tcs

Ultralight and/or credit card cycletourists might glean useful something from taking a gander at these 50 set-ups of riders in the TCR, the Transcontinental Race, which is an annual self-supported, ultra-distance (~4000km) bikepacking race across Europe. These riders are not cycletourists under Sheldon Brown's glossary definition of touring, but as self-supported travelers, they have significant overlap with less-is-more tourists. They will be on the road for 10 days ~ two weeks.

Amazingly in these little bags, most are carrying some sort of sleep/shelter system. None seem to be carrying Coleman stoves or Dutch ovens. Lights, check. GPS, most. Dangle mugs: much in abeyance for the TCR. Racks - a few. Panniers? Nopester.

https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2022-t...tal-race-rigs/

"The really successful lightweight camper is one whose pack shrinks every year and whose enjoyment increases in ratio with every vanished ounce." - Brian Walker

GadgetGirlIL

Here are some links that Tourist in MSN shared with me earlier this summer:

https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2022-t...e-rigs-part-1/
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/2022-t...e-rigs-part-2/

So many different options depending on how much you want to carry and how much you want to spend to lighten your load!

indyfabz

Coffee grinder? Check.

Many years ago I gave a local couple who planned to ride from the east coast to CA because they were relocating. Started following them on Crazy Guy. I was shocked to learn their gear included a full size Park Tool frame pump, a large cast iron pan and at least a half dozen books. In their journal they complained about every hill. I sent them messages about alternatives (e.g. Road Morph G pump) but they always had reasons for not ditching the anchors. IIRC, somewhere in OK they got a ride to somewhere in TX and abandoned.

In 2014 I camped in Jackson, MT with a race participant. (The one that uses ACA’s Trans Am route.) He proudly proclaimed that he was not in last place but rather second to last.

Yan 

Yes that's all very nice, but "enjoyment factor increases as weight decreases?" I don't think so.

My tour is my vacation. I'm not going to spend my vacation sleeping under some damp tarp like the homeless, crunching on uncooked ramen and Cliff bars for two weeks straight while stinking in the same two sets of nasty clothes.

Let us be extremely generous and say the hobo setup saves you 30% energy. Ok, now you can take the same amount of energy and ride 160 km per day instead of 120 km. Big whoop, so what?

On the flip side if one is "credit card touring", then why bother taking any luggage at all? The credit card is not just for hotels. Whatever you need on the way, you just buy it, use it, throw it in the trash, and buy it again the next day. Ride across the country on a 14lb setup. Why not?

Tourist in MSN

I was surprised to see as many fenders as I saw on those bikes.

Two Tubus racks.

Four Brooks saddles, but only one leather.

Lots of Tailfin racks.

Interesting to look at, thanks for posting.

waddo

Ultralight and just normal light camping gear is not living like a hobo. Nor does it involve uncooked food etc. Also, nothing to do with distance rode in a day. Those who have experience hiking and backpacking know the value of good equipment suitable for the trip--as do most cycle tourists.

staehpj1

I find that I do indeed find that an unladen bike is a joy to ride and that enjoyment factor does increase as weight decreases for the time while riding. So how it impacts the total experience probably depends on how your time is split between riding, doing other stuff, sleeping, and time spent in camp. I don't tend to value a lot of extra stuff in camp. I don't care about sprawling space in camp I am usually preparing food, eating reading or sleeping. I don't require sprawling space or a lot of extra stuff. I do enjoy a light load, a good sleeping pad, and a good sleeping bag. Those are they keys to comfort for me.

I spend much of my day riding, but do take time to enjoy the scenery and to chat up the local folks and other riders. I also try to enjoy local cuisine when I can. In interesting places I'll take half days off and do side hikes here and there.

I have never done anything I'd call a "credit card tour". I am always baffled when someone equates what I do with credit card touring just because my gear weight is low. I have gone coast to coast on 14 pounds base, mostly camping and cooking with the ocasional motel stop. I didn't pack light because I was in a hurry. I packed light because it is pleasant to ride with a light load. I have also done UL trips with no reliance credit card stays.

Truth be told if I were to do a credit card tour, I may or may not pack any lighter. One approach would be to take pretty much nothing, but on the other hand for a trip like that I might be eating in more nice places and generally doing more off bike stuff and wearing more off bike clothes. So, I just might carry just as much as an UL cammping and cooking trip.

GhostRider62

Backpacking, bikepacking or bike touring light is not hobo lifestyle.

I did the transam trail with just a handlebar bag and Revelate versace. My new setup that I am experimenting with is the Taifin. My tent, bag, and pad weigh under 4 pounds and have been used as low as 17F but 25F is a comfortable limit. The tent is obviously Cuban fibre and the bag is down. My luxury is a full size air mattress, not the narrow and short one. A full 25 x 72 thermarest with an air pillow. I don't yet have a total weight of my new setup but my backpacking setup for 3 seasons is 8-9 pounds depending on the level of comfort I want. Probably 10-12 pounds plus bike. When the gear is light, the bike and wheels do not need to be so surly and heavy. I have toured with 100 pounds and 30 pounds (total including bike) and for me, lighter is better in so many ways. I also stay periodically in hotels to take a real shower, eat good food and wash kit.

staehpj1

Interesting to browse. I was surprised to see such a wide range of rigs. Some were pretty heavy, some pretty light, and everything in between. I'd consider a few heavy or fully loaded touring if they were as much stuff as it looked like. It should be noted that quite a few were not racing and some that were were not too too serious about the racing aspect.

FWIW, while interesting I got very little if any inspiration form any of it.

tcs

Anything here I can learn from? I dunno - old dog, new tricks.

Interesting the near-universal use of frame bags, the return of an idea from cycling's earliest days.




Also, fore-and-aft rigging (handlebar bag, seat packs)



rather than square-rigged (panniers)



an approach to carrying dunnage also suggested by Jan Heine in "The All-Road Bike Revolution" for improved aerodynamics. (I don't ride so fast anymore, but throw me a spanking headwind and my relative velocity through the air can get up there.)

They're carrying gear for an over-the-road trip and they have lots of bags, but there's not a "touring bike" in the lot. Hmph. Modern times.

Tourist in MSN

I backpack, bike tour, do canoe trips, and kayak trips.

If I am carrying the weight on my feet, I strive for much lighter than if I carry my weight on wheels. A few years ago I retired one of my tents from bike tours, as too heavy but I still use that tent for canoe trips as adding some weight to my canoe does not slow it down. I still use a two person tent on bike trips but it is lighter than my old one, but backpacking I use a one person tent.

Those that want to use their backpacking gear on trips where the weight is on the wheels instead of on their feet, I won't say that they are doing it wrong. But I get a little tired of their evangelism. I would not enjoy a bike tour if I only carried what I carry on a backpacking trip.

Some of this ultra light philosophy can be hazardous, I have met bikepackers on trails that had run out of water hours earlier and were badly dehydrated. Once I gave some water to one when he was only about 300 yards away from the campground water supply because i was not sure he could make it that far and still have the strength to pump the pump. He had run out of water the previous day. If you want to do this ultra light thing, try to do it safely and be willing to carry more weight when necessary to be safe.

tcs

But you do enjoy the backpacking. What would you say accounts for the difference?

Universal advice, perhaps? I read journals of cycletouring the Southern Tier where folks run out of water - and some of them are anything but ultralight.

Light dunnage; able to carry plenty of water:

staehpj1

Meh, people can be well or poorly prepared backpacking with 75# of stuff or 15# or stuff. Most of the UL folks I know have taken great pains to optimize their gear and supplies carried. Those folks who haven't come in all persuasions, I have bailed out quite a few of the "everything, but the kitchen sink" folks who carried a lot but didn't plan well.

One must never skimp on the absolute necessities like water, regardless of packing style

I have passed on a number of backpacking routes because I have been unwilling to carry the necessary amount of water and caching was not possible.

BTW, I too carry some of my heavier gear on some canoe trips, but I am so used to my UL gear that I may actually grab it even for some short canoe trips (or ones with long portages) or even sometimes for a car trip. For the car trip I'd be sleeping in the car if the weather was wet or if I wanted to sleep at a roadside rest area. Otherwise, if the weather was nice and the bugs not bad I'd be cowboy camping.

elcruxio

There are a few things I see as issues with ultralighting and bikepacking.

I haven't ever seen the point of going ultralight even when hiking. My backpack weighs 3,3kg empty and I love it that way because it's not flimsy and the frame is excellent. But even on short trips the pack weight gets over 20kg, which I am led to believe is a lot. But to ultralight everything I'd need to buy a whole new set of gear and that's:

1) expensive. UL gear and bikepacking bags tend to be frigging expensive. Cuben fiber or nowdays dyneema fabric or whatever is extremely expensive when compared to say, silnylon. Superlight fabrics with polyurethane coating is a bad idea so full silicon is the way to go. Down is expensive and if you want to optimize you'll want several bags/quilts to be able to take the lightest bag/quilt possible at any given temp range. Same goes with the sleeping pad too. With bikepacking bags it's the same. You need a lot of different bags and the good ones (read, useable ones) are pretty darn expensive.

2) UL gear and bikepacking bags are a bit of a pain.

I like my heavy backpack because it fits a lot of stuff and I don't need to be careful around it. With lightweight backpacks you do need to be mindful of how you handle them or you'll rip or scuff a hole in them. Not immediately of course but over time. UL tents and such are just that, light, ie not very durable when it comes down to it. You need to have a bit of care where you put those things. I learned the hard way that away from other people is usually a good start. UL sleeping pads get holes easily. Those are a pain.

bikepacking bags are like building a hiking backpack out of a small military day pack and strapping dozens of small MOLLE bags everywhere and stashing all your stuff behind the endless zippers, roll tops etc. Very organized of course but also potentially a massive pain, if you want to / need to leave your bike somewhere and take your gear with you (hotel room for example). Also the weight of all those bags adds up and eats up bottle cage space.

There are always compromizes to everything. Panniers won't work offroad, but at least they are simple and easy to handle. Bikepacking bags are the way to go especially off road. No perfect system.

All that said, I use some UL gear occasionally. And bikepacking bags. And panniers. And down. And a tent that's a bit light for its own good. Etc.

Yan 

Thanks for sharing this. I just bought one.

GhostRider62

Almost all of the Evangelists are carry the kitchen sink crowd.

Very tiring.

This thread is about "going light"

Did the go heavy crowd miss that?

Instead, the thread is derailed with hobo comments, people dying for lack of water, and other nonsense. Tablets weight nothing. How many go heavy crowd bring a filter? I have one plus tablets. Lack of planning and knowledge isn't confined to the light or heavy crowd.

elcruxio

That hasn't been my experience. On other websites more often than not the person posting a picture of a four pannier bike has to defend their gear choices as commenters assume said person is inexperienced for taking too much stuff. It used to be that way here too,but it seems to have tempered down significantly.

There's a lot of "you don't need..." kind of mentality with many lighterpackers. But need is relative and it's not always about need but want.

staehpj1

I find that I can get into the UL range without going crazy expensive and without resorting to any Cuben fiber or what not. I do splurge a little here and there but pretty selectively and not really extravagently. When all is said and done I doubt my gear cost much more than the averagre hikers gear and I wouldn;t be surprised if it was less than average.

I use a pack that is probably designed to be used for day hiking, but like it pretty well (REI Flash 30), If I need to take my BV45 bear canister I take the pack's bigger brother (REI Flash 45). I limityself to about the number of days I can handle with the BV45 sinve more than that is more than I choose to carry, Longer than that I either figure out how to resupply or don't do that route.

I have used a variety of improvised systems. I have a bikepacker style seat bag, but have not used it.

Tourist in MSN

Bike touring, I am in civilization most of the time, but some of my bike tours are partly spent in remote areas. In civilization, you are going to grocery stores a few times a week, restaurants, etc. And I often take days off for sightseeing the sites in a historic community. My GAP and C&O tour, that ended with two days in the Smithsonian doing the tourist thing. If you are in civilization, you should act like you are in civilization. I ended my Pacific Coast trip in San Fransisco, spent a couple days checking out Fishermans Wharf, Chinatown, etc. I can't imagine wandering through the Smithsonian wearing bike shoes, jersey and shorts looking like I am on a bike tour.

Backpacking, I am not in civilization, I am walking everywhere with every pound that I have brought. I probably have two shirts, one pair of pants, both are pretty grungy after a week but I do not need to look civilized.

Backpacking, am carrying much lighter food than I carry on a bike tour, almost everything is dehydrated. Bike touring where I am more likely carrying some canned foods and might even carry fresh eggs, then I bring a fry pan along.

Even cooking is different, butane canisters are much lighter so that is what I use backpacking. Touring if I did not fly to my tour, I am using a heavier liquid fuel stove. The one time that I flew with my liquid fuel stove, I wasted so much time trying to make it pristine for the security inspection, I decided never again to fly with liquid fuel stove.

I planned on bike touring in Europe or UK this year, decided not to when Ukraine happened. I am retired, thus I no longer am limited to one week long vacations like before retirement. I find that a five week bike tour is about right, longer and I start thinking about home, shorter and I am not ready to go home.

Backpacking, this year my plan is for about two weeks. Five or six days on the trail, one day off in part for logistics (move vehicle) and resupply. And then another five or six days on the trail. After two weeks I will be ready to come home. One reason for the full day in between is that when I move the vehicle, I then have to ride a bike 30 miles to my start point for the second week. And that full day will be in civilization, thus clean clothes for the brew pub, etc. I expect that to be a full day.

I could bike tour like I backpack, just bring a couple jerseys and a couple shorts, one person tent, do the ultra light thing. I recently bought a Carradice Camper saddle bag for credit card touring, I think that, a large handlebar bag, and a frame bag would work for ultra light bike touring. I am pretty sure I could do that on my road bike with 28 spoke wheels and no racks. With that setup it would be tough to carry much food so I would have to hit the grocery store every other day or maybe every day if I carried much bulk for warm clothing. But I would not enjoy a trip where I am acting like a backpacker if I am in civilization the whole time.

Planning on a nine day canoe trip in the fall. That is on flat water, not white water. No hills to paddle up. More weight in the boat does not slow it down. Carrying my gear across the portages is carrying the weight on my feet, but in nine days the total distance of carrying backpacks on the ground is a single digit in miles, so the weight does not matter much. When I go on those trips, sometimes there is snow, so warm clothing is necessary.

Side note: If my memory is correct, a few months ago you mentioned the tall skinny types of butane canisters. I plan to try some of those on my backpacking trip. I have a couple of adapters for them. I may have more to report later.

cyccommute 

In this thread, I see little of a “zealous advocacy of a cause” by the “kitchen sink crowd”. The “kitchen sink crowd” usually have to justify their choices to the people telling them that they are doing it all wrong. Read some of the gear comments in the link provided and you’ll see people going without even the rudiments of shelter. Thanks, but no thanks.

Yes. Yes, it is. You do you. The rest of us will get by somehow.

Nope. Didn’t miss it. Also didn’t miss the “you are doing it all wrong” vibe and the air of…to use a word you’ve used…evangelism as well.

Perhaps the hobo comments were a bit over the top but, as an experienced tourist, I don’t want to shiver through the night just because I can save some weight by giving up my tent and sleeping bag.

As for water, yes, I carry a filter on backcountry trips. But there are places where filtering isn’t going to be an option nor are “tablets” going to provide clean water. Algal blooms are becoming much more common and great care has to be used when sourcing water. Water filtered from a green pond…of the type you are likely to find all along the Southern Tier…can expose you to toxins from cyanobacteria that can’t be filter or treated out with what you can carry. Filters remove the bacteria and tablets can kill them but neither do anything for removing the toxins which are water soluble.

The same applies to certain water sources in the Intermountain West where mines can drain very toxic chemicals into the water that can’t be detected nor easily removed

StarBiker

Can't do long distance anymore, and camping has zero appeal. Much like this comment that's what I think of combined with a myriad of other unappealing things.

Tourist in MSN

My last canoe trip, I carried my 111B stove and stainless pans. Worked great. Heavy, but weight did not matter. I have never carried it on a bike trip and certainly would not on a backpacking trip. That said, I know for a fact that the stove works well in minus 36 degrees (F), so it would be my first choice on a winter camping trip. This stove was so scraped up that I resprayed it with some engine block temperature resistant paint, looks almost like new again.



I went up to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area every year since the mid 1980s with an old friend of mine from college days. Until 2017, he decided at his age he did not enjoy the trips as much as he used to. (We both were born in 1953, so the same age.) So, I traded my tandem canoe in on a Kevlar solo canoe (Wenonah Prism). Packing cooking gear for one instead of two is a bit different, but only size of pans is different. So, after decades of such trips, I am pretty much accustomed to what to bring on these trips, much more so than bike touring or backpacking.

I backpacked in the rockies in the 1970s (Svea and Sigg Tourist), then did not backpack again until 2010. and have not done that every year, so each trip takes a bit more planning to figure it out.

Tourist in MSN

I met a gal at a campground on a bike trip three years ago, she was using her brand new very light tent, bought on Ebay and shipped from Asia.

I was impressed enough with it, I bought one, tried it out last summer backpacking, photo below.



Worked pretty well. On Ebay or Amazon, it is a Lanshan 1 (model name), there are a few different companies with the same tent but they all use the same model name. Trekking pole type tent, does not come with a pole. I cut a tent pole to use with it. I do not remember exactly what I paid, I think roughly $120 to $130 USD.

That said, it is much smaller than I would want for a bike tour. But backpacking where grams really count, I like it.

Mine, with storage sack, my home made pole, a sheet of plastic for ground cloth, and several extra (better) stakes, weighs 1325 grams. It was much lighter before I added the pole and better tent stakes.

Yan 

You don't have a monopoly on ultra-light products. The kitchen sink guys are also using high end camping gear. The international flights and hotels are the main expenses in touring. I have to stay in a hotel once every few days to shower and do laundry. After a few months those nights really add up. A few thousand dollars for high end gear is chump change in comparison.

What's happening here is that you're taking your 10lb setup and comparing against people who are doing very different tours. When I have a a four pannier setup, that space is not occupied by some random hobby items. There's a gasoline burning liquid fuel stove and a 10F down sleeping bag. The sleeping bag is bulky. That's the entirety of your saddle pack right there. There's a spare tire and chain, small parts, and tools. There's a full set of head to toe rain gear. There's a sweater, a down puffy, fleece long underwear, a knit hat, and winter gloves. The bike has fenders. There's reserved space for multiple days of food and water. All this crap that I'm carrying allow me to do tours that your sub 10lb setup is simply not capable of doing. This is not a matter of opinion or preference. This is a hard fact. When I'm doing a first world country warm weather tour like you, I'm also leaving all the crap at home. I'm not loading up four panniers and 50lb of gear just to ride around the block.

The difference between a 1 and 2 person tent is only 350 grams. For me this small weight gain is acceptable for the additional comfort of a 2 person tent. That's the only truly discretionary weight that I carry. I carry three changes of cycling clothes. I met someone who only carried one set, including just one pair of socks. It was truly disgusting. This is hobo life right here. At some point you have to ask yourself, why am I doing this and who will I impress if I ride a century everyday? The answer is nobody even knows what you're doing, let alone cares. And then you should ask yourself, I got rid of all my worldly possessions so I can ride faster and arrive an hour earlier each day. What am I doing in that hour that makes it worth living like a monk? The answer is nothing. You're not doing anything with that extra hour. You're just sitting on your ass under a tree.

But you are right, there are discretionary items that people choose to carry. A person who is serious about photography will carry a large camera. Someone might need to carry a laptop for remote work. This is where the kitchen sink mentality really starts to come in. What is important to one person may not be for another.

Germany_chris

Please keep in mind everyone has a different threshold for uncomfortable.

I also have a feeling these guys aren't making camp at the end of the day, they're probably just getting a couple or three hours of sleep on the side of the road when they start hallucinating. You pack differently when your maximizing time of the bike and speed over things to see while you're on the bike.