E1000

C&V users,

I've been research a bit, also within the fora, but I cannot find enough information on how to distinguish the five generations of c(orsa) record delta brake sets from each other.
I believe the very first ones had engraved logos, and generation three had adjustable power levers, next the generations four and five have ergopower levers..

Maybe differently put, I'm looking for a pair of second or third generation, what do I need to look out for specifically, not ending up with a set of fifth gens.

Thanks

PS how do I distinguish the Croce d'Aune from the c Records?

T-Mar

From Campy Only :

"Not counting Croce d'Aune, there were 5 variations of the Delta. The first (recalled) lacked stainless guts ... they corroded quickly and were withdrawn. The second had knurled adjustments and adjustable mechanical advantage levers. The third went to the conical adjusters and slightly improved mech advantage. The fourth went to black rubber trim (and I think the availability of Ergo ... standard levers lost the adjustment and dual routing option). The fifth with yet again more mechanical advantage (and definitely the Ergo option, standard levers were no longer adjustable). Around version 4 or 5 they introduced a second set of thicker orbital spacers so you could run narrow rims."

Gary Fountain

Croce d'Aune had external springs positioned at the rear of the body where the Record models had the springs within the body.

I did avoid answering this thread as the answer to your query is quite complicated and lengthy. T-Mar, as usual, has the answer covered.

E1000

That's about just enough! Thanks for the replies
If I found a set and I'm in doubt, you will hear back from me!

E1000

So if I understood correctly, from left to right is a 3rd (front), 3rd (rear) and 2nd (rear) generation?

Chombi

Campagnolo increased the number of pivots inside the C-Delta brake casing for each generation to increase lever advatage and progresive feel on the levers. I think they started with three pivots then four then the final versions had five.
I've read in some articles out there that Campagnolo eventually abandoned the Delta brake concept when they concluded that there was no way around the change of feel and power that disturbed some riders, that still happened on the later versions of the caliper when the pads wear down, so they went back to sidepulls and new double pivots designs after that for their top of the line brakesets.

spacemanz

Does Campagnolo make long-reach dual-pivot calipers? I like the looks of those Deltas, but I've heard they weren't really all that reliable. Of all the things I want to be reliable, brakes would be pretty high up on the list.

E1000

I've read that the breaking power improved with the 2nd generation, and increasing the distance between brakingpads and rims has proven to increase braking power. However, I cannot answer your long-reach calipers question.

Angry_Monkey

The first two are gen 3 or gen 4, the difference is on the inside - the third is not C-record, they are Croce D'Aune.

Angry_Monkey

I've been wanting to complete my C-Record group from ~1988 for some time. And now I am trying to get back to riding, and can afford to get the bits I didn't get back in high school (but really, really wanted)...

So last weekend I got a lead on two sets of NOS NIB Deltas, and possibly some Cobaltos. I have been researching the Deltas the past couple days, and this is what I've learned.

Prototypes (1984) - only three sets made. Two in private hands, one at Campy. They have a very fragile looking QR at the top.
Generation 1 - Pulled from market due to binding bolt issue. Knurled adjusters and QR on-brake. Non stainless mechanism.
Generation 2 - Same as Gen 1 but with corrected binder.
Generation 3 - O-Ring adjuster, QR in levers, and white bellows. Internal mech is the same as Gen 1/2 but is now stainless.
Generation 4 - Externally the same as Gen 3, but improved internal mech.
Generation 5 - Same as Gen 4, but with black rubber (bellows).

It also seems that the Gen 1/2/3 mech does not brake very well, especially if not set properly. Gen 4/5, when set up properly is great. But when the pads wear excessively, they tend to really bite down on the rims. Maybe too much braking.
Croce D'Aune are identified by the external springs (Corsa Deltas are all internally sprung) and a unique conical adjuster.

So Gen 4 would be my Ideal Delta.

Does that sound right?

Just have to get the middle man to get the seller to drop me an e-mail so we can get together and I can see exactly what he has. And from what I heard this weekend, the asking price would be based on eBay, but my contact couldn't throw a number at me (hell, he didn't even think to ask if the levers were included).
Any advice on what kind of offer I should make on a pair of NOS/NIB Deltas (or the possible Cobaltos), or where I can go for estimates (and not eBay!!).

~Monkey~

E1000

Your description of the generations is in my opinion correct, the internal pivoting system could be added though. Gen 1/2/3 have a 3-way pivoting system inside, Gen 4/5 have a 5-way pivoting. The better braking is claimed to originate from the enhanced pivoting systems.

Values here in The Netherlands for a set NIB Cobalto's is around €400, including levers and cables.
Delta's NIB/NOS difficult to say for me, got a few VVGCs for around 100-180€ a pair. Levers are typically €100ish.
But needless to say, maybe these figures are local and experiencing higher demand right now.

Good luck!

miamijim

When buying delta's go straight to the 5 pivots. Gen 4 or 5 doesnt really matter, spacers can be added to the 4's which essentialy turn them into 5's. proper braking power with Delta's is all in the set-up, they can be difficult to set up, I dont think every good mechanic is capable of doing it let alone most home mechanics. It takes a vast understanding of how caliper brakes work, it's something I've learned over the decades.

Cobaltos are just late generation Super Record calipers with blue pantographing and jeweled dome nuts. Unless your hell bent on the blue jewels you can save $100+ by using regular SR calipers.

And just to nit pick....Cobalto and SR brake lever do NOT have built in quick releases. Delta brake levers have built in quick releases.

Angry_Monkey

Yes, the Colbalto/SRs have the QRs on the breaks themselves, like most caliper brakes. The Colbaltos also have the blue ink in the Campy logo.
The only other difference is that Cobaltos were marketed as C-record - and that is my goal, go complete the C Record group. There are also some issues in the levels related to dual routing and aero cabling.

For me, the Gen 4 is ideal, simply because they will go on a white bike. So it's about the visual effect - which is generally the point of deltas (let's be honest).

ItalianPassion

Hello

I have recently acquired a set of deltas but the cover is scratched. What advice do you have to polish them up without loosing the logo?

toyotus

Hello! I just got a set of 5 pivots Delta today! Can't wait to set it up on my Bianchi.

toyotus

Simichrome polish

a.bandini

I know this is an old thread resurrected, but I recently picked up a bike with what I thought were Deltas, but from seeing the photo comparison above, I reckon are in fact Croce D'Aune. Although it seems like people often just refer to them as Deltas anyway?

Can anyone fill me in on the hierarchy here? Are Deltas considered higher quality than the Croce D'Aune's? Unfortunately the Campy insignia is all but gone, but the brakes work fantastically so far- surprised to hear so much criticism of them online. Though to be fair, I've only been riding with them for a week or so. They certainly are beautiful in any case.