Originally Posted by 350htrr

You get to pick the number... IF, you have an E-Assist, with a pressure sensor in the crank or the axel. If you don't then you get the % of assist that the motor puts out on whatever level you have it set to and your input is not considered in any way except for having to rotate the crank, (rotation sensor) you don't actually need to put any "pressure" onto the pedals . Then there is the throttle, you don't even have to pretend to pedal...

On my set up I have 4 levels, level 1=35%, level 2=75%, level 3=150%, level 4=300%, what that means is... When I put in lets say 1lbs or 10lbs of pressure onto the pedals, I will get...
Level 1; 1lbs=0.35lbs of assistance, 10lbs=3.5lbs of assistance up to a max of 6.6lbs of assistance.
Level 2; 1lbs=0.75lbs of assistance, 10lbs=7.5lbs of assistance up to a max of (cant find the number)
Level 3; 1lbs=1.50lbs of assistance, 10lbs=15.0lbs of assistance up to a max of (can't find the number)
Level 4; 1lbs=3.00lbs of assistance, 10lbs=29.5lbs of assistance as that is the max assistance number. I would not get the 30.0lbs...
ALL levels; I MUST put pressure onto pedals to go anywhere... Just like a bicycle... Whenever I ride and am going faster than 32Km/Hr, I am the only motivating force on my bicycle.


Depending on the "type of E-Bike" some of them have so much rotation resistance from the motor that you can't really even pedal them on your own, even when you want to or need to if the battery runs out... On my set up I can, and do, ride my E-Assist bike as a regular bicycle whenever I want...

Originally Posted by raria

I'm sure yourself and other people in this forum will not get into trouble on an e-bike. But I started this thread to focus on the many people who are the opposite of you. People who arent educated about ebikes or riding in general but still ride them.

Maybe a fruitful discussion would be on what could be on the license test? And who would need to take the test?

Originally Posted by tn_roadie

People for Bikes, which is an industry funded group, is pushing model legislation across the U.S. It defines three classes of e-bikes. Class 1 is a pedal assist up to 20 MPH, Class 2 is throttle up to 20 MPH, and Class 3 is pedal assist to 28 MPH. It clarifies they are to be treated as bicycles and can use all bike infrastructure, on and off street.

People for Bikes

Originally Posted by raria

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/87-...years-old.html

Not surprisingly, they are seeing the effects of e-bikes before the US.

Surprisingly, they limit motors to 250w and they top out at 15.5mph.

Originally Posted by raria

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/87-...years-old.html

Not surprisingly, they are seeing the effects of e-bikes before the US.

Surprisingly, they limit motors to 250w and they top out at 15.5mph.

Originally Posted by 350htrr

and.. we should learn from that... Here in N America. I, said 350 watts 20MPH and no throttle, with 7 year's of experience riding an "E-Bike"... and they, they say 250 watts 15.5MPH... With a whole lot more experience then I, They, recognise that regulating the manufacturer, not the operator, is the way to go, for keeping an E-Bike a bicycle...

Originally Posted by daihard

I generally support a 25 km/h (15.5 mph) limit on power assist, though in North America, it may not be adequate for riding with traffic, which you often have to do in order to ride safely. People in the Netherlands don't have the same problem.

Originally Posted by 350htrr

That is 100% true... BUT, what IS, a bicycle... When you start to compete it with cars... The bicycle will loose 100% of the time, unless you are very consciously WANT to ride a bicycle, with a bit of assist, not a moped...

Originally Posted by daihard

I understand what you're saying. To me, it's not so much about competing with cars as about being comfortable riding with cars. I feel comfortable riding at 15-20 mph among cars (i.e. while taking the full lane).

Originally Posted by 350htrr

and, there in lies the overall "fail" eventually of the "E-Bike" as it has been set up here in the N American continent... It has morphed into, A MOPED, in a word, and the same thing will befall it (E-Bikes) as with the MOPED, eventually, things catch up in the regulatory system and... MOPEDS are now licenced/insured vehicles, their reign as a "pretend bicycles" has ended. ... Why not keep the assist low enough, and slow enough, to run "under" the radar so to speak... as was originally INTENDED... sales,.. and more sales... I suspect...

Originally Posted by daihard

I think it depends on the environment in which to ride e-bikes, too. In the Netherlands, where people typically ride at an average speed of 12 mph (or less) in safely segregated bike infrastructure, a limit of 15.5 mph will be sufficiently fast. Here, OTOH, people often have to ride faster (15+ mph) in order to ride safely (i.e. not necessarily to compete against cars), which would make a higher power assist limit of, say, 20 mph more adequate. And we're talking about bikes with power assist, which cuts off at the governed speed. For that reason, I can see how Class-3 e-bikes (power assist up to 28 mph) can make the line between bikes and mopeds blurry.

Originally Posted by 350htrr

and.. I can see the difference between me pedalling at lets say 250Watts, going all out, and the difference riding a horse at 750Watts doing nothing but staying in the saddle... NOT, the same thing... a vehicle is a vehicle above a certain speed, (meaning a powered vehicle)… Horse powered or human powered is totally different. The main reason this E-bike thing got started was to get more people onto bicycles with a (little bit of help)... NOT MOPEDS... as it seems to have ended up, even tho today they still look like bicycles. IMO. Powered vehicle should need a license, assisted vehicles should NOT... You know, like wheel chairs...

Originally Posted by MikeyMK

Seems to me that this topic was created by someone who doesn't ride an e-bike, or even a bike at all. It's interesting to see the comments though, again, mostly by people who have no e-bike experience.

I'd like to put a point in, here; e-bikes are typically slower than regular bikes.

There's absolutely nothing exceptional about a bicycle doing 20mph (e-bikes are limited to 15.5 here in the UK and EU - including the vinyards of France). So the argument that more people are going out and actively learning how to survive life is flawed.
I recon i'd done more than 20mph by the time i was 7yo on my first geared bike.

What do we licence next, rock climbing shoes?

Originally Posted by prathmann

If this were the case, i.e. all three classes treated the same as unpowered bicycles, then there would be no need to distinguish the three classes. If you look at their proposed legislation, they recommend that by default Class 1&2 are allowed on bike paths and MUPs while Class 3 is not although in both cases the local authorities can pass ordinances reversing the default position. They also propose that Class 3 have a minimum age requirement and a MHL.

Originally Posted by tn_roadie

Licensing and registering any kind of bike is a slippery slope.

Originally Posted by KraneXL

You'd need to maintain at least a constant 30 mph to ride safely in traffic. Personally, I would never ride in traffic because motorist quickly adapt to the expectation of you being able to keep up. Not recognizing that unlike their vehicle, a human being's capacity to maintain that speed quickly declines with time and distance. Especially at the rate of energy expenditure (90-100%) needed to achieve and maintain that speed.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm

Most passenger sedans have top speeds ~120 mph on level ground. This is partly a byproduct of the excess potential that is left over from the requirement that said vehicle be able to lift its weight plus payload over 6% gradients at a reasonable rate of speed. Even on the Interstate what percent of road users exploit that potential at any one time? What about in town? What percent of urban drivers regularly exceed even 55mph in residential areas? I will agree that it is necessary to limit bicycles to 20mph top assisted speeds when passenger sedans have electronic limiters that prevent them from exceeding posted speeds in urban or residential areas. When we are trying to beat a stale green light to the yellow on our morning commute me and mine can easily get our tandem to 25mph in a few seconds and hold that speed long enough to do plenty of damage to pedestrians or other cyclists or private property. But we do not. Because we aren't crazy or possessed of a death wish. Why do people imagine that because an e-assisted bike can reach a speed of 28 mph, that its rider will, at the first opportunity, ram it into an 85 y.o. pedestrian at speed, killing him instantly? Why do people imagine that requiring the cyclist to have a license will prevent this? Does the requirement for licenses prevent motorists from ... from the things they do?

Originally Posted by KraneXL

License aren't designed to make you a perfect rider/driver. Rather, their purpose is insure that you understand the basics of safely operating these machines, know your responsibilities, and if necessary, to have a way to track and penalize any individuals that violates or ignore those safety standards.

Bikes are 100% human powered. Anything beyond that (with a motor/engine) is something different and should be categorized as such.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm

So explain how that will apply to e-bikes. Written tests? Road tests? Really? How many cars are tracked by their licenses after a wreck? Admit it. No one has really thought this through. Just a knee jerk reaction to what looks like some people getting away with something.