surak

Well they've signed Remco for 5 more years, Alaphillipe for 3, and now Asgreen for 3 as well. Meanwhile Sagan is showing he's still competitive by being in the peloton last stage at the Tour de Romandie, to the surprise of the Eurosport presenters who almost couldn't believe who "the other Bora rider" was besides Kelderman over the last climb.

I still don't see how the money can work to afford him given he's showing that he's far from finished, especially with existing commitments to 3 younger guns and then decisions on their remaining slew of promising talent (if they don't get poached by the deep pocketed Skineos or UAE). Almeida, van Sevenant, Cavagna, Cattaneo, I'm sure I'm forgetting some others who have been impressing and improving.

GrainBrain

... Honorè, Masnada, Cérny, Knox ...

Yeah I laughed too when the announcers realized who it was, plus they just were calling him "you know who"

surak

OK now the tide is swinging more toward Sagan to DQS being a real possibility. Lefevere saying they can't resign Almedia or Bennett (cue funny but accurate quote from another forum: "sprinters leave Quick Step to die"). Although on GCN/Eurosport's Giro post-stage show today they were speculating that Lefevere could be playing the media to drum up more sponsor money or as a negotiation tactic against the riders' agents.

diphthong

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sam...f-2021-season/

diphthong

if dqs adds sagan, can you imagine the fearsome one-days/classics lineups they'd be fielding? they're already intimidating as it is.

one4smoke

Think maybe that's why Bennett is leaving? The rumors about Sagan may be true?

slcbob

I think it is the other way around. Bennett is chasing a payday which LeFevre can't / won't provide. Him moving on is opening up the potentially Sagan-sized space.

They say sprinters leave Quick Step to die. We'll see what happens to Bennett.

diphthong

working on a little theory here...stay with me...dqs (and previous incarnations the last 15 years or so) has morphed from a mostly classics team
into a team that now cannot be discounted in any road race/stage race anywhere. the team is a veritable bag of swiss army knives. take a look at nearly
any rider on their roster and very few specialize in just one thing. most are good at two things at least and some are good at well more than that: sprinting on the flats,
sprinting for uphill finishes, mountain goats, classics monsters, short tt's, longer it's, flat it's, hilly it's, reliable diesel engines, shorter stage races, gt's. they may have realized
that the budgetary constraints for a pure/purish sprinter whom contests fewer stages/races than someone like a sagan is a financial and reduced flexibility
liability. sagan may not have that burst/magic he used to have but he's still super competitive in flat sprints (usually in the top ten), uphill sprints (usually in the top 6 or so)
and in the one day's/classics/classics-styled stages in stage races. that's a ton of races/stages he can contest or force the issue so that a teammate can benefit.
likely more than a bennett can do (love bennett btw...). if the price is roughly the same...which choice do you make? dqs is going for versatility.

and now...with dqs finally having a few decent gt guys, their biggest problem is figuring out when and how to send guys or not and stay in support roles in stage races.

diphthong

bennett will land on his feet. he's still arguably the straight-up fastest. gaviria and viviani haven't rocked the free world lately among other sprinters. uae prob doesn't have the budget left
and we know he's not going to ineos or probably team jv but there are a few other teams that might. don't remember movistar or astana having a killer sprinter in like forever. maybe one of the
french teams make a play since it's been tough sledding there...

slcbob

^ I hope the best for Bennett. As for whether he lands on his feet or not (I hope we does), it depends upon whether those feet land on platform with a sprint train. He needs a train.

Of all the B list World Tour teams, to me the one that has been making strong showings in finales of flat stages of late without closing the deal at the very end is Cofidis. Perhaps Sam will go the way that Elia did, without, one hopes, going the way that Elia did.

ISUN did a few good runs for Greipel in Turkey, too, but it's tough to say that would have played in fiercer competition.

surak

On yesterday's World of Cycling that's on GCN+, Conor Dunne said that Bennett wants to keep riding Specialized. Not sure if that's inside intel from having the Irish connection, but then it could mean either Bennett going back to Bora or Specialized pulling their Bora sponsorship and switching to a different team. I could see it happening- without Sagan at Bora, Spec's not getting much out of funding them, certainly not to the extent of exposure they get from DQT and SD Worx.

surak

Sagan's price ain't going to come down, but Bennett ain't gonna be able to leave and bring along [the best in the biz] leadout man Morkov, who has extended with DQT through 2023. Whether Bennett could poach any of his leadout train was another thing they speculated about on GCN+/Eurosport.

Bennett can still rake in the bucks, but it's not looking great for him to keep his winning ways if he gets his payday and follows the trajectories of Viviani, Gaviria, Kittel...

diphthong

dqs does have a helluva lead out train. so if they do sign sagan, do you think they make enough of a difference to place him as first or second in the flattish/straight up sprints vs 3-6 finishing position? if it’s an uphill/classics finish, he’s still got the goods.

surak

If they sign him, for sure they'll have a plan around how to best utilize him. I don't think of him as a pure sprinter though, so I still expect they need to drop the faster guys whenever possible even with a leadout. But I could be underestimating just how effective that train is, they sure make whoever's the main sprinter on the day look strong.

MinnMan

I'm probably just repeating what others here have already said, but the most powerful sprinters over the last few years (Bennett, Viviani, Kittel, Cavendish) really only dominate when they have a superior leadout. All the watts in the world don't put you in the position to use them. Sagan is sort of the exception - when he was in his prime, he did great surfing other people's leadouts. That sense of timing and the agility to get in the right position is not the same skill as the pure sprinters power and I haven't seen anybody else on the scene who has had it in recent years.

Sagan is still good, but not the amazing force he was 3-5 years ago. I'm not sure what the dynamic will be for him at DQS.

As for Bennett, unless he signs on with a team that really supports him with the right leadout guys, I don't see him dominating in coming years the way he did this spring. He'll miss DQS, as others have before him.

MinnMan

This may not be the right place for this additional comment, but Gavira has made error after error during the Giro. Horner has called him out for it. I don't recall these kinds of problems when he was at Quick Step. Better coaching at (D)QS?

diphthong

successful sprinters in the last two decades w/o leadout trains or a dedicated guy or two are few and far between. friere and mcewan are
two guys coming to mind that, by necessity, had to use the leadout trains/guys of other sprinters with the occasional win.

liked gaviria's go for it attempt the other day (stage 7?) where ewan had to pull gaviria back by himself before getting the win. at least
gaviria was trying to shake things up and disrupt the usual parliamentary sprinting proceedings. can't blame him for trying. i woulda done the same.
ewan has shown an almost uncanny/preternatural ability to slow down to extricate himself from a pinch/jam/closure, reposition and
then close the deal with a tremendous burst that passes everyone in the process. it's like a video game. only thing I've seen like it
was watching barry sanders run the football. just ridiculous. ewan seems to free himself and contend for the win more often than not where
most other sprinters would get shut down and finish in 7th-10th place. ewan gets shut down less than any other premium sprinter w/o a
massive petacchi/supermario/air cav train than i've ever seen.

bora's done a great job eliminating many sprinters over the last climb or two during stages that weren't obvious sprint finishes in the last few years.
sagan obviously hasn't sealed the deal on many of those chances but he's been in the running to do so and that's a testament to his versatility.

slcbob

^ yup, Ewan is great at getting out of those situations. He seems to be pretty darn good at getting into them, too.

Seeing Bernie Eisel in the GCN+ finish course commentary brings back memories of fiercely dominant sprint teams.

diphthong

agreed. sagan is an exception...still has excellent awareness...upper-level speed...top notch climbing ability amongst the sprinters...and supreme road smarts.

he still needs a committed team for support and continued success. we'll see what transpires. essentially, he's modeling during the giro.

gsa103

The other thing that needs to be stated. The entire peloton is absolutely terrified of Sagan. He used to be able to jump into a break and do something, now the entire break just shuts down. The average rider is going, "I'm not going to lose to Sagan...".
And let's be honest, Sagan was NEVER the best sprinter. What made him special is that he could be top 5 in a bunch sprint, and climb with anyone other than the top GC contenders.

WvA/MvdP is really the only other riders with a comparable talent, but they don't quite have the "Sagan effect"...yet.

MinnMan

That sort of played out in Stage 10. B-H set such a torrid pace on the climbs that some of the main sprint competition fell off the back.

diphthong

totally. and these, along with classic-styled finishes, are realistically the only kind of stages/races sagan is capable of winning now. that's still a bunch of stages/races
offered throughout the year...more than your pancake flat, straight as an arrow sprinterfests. sagan is this generation's sean kelly. sagan has expanded the realm of
possibility of victory for a sprinter type. sure, he'll still finish in the top 7-8 of the flat and straight sprinterfests but whom else would you rather have on an uphill sprint finish?
the list gets short pretty quickly.

surak

I think Quick-Step has a stronger team to support Sagan for points classification than Bora (I also think Sagan can no longer do it alone, see how Bennett with Morkov's help scooping up intermediate sprint points neutralized him last TdF), so even without winning sprints there are still good results he could get for the team in the grand tours. But with Quick-Step also investing in Remco as a GC contender, will they want to have a separate focus to go for points in the same race? The team they've got for the Giro is all-in for the GC. If Remco is sent to the TdF in the next years, would they bring Sagan to go for the green at the same time?

MinnMan

[QUOTE=surak;22066223]I think Quick-Step has a stronger team to support Sagan for points classification than Bora (I also think Sagan can no longer do it alone, see how Bennett with Morkov's help scooping up intermediate sprint points neutralized him last TdF), so even without winning sprints there are still good results he could get for the team in the grand tours. But with Quick-Step also investing in Remco as a GC contender, will they want to have a separate focus to go for points in the same race? The team they've got for the Giro is all-in for the GC. If Remco is sent to the TdF in the next years, would they bring Sagan to go for the green at the same time?[/QUOTE]

Maybe not. Sagan seems to have a sweet spot for the Giro. OTOH, it's putting on a show at the Tour that pays the bills for most teams, and winning sprint stages really has been Quick Step's bread and butter. So it's hard for me to imagine them going to the tour without a sprint-stage strategy. That might leave Remco with less support than he would need at the Tour, and couol eventually dislodge him to another team.

MinnMan

van der Poel.

oh, and I dig the "whom"