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Dogs.

Old 07-11-21, 05:51 AM
  #51  
downhillmaster
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Originally Posted by Bearhawker
I got taken out by a young Doberman while I was doing 40 km/h and accelerating. That's a solid 25 mph.

The dog ran parallel to me in a field across the road for 1/4 km (~820 feet, 273 yards), came out a driveway, crossed the road and impacted me around the pedals. I didn't see it (although my helmet camera captured it nicely) until the point of impact.

Collapsed lung, 9 ribs fractured in 15 places, unknown brain trauma (lost consciousness at least twice)

Pepper spray isn't allowed here. Bear spray is expressly prohibited - no bears here. Dog spray is a grey area - sort of legal but you can be charged and convicted under bizarre "weapon for unlawful purposes" or "weapon dangerous to the public". Simply put it is illegal in Canada to carry anything for the purpose/intent of self defense***. You may use a weapon for self defense but you cannot bring something along... compounded by the fact that cops/judges will decide after the fact if the force used was acceptable under the circumstances. Even if you win the fight you will likely be broke. fun!

*** certain cases are allowed IE: bear spray if in the woods where bears are known/expected to be. Carry it downtown in a big city and you have no defense. Dog spray *might* be allowed (again, you'll never know until it's too late) in some circumstances. Doesn't matter if you bought it legally - it may or may not be legal to have on you or use

Fun fact - if you use something like pepper/dog/bear spray against a person the charge/penalty is essentially the same as shooting them. IE: you're probably off to jail and even if you do successfully defend yourself you will be made an example of via the "punishment by process" approach to justice we have here.

On a local level, the authorities here do not consider any negative interactions with dogs to be an "attack" unless/until you have punctures in your skin from the animal. My last negative interaction was when walking on the road - a large GSD type dog came charging out of its yard, teeth bared, snarling and barking. Fearing for my safety I held it off for way longer than I wished the confrontation to go on for with a pocket knife. The dog kept circling and fake-lunging but never got close enough to get cut. Dog owner eventually got control of the animal,I put my pocket knife back in my pocket, we exchanged poorly-chosen words in the heat of the moment and I went on my way. Shortly after I got home the cops arrived with the intent to arrest me for uttering threats while holding a weapon. They were told I went on to their property and attacked their dog then threatened them.

Eventually the cops agreed it didn't make sense that I would randomly set out to attack an unfamiliar dog, that I didn't even know existed, owned by people I had never seen or heard about previously.

So what you do - or even can do - depends on where you are, who you are and all sorts of other circumstances. In my most-recent cycling/dog incident I was going 40km/h (25mph) and still got tagged. No way I could have out-sprinted that dog even if I had seen it in time. Perhaps I could have sprayed it with something. Maybe I could have fought it off if I stopped. Maybe I'd be arrested for killing a dangerous dog... and broke defending myself.

I'm still more likely to get tagged by a drunk driver.

And I keep riding.
I would like to see a couple examples of any cyclist being sued, losing in court, and paying a large settlement in any of the above referenced situations.
Anything is possible ofc but I always get a kick out of the ‘don’t do anything because you can get sued’ mentality.
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Old 07-11-21, 07:14 AM
  #52  
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Maybe you missed the part where I *literally* almost got arrested just for holding off a dog from actually attacking me with a knife? The cops were in my yard and told me they were there to arrest me.

Had the dog bitten me and I had killed/injured it in self defense i would absolutely had been arrested. Even if eventually found not guilty of anything, it would have cost me at least $10k to get to that point. That's just the financial cost: there would be tangible work/marriage/other damage that a price could not be put on.

Here in Canada getting sued is the least of our concerns. It's the "justice" system that is the real problem - once the cops are involved *everyone* is a bad guy and punished by process if not by penalty. Sad really.
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Old 07-11-21, 09:00 PM
  #53  
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There was a house that had 3 dogs just down the hill from us. Being rural the owners let the 3 dogs run wild. Owners did not speak english. I called that lonely tiresome stretch of hill “dog hill”. The dogs would harass me everytime and I was typically cranky and tired but one time the 3 dogs got to my patience level. First one I lined up, I withdrew my foot from the clip/strap and snap kicked a bullseye to his snout. The dog did a back flip and tumble rolled. I laughed that 3/4mi homestretch remaining. No more dog problems.

Another route there was an aged golden retriever that came to the edge of his yard/field and ran alongside side of me woof, woofing the 150yds of his boundary. I enjoyed talking to that one. I think he enjoyed the company.
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Old 07-12-21, 02:03 AM
  #54  
downhillmaster
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Originally Posted by Bearhawker
Maybe you missed the part where I *literally* almost got arrested just for holding off a dog from actually attacking me with a knife? The cops were in my yard and told me they were there to arrest me.

Had the dog bitten me and I had killed/injured it in self defense i would absolutely had been arrested. Even if eventually found not guilty of anything, it would have cost me at least $10k to get to that point. That's just the financial cost: there would be tangible work/marriage/other damage that a price could not be put on.

Here in Canada getting sued is the least of our concerns. It's the "justice" system that is the real problem - once the cops are involved *everyone* is a bad guy and punished by process if not by penalty. Sad really.
More drama but still no examples of it actually happening.
Thanks!
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Old 07-12-21, 05:38 AM
  #55  
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Slam on the brakes, get on their tail, roar at them, and chase them off the road. On the next encounter, they will recognize your dominance and treat you with respect.
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Old 07-12-21, 01:56 PM
  #56  
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OK. I have been bitten 2 times and chased, well I have lost count. After the second bite with the owner declaring that his dog has been in this neighborhood longer than me, I decided that was the last straw. Forget my Strava data and if there is a next time, stop and call 911 and let the animal people handle it with Police report. That was like 4 years ago and have not been bit since. Holding my breath though. Chased is another matter.

I have also hit a chasing dog. T-boned him as he attempted to bite my front wheel. After I nailed him and somehow managed to remain upright, I looked down and my front rim was bent. Still rideable, but bent. I turned around to find the mutt and then knock on some doors. I turn around and can't quite figure out where the dog came from as the street was now clear of him and all the children. I had an idea but I was not going to knock on a bunch of doors. I just finished my ride on a bent rim.

The only thing I have found that has saved me time and time again is using my water bottle. Dogs hate getting sprayed in the face, so for me, it has worked wonders. The main thing for me is to know your surroundings if you can. I have many routes from the house and I know exactly where spot is hiding and waiting. At least most times I do. So I am aware to the potential problem and I usually pull my gun out of its holster early so I am ready for action. The negative part of using your water bottle is that it is a waste of precious water. Nothing worse on a longer ride to have to waste half a bottle on a dog. My bottles and drinking are very planned out and I don't have much to spare so that presents another problem.

All I can say is that for me, the water bottle is the best thing. Pepper spray, although is works very well is very dependent on windage. If you spray that stuff you better hope the wind is at your back cause it will get in your eyes and or sinus cavities and that does not mix well. Believe me, I know from spraying bear repellant off my front porch just to try it out. That was not a Mensa moment and I could never imagine using it on a bike since there is always wind of some sort.

Basically, try and know the areas where you ride and the dogs that are nearby. Prepare and use the water bottle. It has been a winner for me.

john
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Old 07-15-21, 10:50 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Bearhawker
Maybe you missed the part where I *literally* almost got arrested just for holding off a dog from actually attacking me with a knife?
My dogs are old, and don't have any teeth. Still, we don't give them knives to attack people with.
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Old 07-15-21, 11:06 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Bearhawker
Maybe you missed the part where I *literally* almost got arrested just for holding off a dog from actually attacking me with a knife? The cops were in my yard and told me they were there to arrest me.

Had the dog bitten me and I had killed/injured it in self defense i would absolutely had been arrested. Even if eventually found not guilty of anything, it would have cost me at least $10k to get to that point. That's just the financial cost: there would be tangible work/marriage/other damage that a price could not be put on.

Here in Canada getting sued is the least of our concerns. It's the "justice" system that is the real problem - once the cops are involved *everyone* is a bad guy and punished by process if not by penalty. Sad really.
Originally Posted by downhillmaster
More drama but still no examples of it actually happening.
Thanks!
Yeah, the thing here is the cops came to arrest you Not for defending yourself against a dog attack, but for threatening to attack a dog owner with a knife.

Some places I have lived, SWAT might have responded to that call. (The poor guys don't have much to do, despite what TV tells us. )

The real deal is, the cops came to arrest you based on a false police report, but they were reasonable and thought through your explanation. Some places I have lived, you are face down on the hood of the cruiser in cuffs before they listen to anything you say.

If you don't like Canada, I hear there is a large nation due south where maybe you might like it better? You won't have to worry about not having to pay for health care, and cops will shoot you for no reason .... Much better than Canada.

But I guess there are bad people with bad dogs everywhere.
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Old 07-24-21, 06:13 PM
  #59  
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Over the decades, I've had countless encounters with dogs, maybe 1,000 (?). Where I live now, pit bulls are the dog of choice. Anymore, I refuse to be chased, which is a good way to either get bit or wreck. And why would I run? I'm doing nothing wrong. So when a dog comes out, I just stop and hold it off with my eyes. No yelling, no emotion - I am alpha dog and not scared of him/her. Sooner or later they realize the best way to get rid of me is to let me leave.
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Old 09-05-21, 03:31 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by IronM
Over the decades, I've had countless encounters with dogs, maybe 1,000 (?). Where I live now, pit bulls are the dog of choice. Anymore, I refuse to be chased, which is a good way to either get bit or wreck. And why would I run? I'm doing nothing wrong. So when a dog comes out, I just stop and hold it off with my eyes. No yelling, no emotion - I am alpha dog and not scared of him/her. Sooner or later they realize the best way to get rid of me is to let me leave.
Interesting strategy. Dogs do feed off emotion so keeping yourself cool and staring it down makes sense. Will have to try that next time, if I have the nerve.

My dog story: Was heading through a residential neighborhood at about 18 MPH when I heard the unmistakable sound of claws running on asphalt. I immediately knew it was a dog in hot pursuit even though it was behind me and gaining. I knew I could hit the high 20s, so got out of the saddle and powered it. Thankfully, After about 10 seconds the sound of the clicking started to fade away. I turned my head to see the culprit and there was nothing. Phantom dog?
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