes if I have some extra cash sitting around.

squirtdad

dumb question, but have you checked to see if the spokes are the correct size for the new rib/hub combo?

i think butted give a better build

if you do go new, here is a decent site https://wheelbuildingparts.com/

Keefusb

I believe the hub flanges on the RX100 and the 600 Tri-color are the same, and the rims are not changing so I should be OK. I will double check the hub flanges to make sure.

79pmooney

Huge fan of butted spokes here. Yes, re-using your current spokes will get you back on the road cheaper and with less work. But - going double butted will give you better wheels. Not just lighter and feeling nicer on rough roads. With double butted, you are less likely to have spoke breaking and less likely to have the rims crack at the spoke holes. (I've lost several Open Pros to cracking. Never with a well built wheel and DB spokes.)

You will get the best results using a heavier DB spoke on the right rear and lighter DB on the left rear. That will give you the best balance between spoke tensions while achieving the large dish modern cassettes require. (Forget this if you are building a fix gear, single speed or IGH wheel. I've had great luck building rear fix gear wheels with very light spokes.)

Look at double butted spokes as a long term investment. I built wheels many years ago that I wore out the rims on after 17,000 miles with no other issues at all using 2.0-1.6 DB and 2.0-1.8 DB on the right rear. If I had an identical new rim i could have simply replaced the rim on the same spokes and probably do it again.

Edit: if you do use the same spokes on a new hub, when you un-lace the old, separate the spokes into the four categories, left side pulling, left side static and same for the right and lace the new using the same both pattern and spoke locations. (A case for going new for the new hub. The next time, it should simply be a rim swap. You can tape the new to the old, swap the spokes over, tighten and true. Every spoke sees exactly the loads it saw before.)

79pmooney

I've got several ancient Campy Tipo hubs whose bearings flunk the finger test. I can see scoring on the races. I've stuffed them with marine grease years ago and just rode them. They still run fine. They are my winter front hubs in wet, gritty Portland.) So I've been riding trashed hubs that desperately need cones or the dumpster toss while completely oblivious. I occasionally spin the axle. With that thick grease I cannot feel anything, so I just keep riding them. So far about a decade and a half of "borrowed time". I'll take it.

Keefusb

I have checked the Mavic Open Pro rims for any signs of cracking around the eyelets, and they appear to be clean. The original builder told me he used plenty of grease on the shoulders of the spoke nipples, but that was a long time ago, with many, many miles of cold wet weather.

Iride01 

25 year old wheels. Rim brakes? If you are going to go to the extent of rebuilding everything then maybe consider if the rim braking surface might be near it's EOL. Might just get another rim too. Or find a good deal on new wheels and make your other set of wheels the foul weather wheels.

Certainly you are there and can see them and know what you want. I'm just throwing things out for consideration. Might be entirely irrelevant.

Keefusb

The rims have plenty of braking surface left, they have the Mavic CD Ceramic treatment. Plus, this is as much a wintertime project as anything, and I don't really need another set of wheels at this point.

Bill Kapaun

If the old nipples are the least bit "balky" because of corrosion, splurge for new nipples and wire brush the threads on the spokes to give you a more consistent feel when tensioning back up.
A wire wheel on a bench grinder is nice, but you can get the small ones for Dremel type tools or least favorite, a hand wire brush.
. Just keep the speed down so you aren't launching wire bits into eyes/skin/pets.

t2p

Go with double butted spokes

I had a bike with RX100 components - my first road bike ; the hubs were trash after riding through the winter months / in bad weather ; Ultegra hubs or similar much better

Keefusb

I feel like the aluminium alloy in the RX100 hubs is not as hard/durable as the Shimano Ultegra, Dura Ace, or even 105 hubs. It seems like the seals are not that great either, so moisture and junk gets in there and causes the cups to pit. I have pretty much standardized on the older Shimano 600/Ultegra Tri-color hubs for all of my conventional wheels. They are affordable, they have good seals, they spin fast, and they last a long time. I have a set of Velocity Aerohead wheels built up with Wheelsmith DB spokes and Tri-color hubs. They were built in 2001, and have been going strong ever since with just periodic cleaning, re-greasing, and very minor truing tweaks.

Keefusb

Plus, the Shimano Tri-color hub ratchets are nearly silent. I really hate the hubs that are prevalent these days, it sounds like a swarm of bees when one or more of those go by.

t2p

A wheelset with 105 or 600 hubs and butted spokes will be a significant upgrade over the RX100 hubs with straight gauge spokes

The RX100 hub materials might be of lesser quality ? - probably but not sure - but fairly certain the seals on 105 and 600 are better than RX100 seals

it's been years (decades) since I fooled with that stuff - but I do recall the RX100 hubs were basically trashed after winter riding in bad weather ... I went over the hubs / bearings maybe two times and then finally shelved them

BTinNYC 

I thought my super hub was broken first time I heard it. One of the BF'ers said his hub sounded like a disposall. 😀 😃 🙂

squirtdad

if you can find them the ultegra 7800 are a newish hub that is still pretty quiet

Russ Roth

Why spend the time and energy rebuilding the wheels and reuse spokes that are that old? 25 years old seems to be on the newish side for that hubset, I've lost track of when exactly rx100 became tiagra but it feels it had to be at least 25 years ago. Spokes, more than the rims and hubs, are a fatigue item and they work perfect till they all reach the end of their life span and start failing rapidly one after another requiring a new wheel build. Just my view.

Mr. 66

I thought the RX was the as the 105 but different finish