Steel or alloy axles?
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Steel or alloy axles?
I have been looking into rear bicycle hubs, and 99% of them seem to have alloy axles including MTB hubs. So my question is do I need a steel axle or will an alloy axle be adequate for a touring bike?
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There were some reports soon after Shimano changed from the M760 series XT rear hubs (steel axles) to the M770 series (Aluminum axles) of bearing problems on Long Haul Truckers. The Aluminum axle hubs had smaller ball bearings due to the larger size Aluminum axle, it is commonly assumed that the smaller bearings were the problem. I have never owned an Aluminum rear axle hub, my derailleur touring bikes were M760 or M752 hubs with steel axles. I suspect that the typical XT user was a mountain biker with less weight on the rear hub than the typical bike tourist, so that might be why there were not widespread reports of failures on mountain bikes.
This has been a very contentious topic, I am sure that there are opposing views out there.
You are an ultra lightweight rider, use anything you want. I do not think you would have any rear hub problems with the weight you put on the wheel. But, I have run some heavy weight on my rear wheel, I am sticking to steel axles on my derailleur bikes.
This has been a very contentious topic, I am sure that there are opposing views out there.
You are an ultra lightweight rider, use anything you want. I do not think you would have any rear hub problems with the weight you put on the wheel. But, I have run some heavy weight on my rear wheel, I am sticking to steel axles on my derailleur bikes.
#4
Banned
looking at the XTR MTB cross country Race bike parts you would see the light weight winning over Steel durability..
Really large diameters thick and high strength alloys & my Bullseye tandem freewheel hubs work fine. *
Axles in several pieces the core axle and 2 end caps, the bearing cartridges and a spacer as thick as the end caps support the axle.
2 tiny set screws thru the end caps touch the axle core, but, really its the QR skewer that holds it all tight.
the bearings are radial contact and run free without any effect from the end cap pressure , only touching the inside race.
Outside race is of course snugly fitting in the hubshell..
* Previous wheel set With a Phil Wood Freewheel Hub the parts were steel but for the Aluminum Spoke flanges .
The factory would replace the bearings , but it was not field serviceable..
the new PW Co hubs are 'field serviceable'.
Really large diameters thick and high strength alloys & my Bullseye tandem freewheel hubs work fine. *
Axles in several pieces the core axle and 2 end caps, the bearing cartridges and a spacer as thick as the end caps support the axle.
2 tiny set screws thru the end caps touch the axle core, but, really its the QR skewer that holds it all tight.
the bearings are radial contact and run free without any effect from the end cap pressure , only touching the inside race.
Outside race is of course snugly fitting in the hubshell..
* Previous wheel set With a Phil Wood Freewheel Hub the parts were steel but for the Aluminum Spoke flanges .
The factory would replace the bearings , but it was not field serviceable..
the new PW Co hubs are 'field serviceable'.
#5
Banned
As I noted Before : in the shop on a Busy summer touring destination , fancy High end stuff will require a Lay over ,
to get replacement parts shipped and installed If they Break..
as No small town shop will cater to customers with High end tastes, But..
If you keep your bike build parts to a functional Mid range pick ,
the Bike shop would be more likely to have a spare rear wheel already there ,
and can replace the wheel and get you back on the road in a couple Hours ..
Expensive stuff , the same modest wheel can still be supplied,
and Your top line hub will be cut out of the damaged Wheel, & Mailed back to your Home.
to get replacement parts shipped and installed If they Break..
as No small town shop will cater to customers with High end tastes, But..
If you keep your bike build parts to a functional Mid range pick ,
the Bike shop would be more likely to have a spare rear wheel already there ,
and can replace the wheel and get you back on the road in a couple Hours ..
Expensive stuff , the same modest wheel can still be supplied,
and Your top line hub will be cut out of the damaged Wheel, & Mailed back to your Home.
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And unlike you, I know why:
- because lots of people tolerate it. As lots of people on these forums tolerate imprecise language overall.
Which does not sit well with me. Hence my request for clarification - in an attempt to change this behaviour.
#9
Banned
Pedantic ? Shouldn't you be working instead of posting here ..
https://cleanmemes.com/wp-content/upl...antsRevolt.jpg
to really get into fussy specifics state the Nomenclature for the specific Metal
7005, 7075 , 6065.. aluminums ... 4130 or 1017 steel etc..
Materials not wanker English Majors showing off.
https://cleanmemes.com/wp-content/upl...antsRevolt.jpg
to really get into fussy specifics state the Nomenclature for the specific Metal
7005, 7075 , 6065.. aluminums ... 4130 or 1017 steel etc..
Materials not wanker English Majors showing off.
Last edited by fietsbob; 04-01-16 at 12:03 PM.
#10
apocryphal sobriquet
There were some reports soon after Shimano changed from the M760 series XT rear hubs (steel axles) to the M770 series (Aluminum axles) of bearing problems on Long Haul Truckers. The Aluminum axle hubs had smaller ball bearings due to the larger size Aluminum axle, it is commonly assumed that the smaller bearings were the problem. [...].
For some reason the bike industry by-and-large has decided to call aluminum "alloy" in regards to bike parts e.g. alloy frame, alloy rims, alloy axle, etc.
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I have XT aluminum, and steel axle LX hubs. I have about 6,000 miles of loaded touring on the aluminum axles. On one tour part of our route took us over 400 miles of gravel and unsurfaced roads, and also over 500 miles of cobblestone/ sett stone roads and trails. No problems at all. There is probably a total of 11-12000 total miles on the aluminum axles.
The difference in the bearings is the number and the size of the balls. The steel axle hubs use 9- 1/4" balls, while the aluminum axle hubs use 13-3/16" balls. I'm not sure what those differences mean, if any, in in terms of durability and performance.
I also think there is a lot of "urban rumor", but very little first hand experience with these hubs failing.
P.S. I'm sorry J.C. Koto, our posts must have crossed out in the ozone. You are one of the few I've actually heard of having firsthand experience. What was the nature of the failure?
The difference in the bearings is the number and the size of the balls. The steel axle hubs use 9- 1/4" balls, while the aluminum axle hubs use 13-3/16" balls. I'm not sure what those differences mean, if any, in in terms of durability and performance.
I also think there is a lot of "urban rumor", but very little first hand experience with these hubs failing.
P.S. I'm sorry J.C. Koto, our posts must have crossed out in the ozone. You are one of the few I've actually heard of having firsthand experience. What was the nature of the failure?
Last edited by Doug64; 04-01-16 at 08:14 PM.
#12
apocryphal sobriquet
Like I said, the manufacturing issue has almost certainly been fixed by now but once bitten twice shy and all that..
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I have been on this forum for 9 years, and have noticed this as well.
And unlike you, I know why:
- because lots of people tolerate it. As lots of people on these forums tolerate imprecise language overall.
Which does not sit well with me. Hence my request for clarification - in an attempt to change this behaviour.
And unlike you, I know why:
- because lots of people tolerate it. As lots of people on these forums tolerate imprecise language overall.
Which does not sit well with me. Hence my request for clarification - in an attempt to change this behaviour.
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I am a geological engineer, before I retired I held the professional engineer license with the mining engineer specialty. In other words, I know something about metals. But, if someone does not consider steel to be an alloy, I don't let it bother me. I do not have time to let things like that bother me, life is simpler that way.
#15
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I have been on this forum for 9 years, and have noticed this as well.
And unlike you, I know why:
- because lots of people tolerate it. As lots of people on these forums tolerate imprecise language overall.
Which does not sit well with me. Hence my request for clarification - in an attempt to change this behaviour.
And unlike you, I know why:
- because lots of people tolerate it. As lots of people on these forums tolerate imprecise language overall.
Which does not sit well with me. Hence my request for clarification - in an attempt to change this behaviour.
Why not just help and then offer up some info on how alloy could apply to multiple metals?
#17
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I solved this "issue" by getting PW hubs from ebay - brand new never laced... Never have had any concern.
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excuse me but I was told that i would never need my high school Latin on this forum
Last edited by robow; 04-01-16 at 01:25 PM.
#19
aka Timi
Steel or alloy axles?
Wassa problem? Alloyminium innit?
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However, you may want to learn that there is nothing imprecise in using "forums" as it is a perfectly valid plural form of "forum", and is in fact the more popular one in English-speaking countries.
Unless you are a Latin purist.
In which case, you better get over it soon - otherwise you may get easily upset every time you visit this site. The late Tom Stormcrowe, may he rest in peace, was not the smartest person on the planet, but he made no mistake when he named the site "bikeforums".
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"Alloy" (alternately "light alloy") has been shorthand for "aluminum alloy" in many products since at least the 1950s, and probably earlier. Anyone who wants to go around correcting people who use this colloquialism should get over themselves.
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a high end steel axle rear hub (for a MTB 10 speed cassette), and very good seals. For disc brakes.
I have also noticed the SON28 front hub has Steel axles in all its variants, except is center lock disc rotor variant. Does it matter for front hubs?
I have also noticed the SON28 front hub has Steel axles in all its variants, except is center lock disc rotor variant. Does it matter for front hubs?
Last edited by azza_333; 04-01-16 at 06:14 PM.
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a high end steel axle rear hub (for a MTB 10 speed cassette), and very good seals. For disc brakes.
I have also noticed the SON28 front hub has Steel axles in all its variants, except is center lock disc rotor variant. Does it matter for front hubs?
I have also noticed the SON28 front hub has Steel axles in all its variants, except is center lock disc rotor variant. Does it matter for front hubs?
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...8&category=740
#24
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My, my, what depth of linguistic prowess...
However, you may want to learn that there is nothing imprecise in using "forums" as it is a perfectly valid plural form of "forum", and is in fact the more popular one in English-speaking countries.
Unless you are a Latin purist.
In which case, you better get over it soon - otherwise you may get easily upset every time you visit this site. The late Tom Stormcrowe, may he rest in peace, was not the smartest person on the planet, but he made no mistake when he named the site "bikeforums".
However, you may want to learn that there is nothing imprecise in using "forums" as it is a perfectly valid plural form of "forum", and is in fact the more popular one in English-speaking countries.
Unless you are a Latin purist.
In which case, you better get over it soon - otherwise you may get easily upset every time you visit this site. The late Tom Stormcrowe, may he rest in peace, was not the smartest person on the planet, but he made no mistake when he named the site "bikeforums".
I really think you should butt out of the thread unless you have something worthwhile to contribute other than sniping.
For my part, we have XT hubs with aluminium (yep, that's what it's called in Australia and just about everywhere else in the world except the US) axles and haven't had any issues thus far after extensive sealed and gravel road riding in various places around the world. I sometimes fret about them after reading the issues when I first got them, but it's only been fleeting. I will however be interested to see what they are like inside when I first break them open in several 10s of thousands of kilometres from now...
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My, my, what depth of linguistic prowess...
However, you may want to learn that there is nothing imprecise in using "forums" as it is a perfectly valid plural form of "forum", and is in fact the more popular one in English-speaking countries.
Unless you are a Latin purist.
In which case, you better get over it soon - otherwise you may get easily upset every time you visit this site. The late Tom Stormcrowe, may he rest in peace, was not the smartest person on the planet, but he made no mistake when he named the site "bikeforums".
However, you may want to learn that there is nothing imprecise in using "forums" as it is a perfectly valid plural form of "forum", and is in fact the more popular one in English-speaking countries.
Unless you are a Latin purist.
In which case, you better get over it soon - otherwise you may get easily upset every time you visit this site. The late Tom Stormcrowe, may he rest in peace, was not the smartest person on the planet, but he made no mistake when he named the site "bikeforums".